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Need Urgent advise..rejected

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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Mechanical-engineer
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Pakistan

Need Urgent advise..rejected

Post by Mechanical-engineer » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:07 pm

Hi all,
I applied for HSMP in first week of August,2004.Today, I got a rejection. HSMP team awarded me 60 points.
25 for education....35 for work experience and 0 point for my partners achievments.
My wife has Master’s in English Literature and we have 3 and half year old child.
Reason which HSMP team mentioned in letter is that I did not provide the enough evidence that we both live together...following is the documents which I provided with my application.
second reason for rejection is that Master's in English Literature is not equivalent to bachelor degree in U.K


List of Original documents (unless otherwise specified.)

1. Marriage certificate.(Original & true English translated attested copy from foreign office Pakistan)
2. Spouse Master’s Degree in English Literature.
3. Son’s Birthday certificate. (Showing father and mother name with present address)
4. Spouse Passport. (On husband name & address.)
5. Spouse Identity card. (Original & English translated true attested copy from Notary public.)
6. Husband’s (applicant) bank statement and bank letter. (Showing present address.)
7. Husband’s (applicant) Passport(Notary attested showing present address.)
8. Husband’s (applicant) Identity card (English translated and Notary attested.)
9. Letter from Local Union Council. (Certifying that husband and wife are living together)


I am applying for a review and hope to have some good comments for preparing my review letter.


regards,

Mechanical -engineer

Mechanical-engineer
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Pakistan

Moderators help require....

Post by Mechanical-engineer » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:28 pm

Please do help me to come out this stresses situation.

lbfrancois
Member
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:03 pm

Post by lbfrancois » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:42 pm

You have to prove that you have been leaving together for at least 2 years. Marriage certificate doesnt seem to weight much on the process. You have to send letters sent to you and your wife for the past 2 years, like gas/eletricity bills, bank statements, insurance... You also have to prove that your wife is currently employed (or has been employed) at a graduate level or graduate level equivalent job.

I hope that helps.
Good Luck.

Boom05
Junior Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:02 pm

Post by Boom05 » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:20 pm

All the the documents you attached are not conclusive evidence that you both live together as far as HO requirements are concerned, HO would prefer documents addressed to both of you jointly or either singly preferably utility bills, insurance, taxes, bank statements etc. (basically items issued by governmental authorities).

somebody on this board once said he was denied spouse point despite being married for 22 years, i want to believe that its not the marriage that is the issue with HO, but living together and your ability to proof it. In my opinion, you seem to have some items they need i.e

1. Marriage Certificate.
2. Bank statement - preferably the one addressed to your wife along with the one addressed to you.
3. Instead of letter from local council, why not council tax, rates, tv tax etc.
4. Registration document with hospital or local health authority.
5. Insurance documents - whichever type of insurance (i actually submited my spouse vehicle insurance).
6. Mortgage or Tenancy agreements.
7. Utility bills - Telephone, electricity, water rate etc

Three of this along with your marriage certificate will do the trick especially with 60 point already.
Its easy to follow the crowd, it takes courage to stand alone !

rella
Member
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:59 am

Re: Need Urgent advise..rejected

Post by rella » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:08 pm

Mechanical-engineer wrote: List of Original documents (unless otherwise specified.)

1. Marriage certificate.(Original & true English translated attested copy from foreign office Pakistan)
How long ago were you married?
2. Spouse Master’s Degree in English Literature.
This should cover your wife on her qualificaitions. I'm taking it that she has the equivalent of a bachelor's degree? I'd include that too.
3. Son’s Birthday certificate. (Showing father and mother name with present address)
You said your child was 3.5 years old. I don't know how close they want everything to the 2-year mark. It would be ridiculous if they didn't count this piece of evidence showing that you and your wife lived at the same address AND had a child together. But, stranger things have happened with the HSMP team...
4. Spouse Passport. (On husband name & address.)
Is there some date on this, showing it valid at the 2 year mark?
5. Spouse Identity card. (Original & English translated true attested copy from Notary public.)
Same thing again -- is there a date on it -- as well as address in common with yours -- showing it at 2 years ago?
6. Husband’s (applicant) bank statement and bank letter. (Showing present address.)
Does this match the address on the other docs? Is your wife a joint account holder or does she have priviledges, such as being able to use a debit card or credit card on the account if she isn't a joint account holder? Is the statement dated 2 years ago?
7. Husband’s (applicant) Passport(Notary attested showing present address.)
Do the passports from your country have address and beginning date? If not, then this doc will carry no weight to the caseworker.
8. Husband’s (applicant) Identity card (English translated and Notary attested.)
Does this have an address -- same as your wife's card -- and effective date that is at the 2 year mark?
9. Letter from Local Union Council. (Certifying that husband and wife are living together)
Does this letter state that you and your wife have been living together during the past two years? I don't know if HSMP would count this type of evidence, because they are sticklers for their own rules -- especially these trainees, who don't seem to have much experience yet. They seem to have trouble making judgement calls.

I'm assuming, by your child's age, that you have been married for longer than 2 years. So, you have that part. Your wife has an M.S. -- so you have that part covered.

Now, you need to look at your remaining evidence and see if you have 3 pieces of evidence addressed to you and your wife jointly -- at just about 2 years ago. If you don't have joint info, then you need double that.

