Any dependent on financial support

[zaf1]

In pakistan the vfs does not let you self upload and want to charge you for premium services.

Anyway, I can only upload via a third partner to be reliable as self uploading again has similar issues you can not ascertain what docs get uploaded.

The purpose of checklist is to ensure all docs are complete. So, I feel home office should look at that if vfs missed some docs really.

Appeal although can be long but most lawyers advising that.

[seagul]

I suspect that the staff at VFS centre hadn't scanned and uploaded your payslips properly that caused the refusal. Another member few weeks ago got the refusal where vfs staff hadn't scanned his wedding pictures which caused refusal on grounds that both partners not met in person on wedding. I am afraid as they won't accept their responsibility and also sadly they don't give any confirmation as what they have uploaded & sent.

[zaf1]

Many Thanks Seagul and all for useful suggestions.

After taking your opinions and speaking with a few immigration lawyers. I have been advised on the pros and cons of both appeal and reapply.

The consensus opinion is that I will likely win appeal however it can take from anywhere between 4-10 months or even longer.
and if I reapply I will get my wife here a lot quicker but would lose money. One way or the other will lose money to lawyers or to home office

I am thinking if I reapply with priority service (6 weeks) again in the next few weeks or so do I need be concern about it can be rejected again. Most probably I will use 90% same docs but few additional slips and bank statements of course. My wife would need to retake the TB test as her test is expiring on 10th October.
Next time how can I be 100% assured vfs would do its job properly.

Am I correct to think my chances are greater in reapplication if I remove earlier objection (of course I did attach payslips before as well )
This time perhaps I can mention it somewhere in the online form the checklist of docs I am submitting? but form has limit on no of words. Please advise me I do not want to lose money again

[seagul]

Many Thanks Seagul and all for useful suggestions.

After taking your opinions and speaking with a few immigration lawyers. I have been advised on the pros and cons of both appeal and reapply.

The consensus opinion is that I will likely win appeal however it can take from anywhere between 4-10 months or even longer.
and if I reapply I will get my wife here a lot quicker but would lose money. One way or the other will lose money to lawyers or to home office

I am thinking if I reapply with priority service (6 weeks) again in the next few weeks or so do I need be concern about it can be rejected again. Most probably I will use 90% same docs but few additional slips and bank statements of course. My wife would need to retake the TB test as her test is expiring on 10th October.
Next time how can I be 100% assured vfs would do its job properly.

Am I correct to think my chances are greater in reapplication if I remove earlier objection (of course I did attach payslips before as well )
This time perhaps I can mention it somewhere in the online form the checklist of docs I am submitting? but form has limit on no of words. Please advise me I do not want to lose money again

Priority service might not work in your case because of having prior refusal. If you will made the new application until 10th October then you wont need the new TB test. Why not this time you as a sponsor scan and upload the documents from UK VFS centre. Also remember that each new application will be dealt on its own merit and it doesnt mean if they have refused you only due to missing payslips while rest of the documents were satisfactory rather they can still refuse you on other reasons for which you have to strictly complied with their guidance. Get all documents and make sure that especially the financial, employment documents and accommodation documents are not older than 28 days and if now you have completed 6 months with present employer then preferably apply under category A. Also dont forget to attach wedding pictures, whatsapp chat/calls or any other document which prove subsisting relationship as much as you can.

[zaf1]

Thanks, Seagul again for words of caution!

Some immigration lawyers suggested you can still apply priority service but I will speak to more tomorrow and day after.

I will complete 6 months with current employer end of oct. But my thinking was since home office said I did not upload/supplied previous employer payslip which in reality I did and on that basis I got my ILR . I do not want to appear guilty and want to show them I have these payslips and are attached now again.

Maybe I will write a note about it in extra/additional information section on the online application.

The truth about self-uploading or uploading documents in UK or vfs global or even sending them to scanning hub is all same. Most lawyers said that your case is exceptional and vfs normally do scan docs alright maybe your wife can be more prudent this time and ask them questions/checks to ensure all docs are uploaded.
Plus my wife already has organized bundle of docs she took to vfs global last time so it will be little effort on her part to add a few more docs or update them. All we can do is to make sure they all are scan and uploaded and not leave until its all done.

I think same system is in the UK. In the UK they have a slow (page by page) scanners I think which take very long time and most of the time you have to leave docs with a member of staff who ensures you that he/she will upload them. If you send docs to scanning hub you can still not be sure that they scanned it all. I have seen some rejections where sponsor/applicant posted a bundle of docs to the home office and home office still came up with rejection saying they have not received a certain document.
Self uploading with application from outside the UK particularly from Pakistan is a myth. This option is quitely muted and even if it works it is the most unreliable one as you can not even see what's uploaded and would see page crashing many times in the process. VFS global has fast speed scanners but to ensure it is uploading documents applicants have to question each doc been uploaded or at least request to see the screen. Maybe I will see if I can book a premium lounge or send an email to vfsglobal with my appointment confirmation to ensure all docs are uploaded and we had rejection before!

