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Tenancy Agreement Issue - resolved

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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kck9
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Tenancy Agreement Issue - resolved

Post by kck9 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:22 pm

Dear Friends,

My tenancy agreement contains this point under Terms and conditions section.

Do you this this create any problems to apply for a HSMP dependant visa. I am on HSMP and this application is for my wife.

The whole house is on my name and it is a 2 bed room house. I just took the house for rent recently.

The wording is like this!!!
The Tenants will not assign, sublet, charge or part with or share possession or occupation of the property
I am just bit confused now...
Last edited by kck9 on Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:30 pm

It won't be a problem. That's a standard statement in all tenancy agreements.

But if there is a specific clause in your tenancy agreement restricting you from accommodating any additional people in the property without owner's permission then you'll need a written approval from him.

regards
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kck9
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Post by kck9 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:55 pm

sushdmehta wrote:It won't be a problem. That's a standard statement in all tenancy agreements.

But if there is a specific clause in your tenancy agreement restricting you from accommodating any additional people in the property without owner's permission then you'll need a written approval from him.

regards
Hello Sush,

There is a point like
The Tenant will not without the landlord’s prior consent allow or keep any pet or any kind of animal at the property
But there is nothing about accommodating person.

Unfortunately they refused my wife's application showing the point that

"The Tenants will not assign, sublet, charge or part with or share possession or occupation of the property"

Could you please let me know if I could do something about this. Can anyone tell me how to appeal or make a complaint regarding this.

Thank you

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:31 pm

kck9 wrote:The Tenants will not assign, sublet, charge or part with or share possession or occupation of the property"
Hmmm ... on closer look, the text in bold is where the problem lies and I believe ECO had an objection to this 'coz your partner will be travelling to UK for a permanent (or long-term) stay and not for a short / temporary *visit*.

Get your landlord to write a letter that he has no objection with you accommodating your immediate family and friends. Since it is a 2 bedroom house, he shouldn't have a problem in allowing you to accommodate 3 more members in the house (you+3 more).

Or get him to remove this bit from the agreement altogether. How can he compel you to live alone and not share accommodation with your family members (or whoever you deem fit) when you're paying rent for the entire property?

regards
Last edited by geriatrix on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

kck9
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Post by kck9 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:29 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Hmmm ... on closer look, the text in bold is where the problem lies.

Get your landlord to write a letter that he has no objection with you accommodating your immediate family and friends. Since it is a 2 bedroom house, he shouldn't have a problem in allowing you to accommodate 3 more members in the house (you+3 more).

Or get him to remove this bit from the agreement altogether. How can he compel you to live alone and not share accommodation with your family members (or whoever you deem fit) when you're paying rent for the entire property?

regards
Hello Sush,

Thnk u for your quick response....

I have got few doubts in this regard...

I dont mind requesting the amendments in the tenancy agreement and I dont think there will be any issue with the owner as well as he will be happy to say so..bcas initially i moved into this house just because i am starting a family and owner knows the reason very well....

But I want to know
1. can I appeal this decision...(rejection letter says tht i can, but just wanna knw any positive results thru appeals)
2. if I am appealing can I send the new/additional documents (as I am intending to send the amended tenancy agreement)
3.do you have any idea how long the appeal process take...
4.If I appeal and while I am waiting for the decision, can we make 2nd application....

sorry for lot of questions....

can u pls help in projecting the APPEAL PROCESS and if possible any wordings for my owner to say....

Thank you

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:38 pm

AFAIK, you cannot provide additional documents in an appeal. Unfortunately, I have no idea of the appeal / administrative review process.

Best that you request landlord to sign a new tenancy agreement without the words *not allowed to share possession or occupation* in there. Else, request him to write a letter (to whom it may concern) stating that he is the owner of the property in question and he has not objection that you, as the tenant, accommodate additional people in the property as you deem fit. Let him put a limit to the number of additional people if he wants to, as he will be well in his right to do so. For a 2 bedroom, 1 living room house, 5 people can share the accommodation without a problem.

regards
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naveenmehta20
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Post by naveenmehta20 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:42 pm

well why not simply have your wife's name added in the agreement...this way she becomes equivalent to urslef in this matter and hence crystal clear...

