Apply for standard visitor visa while on Tier 5

[rosb]

I have a Tier 5 (sporting and creative) visa valid from May 14 to July 26, in order to work on the TV broadcast of the Cricket World Cup. I was hoping to remain in the UK, staying with my sister (a British citizen) until the end of August. In fact, the return date on my flight ticket is August 31. From what I've read on this forum, I would have to leave the UK in order to apply for a standard visitor visa, in order to remain in the UK once the Tier 5 visa has expired.

My question: During the validity of the Tier 5 visa, can I pop across to Ireland (visa-free for South Africans, oddly) when I have a few days' break in my work schedule, do the application on my second passport (as South Africans, needing visas to travel almost everywhere, we are allowed to hold more than one valid passport), re-enter the UK on the Tier 5 visa, continue working, then pop back to Ireland on July 26 to collect the visitor visa and re-enter the UK on that?

Thanks!

[CR001]

You should apply where you are legally resident, ie not a visitor and you would still need to prove your ties to home country.

If you are granted a visitor, it will cancel your Tier 5 visa and you won't be able to work.

It is not about have two passports, but the same person trying to circumvent the visa rules and applying for a visit visa while holding another visa on a second passport. UKVI will clearly see what you are trying to do.

Note that Ireland and the UK share immigration data.

[rosb]

Thanks CR001 for your quick reply.

Would it be ok to travel to Ireland just before the Tier 5 visa expires and apply there for a visitor visa, then return to the UK once that is granted (the Tier 5 visa having expired by then)? You say, "You should apply where you are legally resident, ie not a visitor and you would still need to prove your ties to home country." but if I'm going to be travelling all the way back home to South Africa, then I'm not going to bother with the visitor visa application and I'll just go home or stay on in Ireland or go to the USA.

Thanks.

[CR001]

You risk a refusal due to a) not being a resident of Ireland and recent evidence of ties to home country; and b) having just been in the UK for a period on a non visitor visa and immediately applying for a visit visa to stay longer.

[rosb]

Hmmm, interesting, thanks.

I suppose this isn't really what this forum is for, but I'm trying to understand the thought process that says, because I've just been in the UK for a legal freelance job, I shouldn't be allowed to go back in to spend some quality time with my sister and maybe do some sightseeing and spend some tourist pounds. It makes complete sense, in my head, that since my expensive international flight ticket from South Africa is being covered by the company that's sponsored my Tier 5 visa, I should take advantage of my physical proximity to my sister to spend some time with her before heading back home. Of course I would provide recent evidence of ties to my home country.

[Frontier Mole]

You can apply for a visit visa from a country you are not resident in.

It is the exception to the rule - sorry CR001

[Frontier Mole]

Hmmm, interesting, thanks.

I suppose this isn't really what this forum is for, but I'm trying to understand the thought process that says, because I've just been in the UK for a legal freelance job, I shouldn't be allowed to go back in to spend some quality time with my sister and maybe do some sightseeing and spend some tourist pounds. It makes complete sense, in my head, that since my expensive international flight ticket from South Africa is being covered by the company that's sponsored my Tier 5 visa, I should take advantage of my physical proximity to my sister to spend some time with her before heading back home. Of course I would provide recent evidence of ties to my home country.

Get it straight in your head - emotions and common sense are not in anyway connected to immigration law.

[Frontier Mole]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... the-policy

Para 28 in the appropriate rules

[Frontier Mole]

28. An applicant for an entry clearance must be outside the United Kingdom and Islands at the time of the application. An application for an entry clearance as a visitor or as a short-term student must be made to any post designated by the Secretary of State to accept such applications. Subject to paragraph 28A, any other application must be made to a post in the country or territory where the applicant is living which has been designated by the Secretary of State to accept applications for entry clearance for that purpose and from that category of applicant. Where there is no such post the applicant must apply to the appropriate designated post outside the country or territory where he is living.

The issue is not about where the visit visa application is made from but the probable lack of evidence a visitor to another country is likely to hold or have with them to support their ties to their home country.

So my ZAF friend take evidence of your ties to the lovely South Africa and some more pocket money for a Premium application fee or a longer stay in Eire while you get your visa approval.

Good luck and any free tickets .... just saying

[Frontier Mole]

When you apply for the visit visa be upfront on your reason why you are returning immediately after your Tier 5 and that you are going home after your visit to your sister.

One small wrinkle - your window to apply - immediately after your last work day and before your visa expiry BUT bear in mind you could technically be denied entry to the UK for your flight home if you are not granted your visit visa. Then you will have a very expensive route from Eire to SA...

But if you are heading to USA as a back stop option then that is not such an issue - as long as that does not involve travel through the UK to USA

[rosb]

Get it straight in your head - emotions and common sense are not in anyway connected to immigration law.

Yup, it's just frustrating that that's the case!

