Foreign Birth Registration

[LesMalouinettes]

As long as your grandfather was born on the island of Ireland prior to 2005 then there will not be a problem. For the purposes of the nationality law of the Republic of Ireland, the section of the island currently administered by the U.K. authorities (Northern Ireland), is considered to be a part of the island of Ireland. Therefore, it does not matter whether your grandfather was born in Belfast or Cork - as long as he was born there before 2005, then he was automatically Irish at birth.

That was how I understood it too. Thank you for confirming <3 The article made me question whether my understanding was correct.

[Sulla]

That was how I understood it too. Thank you for confirming <3 The article made me question whether my understanding was correct.

The article from The Guardian does not deal with people from Northern Ireland being ineligible for Irish citizenship. Quite the reverse. It addresses a certain group of people who were born in the north, but exclusively want to be Irish nationals and not U.K. nationals. Many of these individuals want to continue living and working in the U.K. after Brexit - which has caused headaches.

People who do not live in Northern Ireland or the rest of the U.K. will not be impacted by this situation, which exists due to incongruities between treaty obligations and U.K. domestic law. Those NI born people who simply acquired both the British and Irish passports will likewise be unaffected. The problem will be for people who, on principle, insist on being exclusively Irish, yet continue to live / work in Northern Ireland or the rest of the U.K.

I would assume that very few to no users of the forum will be influenced by this. From all the posts I have read, everyone seems delighted at the prospect of holding two passports. Personally, I would take any extra passport that was offered to me, as long as it did not come with citizenship based taxation or the requirement to renounce other nationalities.

[Jaxx22]

My Grandfather was born in Belfast, NI and I am claiming citizenship by descent. Is anyone in this situation like I am? I'm worried everything will have been for nothing. I was always under the impression that for the purposes of immigration and because of the Good Friday agreement, Eire was considered the one landmass and it didn't matter whether you were born in NI or the republic?

I am applying via a grandparent who was born in Ireland so I am in the same situation as you, also in that I am to be moving to a new address soon and needing the documents sent there when everything is processed and I really don't know who I will need to inform of this - the DFA, the Embassy or both? I just really hope it doesn't confuse things.

I didn't get a reply from the embassy when I requested them to confirm that they received the documents - I did get a slip from the post office showing it was signed for but I just wanted some form of confirmation. I don't know if it is that they also no longer reply to emails for FBR applications or another reason that they didn't reply.

It is nice to see that some people have now received their certificates - congratulations to all.

Going by the 6 month timeline I am now half way (but had no confirmation of receipt yet)

[brawn401]

I'm 100% sure as of the last few months, even if submitting at London counter or via passport express in Glasgow or Liverpool offices would be a min of 65 working days

Are you 100% sure based on your own, or other people’s experience of being a first time applicant using passport express? I am surprised given there have been a number of individuals on the old thread who had used this service as a first time applicant and had benefited from the faster processing time.

https://www.dfa.ie/passporttracking/turnaroundtimes/ Says that paper applications from GB are being turned around via Passport Express in approx 20 days. Granted it does not stipulate whether this is true for first time applications, but it doesn’t say anything about any extended period of time for first time applications via Passport Express either.

In any case, my passport tracker states that my estimated issue date is the 24th, so I’ll be able to tell you my experience with this service later on this month

[Lee2521]

That was how I understood it too. Thank you for confirming <3 The article made me question whether my understanding was correct.

The article from The Guardian does not deal with people from Northern Ireland being ineligible for Irish citizenship. Quite the reverse. It addresses a certain group of people who were born in the north, but exclusively want to be Irish nationals and not U.K. nationals. Many of these individuals want to continue living and working in the U.K. after Brexit - which has caused headaches.

People who do not live in Northern Ireland or the rest of the U.K. will not be impacted by this situation, which exists due to incongruities between treaty obligations and U.K. domestic law. Those NI born people who simply acquired both the British and Irish passports will likewise be unaffected. The problem will be for people who, on principle, insist on being exclusively Irish, yet continue to live / work in Northern Ireland or the rest of the U.K.

I would assume that very few to no users of the forum will be influenced by this. From all the posts I have read, everyone seems delighted at the prospect of holding two passports. Personally, I would take any extra passport that was offered to me, as long as it did not come with citizenship based taxation or the requirement to renounce other nationalities.