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Post by geriatrix » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:56 pm

naveenmehta20 wrote:well why not simply have your wife's name added in the agreement...this way she becomes equivalent to urslef in this matter and hence crystal clear...
Well, your suggestion serves the short-term objective for sure ... provided the owner agrees to OP's wife becoming a *tenant* when she is not in UK herself.

But the options I suggested earlier will enable OP to sponsor (temporary or permanent) accommodation for any family member / friend / acquaintance who might wish to come to UK.

When something needs to be done, why not do the thing which offers long-term benefits. :wink:

regards
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Post by naveenmehta20 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:10 pm

buddy my suggestion a add on to urs...not instead of what u suggested.

this way she can later have bank acount, NI , lib card etc etc...also.

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Post by geriatrix » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:18 pm

naveenmehta20 wrote:well why not simply have your wife's name added in the agreement...
Maybe I missed noting the hidden *in addition* essence in your post.

But yes, adding wife's name as a joint tenant *and* getting the letter from landlod / modifying the clause in tenancy agreement will go a long way.

regards
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kck9
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Post by kck9 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:30 pm

hey,
thank you for your reply guys....Yes I will request the letter from owner ammeding the terms..

But adding my wife's name to the contract is not a good option for me as she need to sign the contract if we are adding the name...

Letting agents generally requests everyone on the contract need to sign the agreement.

Anyway, can you pls let me know if there are any other (apart from the discussion made) wordings specifically that you want me to point in the letter....

Can anyone tell me if any person had success in appeals....

Actually the point is this is general format of the terms and condition
The Tenants will not assign, sublet, charge or part with or share possession or occupation of the property
I have seen so many other terms for past 5 years in this country...

This iterates a meaning that you cannot generate any additional income or you can use this property commercially...

This is the only idea when they entered this point in the terms..i think they misunderstood the wording....thats why i want to try for appealing as the rejection letter mentioned that
You have not sought to enclose any correspondence from the landlord agreeing to any changes in the terms of the Tenancy Agreement. Neither have you sought to enclose any documentation regarding accommodation for you and/or your husband in any alternative property
Also this is the appeal form

http://www.ait.gov.uk/Documents/FormsGu ... T2form.pdf

It says that we can attach any evidence to the form..he is also allowing some of the documents to send later date that are not yet available to you...but there is no wording mentioned that we should not add any other new or additional document....

By the way we used VAF2 and VAF2 or in its guidance there is no place where they request for applicant or sponsors address in UK..even in the checklist there is no point about asking proof of accommodation...

These are the only checklist docs they requested...

All applicants
A valid travel document or passport
One passport sized photograph. This must not be more than 6 months old. (Please see photograph box at the beginning of the form for more details)
The appropriate fee
Evidence to support the information you have given (see below for more details)

Personal Details section
Unless single, please provide evidence of your marital status e.g. marriage or civil partnership certificate
You may be asked to present written notification from the child’s parent or legal guardian that they consent to the child’s visit
The official record of any conviction(s), detailing the crime(s) you were convicted of and the sentence(s) you received

Employment

Work Permit Holder
Evidence of your job offer and employer
Evidence of qualifications relevant to the type of work you wish to do Evidence of your English language ability if English is not your first language
Your work permit
Highly Skilled Migrant
Evidence of any job offers
Evidence of qualifications relevant to the type of work you wish to do Evidence of your English Language ability if English is not your first language

Working Holiday Maker
A planned itinerary, if held
Evidence of money available to you for your visit

Dependant of a Worker
Evidence of your sponsor’s permission to live in the UK
Evidence of the work your sponsor is doing or is going to do in the UK

Finances and employment
Evidence of your current employment/self employment/occupation/work Evidence of your total monthly income from all sources of employment or occupation after tax
Evidence of any income from other sources e.g. friends, family, savings, property etc
If they think that accommodation is important, they have to enter that point in the checklist...isn't it.....