[rosb]

When you apply for the visit visa be upfront on your reason why you are returning immediately after your Tier 5 and that you are going home after your visit to your sister.

One small wrinkle - your window to apply - immediately after your last work day and before your visa expiry BUT bear in mind you could technically be denied entry to the UK for your flight home if you are not granted your visit visa. Then you will have a very expensive route from Eire to SA...

But surely, if I'm prepared to risk hanging around Ireland for just over a month, I could leave the UK on July 26 (date of my Tier 5 visa expiry) and fly to Ireland, and make my application in Dublin. If it gets denied, I just fly back into Heathrow on August 31 and get my flight home without leaving Heathrow. Would they not allow me to enter Heathrow if I'd been denied a visit visa?

But if you are heading to USA as a back stop option then that is not such an issue - as long as that does not involve travel through the UK to USA

The plan was always to fly back in from wherever to Heathrow in order to get my flight home on August 31. I figured I'm in transit and not leaving Heathrow, not going through immigration - though I would be arriving on one ticket and leaving on another, so not sure how that works in terms of fetching my luggage. I guess I could look into changing the routing on the return leg of my journey to avoid coming back into Heathrow (luckily it's on Emirates via Dubai, which probably increases my options of a rerouting).

[rosb]

The issue is not about where the visit visa application is made from but the probable lack of evidence a visitor to another country is likely to hold or have with them to support their ties to their home country.

All such evidence is electronic anyway - at least, it was for the Tier 5 application. So it's all on my laptop.

So my ZAF friend take evidence of your ties to the lovely South Africa and some more pocket money for a Premium application fee or a longer stay in Eire while you get your visa approval

Do you think an application from Eire would take longer than an application from Johannesburg? Everything gets done online, it's only the biometrics that need one's physical presence at an application centre. The application gets sent to the same processing centre, as far as I understand? Shouldn't take more than 2 weeks for a decision one way or the other, surely? I'd happily spend 2 weeks exploring lovely Ireland!

[Frontier Mole]

https://visa-processingtimes.homeoffice ... hs-or-less

[Frontier Mole]

Visa processing times
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1Select the location you are making your application from

Dublin, Irish Republic
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2Select the visa category you would like to see processing times for

Visits Visas
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3Select the visa type you would like to see processing times for

Family Visit (6 months or less)
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UK Visas & Immigration is committed to offering the best possible service and to processing your application as quickly as possible. The tool gives processing time in working days, excluding weekends and public holidays.
Visits Visas
Family Visit (6 months or less)
Most applications are processed within 15 days.
Number of days to process application 2 days 3 days 5 days 10 days 15 days 30 days 60 days 90 days 120 days
% of applications decided 2% 3% 7% 69% 97% 97% 97% 98% 100%
Note: actual processing times may vary depending on a range of factors.
The above data is for all decisions made in Mar 2019

We do not require that you book your travel to the UK before receiving your visa. If you are then unable to travel you may lose costs.

[Frontier Mole]

https://www.gov.uk/transit-visa

Last bit if you need a transit visa, hopefully not

[rosb]

Yes, I read up on the transit visa last night.... I would have to get one, it seems, even if I'm not going through immigration. Unless I'm travelling back from the USA, Canada, Aus or NZ.

But.... here's the thing.... say I land in the UK on August 31 without a transit visa. What can they do? Put me on a flight home? But that's my intention anyway.... to get on my flight home!! I guess there's a risk they could not allow me onto the flight to Heathrow at my point of origin? Or put me on some kind of UK blacklist?

[Frontier Mole]

Pretty sure you will get a visit visa when you apply in Ireland

[The Station Agent]

Have you actually got the UK visa yet? I'm assuming you're a South African national and would therefore require a visa.

Tier 5 CoS holders often get a visa for a month past their last work date on the CoS.

So if your sponsor covered you to the end of July then your visa may run to the end of August anyway, regardless of any visitor visa.

Going to Ireland does not break your UK conditions because it's part of the common travel area. Going to France, Belgium or somewhere like that would count as leaving the UK's common travel area. As you will have heard on here (I couldn't be bothered to read all the back and forth) applying for a second UK visa in a country other than your home country (SA) would probably result in a refusal. In my experience a visit visa must be applied for in the country where you are a resident.

[The Station Agent]

I tried to amend my earlier reply and the system stopped me from doing so. Having read some of the other replies it seems Frontier Mole may have given you different advice and I would bow to their superior knowledge. It's odd your visa was only issued for a few past the World Cup final.

Anyway, ignore (most) of my last post.

[rosb]

It's odd your visa was only issued for a few past the World Cup final.

My understanding is that it's standard you get 14 days after the last work day as stated in the CoS. Since my last work day is July 12 (reserve day for second semi-final - I'm not on the crew doing the final) it makes sense that my visa is valid until July 26. Just as well, since I have tickets to the athletics at the Olympic Stadium on July 20-21!