If a person in Northern Ireland has Irish citizenship then they have a right to live and work in NI and Great Britain without having to apply for British citizenship or any residency requirements also vice versa for British citizens whom live and work in the Republic of Ireland regardless of brexit.

If you value dual citizenship avoid Germany, Austria, Japan, Panama, Netherlands (for time being) do not allow dual citizenship .

Taxes for US citizens earnings abroad above $100,000 have to be paid to the IRS, because of this a lot Americans have renounced their citizenship and paid for citizenship of a carribean nation to avoid this.

Having another passport is definitely a bonus and a privilege

[Rbs3]

On the NI issue and Guardian article, the position of those in the North is very serious. Under the GFA, those born in the North can identify as British, Irish or both. With the UK leaving the EU, those in the North looking to exercise treaty rights as EU/Irish citizens - for example, a right to have close family members live with you such as non-EEA spouse - are vulnerable because the UK authorities assume such persons are British (and therefore need to apply for visas for non-EEA family members under British law, not EU Treaty). This is arguably against the letter and spirit of the GFA, which protects the right to choose your identity and citizenship. Of course, the GFA never envisaged Brexit. But I wonder: what would have been agreed had the question been asked in 1998, that the UK or Ire would leave the EU? I would suggest nothing less than full recognition of EU rights for those in the North, along with no customs threshold and regulatory alignment as recognised under the backstop protocol.

[Lee2521]

On the NI issue and Guardian article, the position of those in the North is very serious. Under the GFA, those born in the North can identify as British, Irish or both. With the UK leaving the EU, those in the North looking to exercise treaty rights as EU/Irish citizens - for example, a right to have close family members live with you such as non-EEA spouse - are vulnerable because the UK authorities assume such persons are British (and therefore need to apply for visas for non-EEA family members under British law, not EU Treaty). This is arguably against the letter and spirit of the GFA, which protects the right to choose your identity and citizenship. Of course, the GFA never envisaged Brexit. But I wonder: what would have been agreed had the question been asked in 1998, that the UK or Ire would leave the EU? I would suggest nothing less than full recognition of EU rights for those in the North, along with no customs threshold and regulatory alignment as recognised under the backstop protocol.

The EU doesn't as far as I know give you any automatic rights for your spouse to join you and I am married to a non EU - EEA citizen, My wife has had to applied for 3 visas just so she can settle in the UK plus everytime we go to the Schengen area that's another visa and 3 visas in total now also to visit Ireland that would be another visa.

The only rights of a EU citizen married to a non EU citizen is that you can't be stopped from living in another EU country if the spouse has been living a EU state for 3 or 4 years, this is the only one rule I know of .

I can't see how Northern Ireland would have any EU treaty rights as it's part of the UK and once the UK leaves the EU it will lose it's treatyrights and would only have British rights until it becomes united with the Republic of Ireland

[CR001]

On the NI issue and Guardian article, the position of those in the North is very serious. Under the GFA, those born in the North can identify as British, Irish or both. With the UK leaving the EU, those in the North looking to exercise treaty rights as EU/Irish citizens - for example, a right to have close family members live with you such as non-EEA spouse - are vulnerable because the UK authorities assume such persons are British (and therefore need to apply for visas for non-EEA family members under British law, not EU Treaty). This is arguably against the letter and spirit of the GFA, which protects the right to choose your identity and citizenship. Of course, the GFA never envisaged Brexit. But I wonder: what would have been agreed had the question been asked in 1998, that the UK or Ire would leave the EU? I would suggest nothing less than full recognition of EU rights for those in the North, along with no customs threshold and regulatory alignment as recognised under the backstop protocol.

The EU doesn't as far as I know give you any automatic rights for your spouse to join you and I am married to a non EU - EEA citizen, My wife has had to applied for 3 visas just so she can settle in the UK plus everytime we go to the Schengen area that's another visa and 3 visas in total now also to visit Ireland that would be another visa.

The only rights of a EU citizen married to a non EU citizen is that you can't be stopped from living in another EU country if the spouse has been living a EU state for 3 or 4 years, this is the only one rule I know of .

I can't see how Northern Ireland would have any EU treaty rights as it's part of the UK and once the UK leaves the EU it will lose it's treatyrights and would only have British rights until it becomes united with the Republic of Ireland

You are slightly incorrect in your interpretation.