Am just not happy with this at all........

any ideas please

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Post by geriatrix » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:42 pm

AFAIK, appeal is a time-consuming process and I think you might be better off submitting a fresh application again. But since I am not absolutely sure, don't take my word for it.

My recommendation always is that one should read in advance the guidance (in whole) for the visa category one is applying for. The information leaflets are extactly what they are - just leaflets - and do not provide you with *complete* guidance. The entry clearance guidelines are available on UKVisas website. Please read chapter 9 which deals with maintenance and accommodation requirements. In particular, section 9.6 - maintenance and accommodation: Entry as spouse/partner/ civil partner.

You might find this useful.

regards
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kck9
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Post by kck9 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:16 am

Hello sushdmehta,

Thank you for your response. I went through the whole guidance before I sent the documents to my wife.

But the problem was, whenever I called VFS, they use to comeup with different set of forms (dont know whether we need to use VAF2 or VAF10), everytime they use to say different fees, different requirements about maintanance of funds...

I am on old HSMP and now my wife has to apply for HSMP dependant, but sometimes they say Tier1 dependant requirements...

so it was a lot of confusion and I asked my wife to take both VAF2 and VAF10. They considered VAF2....

But the reason they rejected was so funny that in a 3 living room house only one person can stay.... :(

Anyway, did someone appealed against the decision before...

Can you pls tell me the time frame...n the result...

Thank you

kck9
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Post by kck9 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:40 am

Hello friends,

Thanks for your responses...Manage to appeal and received the immediate result...They overturned the initial refusal decision....My wife dependant application is approved....... :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol:

It just took 5 working days to overturn their decision when I appealed...

Thnx for your support.

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Post by geriatrix » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:49 pm

What was your argument for appeal? Might help others in similar situation.

regards
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UKraj
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Post by UKraj » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:42 pm

Dear All,

Very happy to see a forum like this.

I have got my HSMP approval letter a month back and preparing for EC application. I have maintained personal funds required for more than 3 months. No issues that side.

Next requirement is proof of accommodation.
My question is: how important is this requirement? Does everyone submit this proof? I have contacted a friend UK who is willing to send invitation letter, tenant agreement copy, utility bills, payslips, driving license copy and bank statements.

However, there is a statement in his Tenant agreement that says

“Not to carry on or permit to be carried on upon the Property any profession, trade or business and only to use the Property as a private residence for the Tenant and the Tenant’s spouse or partner and children.â€

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Post by geriatrix » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:25 pm

Not to carry on or permit to be carried on upon the Property any profession, trade or business and only to use the Property as a private residence for the Tenant and the Tenant’s spouse or partner and children.
Makes it clear that your friend cannot (legally)accommodate you in his residence.

Make an effort to search the forum for answers already available related to your query. Hint - use "hotel" as keyword.

regards
Life isn't fair, but you can be!

kck9
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Post by kck9 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:54 pm

sushdmehta wrote:What was your argument for appeal? Might help others in similar situation.

regards
I just explained them the actual meaning of the terms. Also for their reference I added a letter from landlord.

Actually the terms was misinterpreted by ECO as explained before...I explained that clearly and ECM agreed for that....

There is no way someone can stop to bring their wife into the house...thats the legal point which i have explained...

thnx for your support....

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Help require for dependent visa ( Tier 1)

Post by rajesh1319 » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:42 am

Hello All,

I am working in the UK since last 2 year.

I convert my WP into Tier 1 General (Through consultant) in April 2008. My wife has Tier 1 dependent visa since April 2008. .

In the month of Aug, we are blessed with a baby boy in India and I want to do Tier1 dependent for my son.

Does Tenancy agreement is a compulsory document.

Or latest utility bill is enough for tier1 dependent visa application.

If I send latest council tax bill , utility bills ( which contain my name as well wife’s name) ,will it be enough rather than sending tenancy agreement because my tenancy agreement us just finish and my landlord is out of country.

Thanks
Raj

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