I think that your son's birth certificate should be counted for one piece -- but since he's 3.5, they may be jerks about it and say it's not within the last 2 years. The only other joint doc you have is this letter from the Local Union Council. Did you explain clearly to the caseworker what this council is? Is it similar to the city councils in the UK? If not, then explain who the council is, what their role is and why they are a reliable source to use for proof of you and your wife residing together. Make sure this doc clearly states that you lived together during the past 2 years.

Assuming that they accepted these two other piece of documentation as valid, that leaves you with one more piece you need -- if you don't have anything joint, then you have to have separate pieces, dated 2 years ago in each of your names to the same address. So, if the passports or ID cards are not dated, then you can't use them. You can use the bank statement for yourself, if it's 2 years old, but then you have to have another 2 year old piece of official mail in your wife's name at the same address as you.

Do you and your wife live in your own place and have utility bills in your name? If you live with your parents or hers, then you need to explain that to the caseworker. I think it should be in their training to understand cultural differences in living arrangements for young couples, but they may not have a clue and be using typical british couples as a gauge. It can't hurt to explain every piece of evidence you submit and explain if things are done differently in your country, how it differs and what other evidence you can supply to show your marriage is valid and that you live with your spouse.

Good luck. It's pretty obvious that you and your wife are living together. Now, you've just got to prove that to the caseworker. If I were you, I'd contact them and stay very calm and respectful, ask why they didn't find your evidence compelling, explain your situation and why you submitted what you did and try to see if you can convince them to reconsider.

I hope you are successful. It sounds like you should definitely be awarded your partner points.

Mechanical-engineer
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Pakistan

Re: Need Urgent advise..rejected

Post by Mechanical-engineer » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:07 pm

First of all thank you all,especially rella because even I for myself can not do such a detail assesment.U people are really sincere.

How long ago were you married?

In July,2000.....almost 4 -1/2 years now.

Is there some date on this, showing it valid at the 2 year mark?

I sended original Passport of my wife which clearly mention her name her ID card number ,Present address(Which is mentioned in all my documents) ,validity for 5 years and my wife got her passport in August,2002

Same thing again -- is there a date on it -- as well as address in common with yours -- showing it at 2 years ago?

same as above

I have a year old bank statement which clearly mention my present address.

Do the passports from your country have address and beginning date? If not, then this doc will carry no weight to the caseworker.

Yes,it includes present address,date of issue,id card number ,date of validity and place of issue at front page ....my spouse and my passport is almost 2 -1/2 years old and both have same contact address

Does this have an address -- same as your wife's card -- and effective date that is at the 2 year mark?

yes both ID cards have same mailing contact address and both ID are more then 2 years old.I submitted the original ID of my wife with notorized copy in english translation.


Does this letter state that you and your wife have been living together during the past two years? I don't know if HSMP would count this type of evidence, because they are sticklers for their own rules -- especially these trainees, who don't seem to have much experience yet. They seem to have trouble making judgement calls.

Yes clearly mentioned that both husband and wife are living toghther from last 4 years in this house.

................................
Now I would like to explaint that why I was not able to produce the evidence which HSMP was looking for.As I am living with one of my elder brothe all utility bills Electricity,Telephone,gas deduct from his salary as this house is provided by Govt. of Pakistan.
My wife is stilling using her own old account which she had before marriage.These people are unable to understand that systems are not as good as in U.K.The evidence I provided was n=more then enough to prove of living together.My present address is my birht place all my educational and any documents related to me has same address and this same address is mention in all my wife documents which i provided with my applicatioin....One thing noe of above document except certificate from Council is less then 2 year old and all were provided in original form.

Hope I will able to make a strong case with the help of all of yours co-operation.

cheers,

f2k
Diamond Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:14 pm
Location: London

Post by f2k » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:27 pm

Just on a difffent matter, could you provide us with your application date (when they recieved it) as well the date of the rejection letter and when you recieved. and also whether you applied for 'Urgent treatment'. i am just curious as to where they are in the process as you are an August applicant

rella
Member
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 1:59 am

Post by rella » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:49 pm

Ok... just a couple more questions.

- Do you think that NARIC would recognize your wife's MA as equivalent to at least a UK BA? I think it's important to make sure that this isn't why they denied these points.

- Is your wife's bank account at your current address?


I think that what you do is write a letter to your case-worker directly. In it, you explain what you did to us -- that you live with your older brother and the circumstances and explain that this why you don't have lease, utility bills, etc. Offer to give them proof of this if they require it.

Explain why you chose the evidence that you did -- make a list of each piece of documentation and explain in detail what each piece means and what the dates are -- for instance, that the passport was effective on such and such date.

Make it brief and concise, but with adequate detail to make sure that the caseworker understands what each item means.

I would then email it, and follow up with a hardcopy letter posted to them -- and tell the caseworker in the email that you are also sending a hardcopy, but are concerned about it reaching them in time.

Offer to provide more evidence and ask them if you can speak with them by telephone to go over each piece of evidence after they review your email. That way, you can offer to answer any questions they might have about your marraige and your claim for points.

If you get this done and sent in right away, my guess is that they will review your case quickly. I think you have a good shot at getting the decision reversed.

Good luck.

Mechanical-engineer
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: Pakistan

Post by Mechanical-engineer » Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:47 pm

Onceagain thankx rella for ur sincere advise.I will follow what u mentioned in ur mail.
My wife is still using her own previous account which have her parents home address.
onceagain thanks for ur advise.
cheers,

Rex
Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:08 am

Post by Rex » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:33 pm

try to get letters for ur wife on ur address like

hospital bills
mobile bills
interview calls letters
rent a car invoice
..........
or any such thing which has her name and address on it.

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