Final advice enquiry.

[lastchomikain]

Hello everyone,

I’m looking for a piece of advice as entire Brexit mess and what I read in the regulation is really concerning me. I’m EU citizen with pre-settled status, working full time. My fiancé is Mexican, currently on tourist visa, unemployed. We’ve met during her studies and are in relationship for almost one year. She needed to leave the UK as her student visa expired in March, since this time we’re in permanent contact. We went to Poland together couple of times, she’s met my parent s and friends, was visiting me in UK, I went to Mexico to meet her friends and family. We’ve decided to get married and properly live together. We think about applying for EU Settlement Scheme Family Permit after the marriage in September (we’re getting married in Mexico). My concern is that HO can accuse us for marriage of convenience and refuse the application. During our relationship, however we were spending most time together we’ve never rented a flat together and do not have bills on the same name. My flatmate can confirm she was staying with us, but as it was done within her tourist visa I didn’t report it to council or renting agency.
Evidence we'll be able provide are:

• Marriage certificate.
  
  Digitally marked pictures with dates and places for all the relationship +pictures from the wedding
  ceremony.
  
  Call and conversation (WhatsApp) logs.
  
  Confirmation letters from family, friends people who recognize us as a genuine couple.
  
  Flights tickets.

I found this on https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r ... dex_en.htm

Staying abroad for up to 3 months

Your non-EU spouse, children and grandchildren may stay with you in another EU country. If they stay for less than 3 months, all they need is a valid passport and sometimes, depending on the country they are from, an entry visa.

Equal treatment

During their stay, your spouse, children and grandchildren should be treated as nationals of the host country, notably regarding access to employment, pay, benefits facilitating access to work and enrolment in schools.

Even if they are staying as tourists, they should not, for example, have to pay higher fees to visit museums or when buying transport tickets.

Exception: If you are a pensioner, some EU countries may decide not to grant you and your family income support for the first 3 months in that country.

Does it apply to UK as well? Maybe it's better to apply after these 3 months?

We’re also thinking about going to solicitor and ask them for advice. Is it worth trying in your opinion or they’ll just take our money for something we can do ourselves?
If you or you know anyone who was in similar situation please share your experience and advice.
Best regards

[Zerubbabel]

Hello

I am not a solicitor but I have seen a few in my life. Some are worthless and have no idea what they are talking about. Few are amazing and can help you out from the most desperate situations.

I am not a solicitor, but from what I observed, is that you are better off getting a marriage in the UK. There is a sort of unspoken rule in all EU countries including the UK: a marriage certificate from the country itself is much stronger and effective than the same from a remote country. They can't question it.

So if you can face the immigration and get a spouse visa for her now, that would be perfect.

If you can afford it, always go for a solicitor because they are so many mistakes and pitfalls in the process. It's very hard to recover from some mistakes but a solicitor can help you avoid them all together.

[kamoe]

If you can afford it, always go for a solicitor because they are so many mistakes and pitfalls in the process. It's very hard to recover from some mistakes but a solicitor can help you avoid them all together.

I disagree.

In general terms, going to a solicitor or not depends on two factors:

1. The complexity of your application. Is it something within immigration rules, where there are clear, unambiguous guidelines you can follow; or is your case something completely atypical?

2. How comfortable are you in general with paperwork, organization skills, and detail-oriented work. Some people are naturally good at this and even enjoy it very much; some people, on the other hand, feel sick at the sight of an invoice and can't do even their personal expenses without help.

A bad solicitor can create a lot of unnecessary trouble. You effectively hand them all the control, communications, and timeline of your application. If the answer to the above is that your case is typical and that you are normally comfortable handling paperwork, then a solicitor is likely an unnecessary waste fo money.

[kamoe]

My concern is that HO can accuse us for marriage of convenience and refuse the application.

If you provide strong proof this will not be an issue. Sham marriages trigger obvious red flags in a combination of suspicious circumstances (illegal stays, and couples knowing each other for a very short period of time); simply getting married abroad then applying for a FP is not a red flag on its own. If you are consistent and take the time to prepare your application you should be fine.

During our relationship, however we were spending most time together we’ve never rented a flat together and do not have bills on the same name.

Cohabitation is NOT a requirement for married couples. This is only a requirement for unmarried couples. Plans for FUTURE cohabitation, however, are important.

My flatmate can confirm she was staying with us, but as it was done within her tourist visa I didn’t report it to council or renting agency.

As explained earlier, not an issue. A letter from her vouching for you as a couple, mentioning when she met you as a couple, and that she knows you have spent time together in the flat, would be appropriate.

Evidence we'll be able provide are:

• Marriage certificate.
  
  Digitally marked pictures with dates and places for all the relationship +pictures from the wedding
  ceremony.
  
  Call and conversation (WhatsApp) logs.
  
  Confirmation letters from family, friends people who recognize us as a genuine couple.
  
  Flights tickets.

Good, this looks strong. Two things:

1) Choose pictures of both sets of parents together (both of you plus both sets of parents at the wedding would be ideal).
2) Be very selective with the choice of social media messages you share. Don't drown them with hundreds of lines. No more than 5 short and meaningful messages, spread evenly across the period you have been in a couple, would suffice.