Non EU spouses have automatic rights in the UK if the EU spouse is not British (other rules apply here if British and have lived i another EU state). A Spouse of an Irish citizen in any of the 4 UK countries has a right under the EU directive provided the Irish spouse is a qualified person. Note that EU treaty rights exclude EU citizens living and working in the country they are born in and hold a nationality (French in France, German in Germany etc). In this respect, it is always the domestic immigration rules that apply, unless the EU national has exercised treaty rights in another EU state and returned to their country under the Surinder Singh route.

[Lee2521]

On the NI issue and Guardian article, the position of those in the North is very serious. Under the GFA, those born in the North can identify as British, Irish or both. With the UK leaving the EU, those in the North looking to exercise treaty rights as EU/Irish citizens - for example, a right to have close family members live with you such as non-EEA spouse - are vulnerable because the UK authorities assume such persons are British (and therefore need to apply for visas for non-EEA family members under British law, not EU Treaty). This is arguably against the letter and spirit of the GFA, which protects the right to choose your identity and citizenship. Of course, the GFA never envisaged Brexit. But I wonder: what would have been agreed had the question been asked in 1998, that the UK or Ire would leave the EU? I would suggest nothing less than full recognition of EU rights for those in the North, along with no customs threshold and regulatory alignment as recognised under the backstop protocol.

The EU doesn't as far as I know give you any automatic rights for your spouse to join you and I am married to a non EU - EEA citizen, My wife has had to applied for 3 visas just so she can settle in the UK plus everytime we go to the Schengen area that's another visa and 3 visas in total now also to visit Ireland that would be another visa.

The only rights of a EU citizen married to a non EU citizen is that you can't be stopped from living in another EU country if the spouse has been living a EU state for 3 or 4 years, this is the only one rule I know of .

I can't see how Northern Ireland would have any EU treaty rights as it's part of the UK and once the UK leaves the EU it will lose it's treatyrights and would only have British rights until it becomes united with the Republic of Ireland

You are slightly incorrect in your interpretation.

Non EU spouses have automatic rights in the UK if the EU spouse is not British (other rules apply here if British and have lived i another EU state). A Spouse of an Irish citizen in any of the 4 UK countries has a right under the EU directive provided the Irish spouse is a qualified person. Note that EU treaty rights exclude EU citizens living and working in the country they are born in and hold a nationality (French in France, German in Germany etc). In this respect, it is always the domestic immigration rules that apply, unless the EU national has exercised treaty rights in another EU state and returned to their country under the Surinder Singh route.

Their movement should be easier but not automatic and there is different rules, conditions as mentioned in this link

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r ... dex_en.htm

Wouldn't an Irish citizen be treated like a British citizen in the UK in regards to their spouse joining them in the UK ?

My wife needs a visa to visit Ireland and I have British citizenship and it will be the same when I have Irish citizenship too from what I have read so this is not automatic rights as far as I am concerned

[CR001]

On the NI issue and Guardian article, the position of those in the North is very serious. Under the GFA, those born in the North can identify as British, Irish or both. With the UK leaving the EU, those in the North looking to exercise treaty rights as EU/Irish citizens - for example, a right to have close family members live with you such as non-EEA spouse - are vulnerable because the UK authorities assume such persons are British (and therefore need to apply for visas for non-EEA family members under British law, not EU Treaty). This is arguably against the letter and spirit of the GFA, which protects the right to choose your identity and citizenship. Of course, the GFA never envisaged Brexit. But I wonder: what would have been agreed had the question been asked in 1998, that the UK or Ire would leave the EU? I would suggest nothing less than full recognition of EU rights for those in the North, along with no customs threshold and regulatory alignment as recognised under the backstop protocol.

The EU doesn't as far as I know give you any automatic rights for your spouse to join you and I am married to a non EU - EEA citizen, My wife has had to applied for 3 visas just so she can settle in the UK plus everytime we go to the Schengen area that's another visa and 3 visas in total now also to visit Ireland that would be another visa.

The only rights of a EU citizen married to a non EU citizen is that you can't be stopped from living in another EU country if the spouse has been living a EU state for 3 or 4 years, this is the only one rule I know of .

I can't see how Northern Ireland would have any EU treaty rights as it's part of the UK and once the UK leaves the EU it will lose it's treatyrights and would only have British rights until it becomes united with the Republic of Ireland

You are slightly incorrect in your interpretation.