I found this on https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/r ... dex_en.htm

Staying abroad for up to 3 months

Your non-EU spouse, children and grandchildren may stay with you in another EU country. If they stay for less than 3 months, all they need is a valid passport and sometimes, depending on the country they are from, an entry visa.

Equal treatment

During their stay, your spouse, children and grandchildren should be treated as nationals of the host country, notably regarding access to employment, pay, benefits facilitating access to work and enrolment in schools.

Even if they are staying as tourists, they should not, for example, have to pay higher fees to visit museums or when buying transport tickets.

Exception: If you are a pensioner, some EU countries may decide not to grant you and your family income support for the first 3 months in that country.

Does it apply to UK as well? Maybe it's better to apply after these 3 months?

I'm not sure what you are understanding from the above, or why, but it doesn't really describe any benefit or advantage of not applying for a Family Permit before you arrive in the UK as a couple. It merely describes the right your wife should have in the unfortunate event she was to arrive in a EU country without the appropriate EEA document (never the ideal case).

You could, in theory, not apply for any Family Permit for her, and demand an ink stamp on arrival to the UK showing your marriage certificate, but... the proper way to do things is always to apply for a Family Permit before you travel, and there is no real reason not to do this unless you find yourself in need of travel in emergency...

[lastchomikain]

I am not a solicitor, but from what I observed, is that you are better off getting a marriage in the UK. There is a sort of unspoken rule in all EU countries including the UK: a marriage certificate from the country itself is much stronger and effective than the same from a remote country. They can't question it.

So if you can face the immigration and get a spouse visa for her now, that would be perfect.

Hi Zerubbabel,
The process with getting married in UK is quite complex, first of all Mexico doesn't issue document required to get married abroad. Court trial is needed to get permission to do that. Costs of that, processing times, all the flights and bringing her family are just horrendous. Second of all it may seem remote country but it's her country of origin It's both Polish and Mexican traditions that Wedding takes place at bride's place.

1. The complexity of your application. Is it something within immigration rules, where there are clear, unambiguous guidelines you can follow; or is your case something completely atypical?

Thank you for your answer kamoe.
It's nothing atypical, but saw on this forum similar cases like ours has been refused so I try to anticipate and tackle problems.
I assume they know what triggers red flags and will help to cover those areas if possible.

1) Choose pictures of both sets of parents together (both of you plus both sets of parents at the wedding would be ideal).

Thing is that because of the flight distance and medical conditions my parents are unable to attend the ceremony. We plan to do another party in my home town with her nearest family at the begging of next year.

You could, in theory, not apply for any Family Permit for her, and demand an ink stamp on arrival to the UK showing your marriage certificate, but... the proper way to do things is always to apply for a Family Permit before you travel, and there is no real reason not to do this unless you find yourself in need of travel in emergency...

I thought that applying for the family permit after those 3 months of cohabitation will be stronger than applying one month after marriage.

Thanks for all your answers,
Mateusz

[Zerubbabel]

Hi lastchomikain

Immigration law is static but each case is unique. What I can tell you from my own history (30 years immigration in many countries), is that you have to claim your own history and see how the rules would apply to you. It means, you are not looking how the rules work in general, but how you can make them work for you.

Six years ago, when I married with my wife, she was an undocumented migrant. It means we went to the registrar with her passport and nothing in it. I remember the eyes of the registrar rolling! She asked if there is a visa or a residence card, we just said "no". My wife has a permanent residence now. After our wedding, we applied for a BRC using EU route (I am EEA national) and got her residence within weeks no questions asked.

Each story is unique and hope you will find the solution to your equation considering all the factors your mentioned.

[lastchomikain]

Hello everyone,

Thank you in advance for your help and good advice. As I was writing before me and my wife are preparing EEA family permit application for her. As we have almost everything ready I'd like to ask for a final piece of advice basing on group members experiences. My concerns are based on very little time before Brexit, we'd simply rather apply under current regulations and the fact that we're together not very long time and applying short time after marriage therefore want to avoid any accusations for marriage of convenience. Quick description of the situation. I'm Polish citizen with granted Pre-Settled status, my wife is non-EEA national. We've met during her studies and formed relationship in August 2018. Her student visa expired in February, but we stayed in relationship. During her visit in March 2019 I proposed and we planned our wedding in Mexico (her country of origin) for September 2019.
To support the application we are providing:
-Certified copy of my EEA passport.
-Her passport.
-Translated Mexican marriage certificate.
-My tenancy agreement + supporting letter from co-tennant.
-Council tax bill.
-My bank statements (question - do they need to be stamped by bank if I just get them online?).
-P60.
-My contract of employment and letter from employer
-Flight tickets from our visits (She was visiting twice, I went to Mexico in May and September).
-Electronically marked photographs of us during our relationships, family visits, wedding etc.
-Wedding bills.
-Supporting letter with my contact details.
Both do not have criminal record or overstays etc.
Do any other documents appart from my passport need to be certified?
Any help and opinions are valued.
Kind regards,
Mateusz

[lastchomikain]

We have the permit granted! Thank you for your help guys!

[kamoe]

We have the permit granted! Thank you for your help guys!

Glad to hear! Congratulations!