Non EU spouses have automatic rights in the UK if the EU spouse is not British (other rules apply here if British and have lived i another EU state). A Spouse of an Irish citizen in any of the 4 UK countries has a right under the EU directive provided the Irish spouse is a qualified person. Note that EU treaty rights exclude EU citizens living and working in the country they are born in and hold a nationality (French in France, German in Germany etc). In this respect, it is always the domestic immigration rules that apply, unless the EU national has exercised treaty rights in another EU state and returned to their country under the Surinder Singh route.

Their movement should be easier but not automatic and there is different rules, conditions as mentioned in this link

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r ... dex_en.htm

Wouldn't an Irish citizen be treated like a British citizen in the UK in regards to their spouse joining them in the UK ?

My wife needs a visa to visit Ireland and I have British citizenship and it will be the same when I have Irish citizenship too from what I have read so this is not automatic rights as far as I am concerned

No, an Irish citizen in the UK is an EU citizen however Irish citizens are considered settled from date of arrival in the UK, but this has nothing to do with the EU regs but the agreement between Ireland and the UK.

EU treaty rights and regulations apply to being in an EU state that you are not a citizen of. In the UK, if you are dual Irish/British, to use the cheaper EU route, most have renounced their British citizenship.

[Kellie18]

So still waiting on my passport.
I submitted it on 9th feb and it was receive in the 14th.
Estimated issue date was 11th March.
Progression bar is still 3/4 of the way and application is still being processed.
Hopefully I will get it around the middle of this month but no idea at this rate.

[spiderplants]

If you value dual citizenship avoid Germany, Austria, Japan, Panama, Netherlands (for time being) do not allow dual citizenship .

Germany allows dual citizenship if both citizenships are EU or Swiss. Technically, Spain doesn't allow dual citizenship but, I believe, doesn't actually take any action against it, in practice.

[Sulla]

So still waiting on my passport.
I submitted it on 9th feb and it was receive in the 14th.
Estimated issue date was 11th March.
Progression bar is still 3/4 of the way and application is still being processed.
Hopefully I will get it around the middle of this month but no idea at this rate.

Did you submit via Passport Express from the UK or did you use the standard paper application route? There has been some discussion lately about how rapid the express service actually is for 1st time adult applicants in the UK. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I am in a pretty similar position to you as regards the passport tracking bar. There are now 7 days of progress remaining before it reaches the end. So far, all it has ever said is "processing application."

[Kellie18]

So still waiting on my passport.
I submitted it on 9th feb and it was receive in the 14th.
Estimated issue date was 11th March.
Progression bar is still 3/4 of the way and application is still being processed.
Hopefully I will get it around the middle of this month but no idea at this rate.

Did you submit via Passport Express from the UK or did you use the standard paper application route? There has been some discussion lately about how rapid the express service actually is for 1st time adult applicants in the UK. Any feedback would be appreciated.

I am in a pretty similar position to you as regards the passport tracking bar. There are now 7 days of progress remaining before it reaches the end. So far, all it has ever said is "processing application."

Glad to see someone else is on a similar level!
I submitted the standard paper way straight to the address on the application form in Ireland. I’m down the south in London so I couldn’t use passport express. I’m hoping to get the passport this month but I also thought that last month. Just a waiting game I guess.

[Sulla]

Glad to see someone else is on a similar level!

We may be at a similar stage in terms of the progress bar, but our applications are a bit different with regard to their origins. I applied in mainland China through the Beijing embassy on March 27th. Processing times ought to be around 6 weeks - based on what I was told by the official at the time I submitted in person. With that said, I have little faith that I am going to receive the passport before late May / early June. I fully expect to see the progress bar reach its end and then stick there for some time.

I am currently in Turkey and I am in the final stages of citizenship application here - started March 31st. The agent I am working with estimates that my wife and I should get the Turkish passport by the end of May. It will be interesting to see which passport materializes first. My money is on the Turkish authorities. The experience here has been smooth and efficient. Even better than St Kitts.

[Sotyrockz04]

Updating my timeline, I see a few conversations inquiring about passports

FBR Application
* Application submitted online and paid fee: 25-Mar-18
* Shipped application directly to Dublin: 04-Apr-18
* Email confirming receipt in "Dublin" 09-Apr-18
* Emailed FBR and was told application were taking 4-5 months 27-Jun-18
* Entered onto FBR: 17-Aug-18
* Email confirming FBR entry / "you are an Irish citizen as of 17-Aug-18": 22-Aug-18
* Certificate Recieved - 04-Sep-18

Passport application
*Mailed application to New York: 13-Feb-19
*Application showed up on DFA Tracking: 03-Mar-19
*Estimated issue date: 29-Mar-19 (original brexit day!)
*Passport printed: 02-May-19
*passport Dispatched: 03-May-19

Passport was dispatched exactly 2 months after the application showed up on the DFA website and was no where near the estimated issue date. I spoke to Live Chat 1 time during the process and the gentleman stated that paper applications are taking 2 months.

[Lee2521]

Those emails are shut down you should defiantly call first thing Tuesday morning the lines would be open at 9 am, even after checking and seeing your original passport with the rest of your documents it would be kept hold of until the end of the application process unless you contact directly requesting it back via the phones.

I tried to call the FBR this afternoon but couldn't get through and you can't even wait to speak to anyone but I will try again and more earlier if I can tomorrow or Friday

[Sulla]

Passport was dispatched exactly 2 months after the application showed up on the DFA website and was no where near the estimated issue date. I spoke to Live Chat 1 time during the process and the gentleman stated that paper applications are taking 2 months.

If mine is dispatched 2 months after it appeared in the system, then that would be May 27th. Less than 2 weeks over the estimated time. It may happen, but I doubt it. My FBR experience (4 month printing and postage delay) has not imbued me with a great deal of confidence in the DFA's ability to get things done speedily or even meet the service times they themselves set.

I will launch a live chat on May 15th in the very likely event that the progress bar reaches its end and yet no progress has actually been made. Perhaps I will wait for 20 minutes in a queue only to be told that Webchat is now only available for something else and all passport queries should be made by phone? Sadly, it's not outwith the realm of possibility.

[Jacqui309]

I applied for FBR over a year ago. I answered follow questions ages ago and haven't heard any more. I tried to call to see what was happening but the number says they are no longer accepting calls. Is there anyway of contacting. The caseworker I had has moved on and I have no other contact details. Can anyone help. TIA

[Sulla]

I applied for FBR over a year ago. I answered follow questions ages ago and haven't heard any more. I tried to call to see what was happening but the number says they are no longer accepting calls. Is there anyway of contacting. The caseworker I had has moved on and I have no other contact details. Can anyone help. TIA

People on this board have called the FBR section fairly recently. It appears to still be viable. Calling them is now the only option. E-mail and webchat have long since been removed. It can be torturous to actually get through on the phone, but that is now the only avenue for communication left open to us.

+353 1 671 1633

https://www.dfa.ie/about-us/contact-us/ ... tizenship/

[Jacqui309]

Unfortunately that number no longer takes calls hence my question about an alternative way of contacting. The only option given is for urgent passport queries and that is an email.

[Sulla]

Unfortunately that number no longer takes calls hence my question about an alternative way of contacting. The only option given is for urgent passport queries and that is an email.

Jacqui

I just called it myself and it still works for me. It just says "unfortunately due to the high volume of calls, we are unable to answer you at the moment" when the lines are clogged - which is basically all the time. At other (luckier) times you will get "welcome to the passport office" and some language options. The number does still function. It is just that 9 times out of 10, you will hear "unfortunately,...." and rue the cost of a wasted international phone call.

[Jacqui309]

I have emailed the embassy in London via foreign.london@dfa.ie to see if I can get a response. Applying over a year ago does seem longer than most.

[Lee2521]

I have emailed the embassy in London via foreign.london@dfa.ie to see if I can get a response. Applying over a year ago does seem longer than most.

Jacqui

I have tried calling the number for 2 days now and I didn't get a chance to speak to anyone but I have sent an e-mail today to the irishembassylondon@dfa.ie and previously I had sent an e-mail to foreign address's like yourself but got no reply

[Lee2521]

I have emailed the embassy in London via foreign.london@dfa.ie to see if I can get a response. Applying over a year ago does seem longer than most.

Jacqui

I have tried calling the number for 2 days now and I didn't get a chance to speak to anyone but I have sent an e-mail today to the irishembassylondon@dfa.ie and previously I had sent an e-mail to the foreign.dfa address's like yourself but got no reply