Yes, I understand application will have new merits but at least they should not object to anything they did not objected before. I will ensure all docs are dated within 28 days.

One clarification is it 28 days from the online application submission or from the date of biometric/docs upload???????
For tb test you may be right but been bitten by the home office once I might ask her to retake the test will see!

[seagul]

One clarification is it 28 days from the online application submission or from the date of biometric/docs upload???????

online application submission

[zaf1]

Thanks again!

I will reapply via solicitor this time as I am scared now . Solicitor would cost more but at least more checks on my application would be still better than another rejection. Plus solicitor said they would submit docs here in the UK and I do not have to worry about they will get a receipt from vfs and they never had any issues with regard to uploading.

One minor issue I had was that when I started my new job for the 1st payslip due to some error my pension was not deduced. However, I spoke with HR and they agreed that it was a payroll error and you are auto enrolled in pensions as they contributed their part but only employee deduction was not made. HR said they will deduce the pension for 2 months in the next month slip. In following month two pensions were deduced as agreed but in payslip only one was reflected. Please note gross pay is the same but since two pensions were deduced the amount credited to my bank account is one pension less and there is this discrepancy (150 pound).

I spoke with my solicitor they said if you get a letter from HR explaining it that should be no problem. My HR is also happy to issue a letter as per solicitor suggestions. HR would also issue all my slips on letterhead pads with gross amount only. I will use along with normal slips that I receive via post which have gross pay, tax deductions, NI deduction and pension contributions. These letter would be on letterhead pad, signed and stamped.

Another thing is I will write a sentence or so about this in my online application and would also write why my 1st application was refused and I have attached the missing payslips in the new application and supporting docs would be uploaded by vfs UK.

I just want to clarify (sanity check) that this should not be a problem ?

Thanks.

[seagul]

Thanks again!

1. I will reapply via solicitor this time as I am scared now . Solicitor would cost more but at least more checks on my application would be still better than another rejection. Plus solicitor said they would submit docs here in the UK and I do not have to worry about they will get a receipt from vfs and they never had any issues with regard to uploading.

2. One minor issue I had was that when I started my new job for the 1st payslip due to some error my pension was not deduced. However, I spoke with HR and they agreed that it was a payroll error and you are auto enrolled in pensions as they contributed their part but only employee deduction was not made. HR said they will deduce the pension for 2 months in the next month slip. In following month two pensions were deduced as agreed but in payslip only one was reflected. Please note gross pay is the same but since two pensions were deduced the amount credited to my bank account is one pension less and there is this discrepancy (150 pound).

3. I spoke with my solicitor they said if you get a letter from HR explaining it that should be no problem. My HR is also happy to issue a letter as per solicitor suggestions. HR would also issue all my slips on letterhead pads with gross amount only. I will use along with normal slips that I receive via post which have gross pay, tax deductions, NI deduction and pension contributions. These letter would be on letterhead pad, signed and stamped.

4. Another thing is I will write a sentence or so about this in my online application and would also write why my 1st application was refused and I have attached the missing payslips in the new application and supporting docs would be uploaded by vfs UK.

I just want to clarify (sanity check) that this should not be a problem ?

Thanks.

1. That's what I suggested you in previous post that preferably you scan documents from UK this time.

2. That error is very common because according to new govt policy the employers get enrolled their employees on auto pension scheme despite a lot of them have the option to opt out later.

3. Yes covering letter can sort this out but still try your best to repeat same clarification regarding discrepancy in wages credit due to pension scheme in additional info of the form too so that caseworker doesn't overlook it at all because its very important aspect.

4. Yes you can briefly explain it in same covering letter

[zaf1]

While sifting through the docs for a new application. My wife found a checklist all ticked and signed by her and vfs staff.

This had all ticks again for previous employer salary slip as well. This is again irrefutable proof I submitted my previous slips.

I do not really want to go into appeal but is there any chance of quick justice as appeal can take very long time and quickest way is fast track new application.

Is it possible to raise this issue in complain after filling my 2nd application and asking for refund ?

BLV ME IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. I AM GENERALLY VERY PRUDENT

[seagul]

While sifting through the docs for a new application. My wife found a checklist all ticked and signed by her and vfs staff.

This had all ticks again for previous employer salary slip as well. This is again irrefutable proof I submitted my previous slips.

I do not really want to go into appeal but is there any chance of quick justice as appeal can take very long time and quickest way is fast track new application.

Is it possible to raise this issue in complain after filling my 2nd application and asking for refund ?

BLV ME IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. I AM GENERALLY VERY PRUDENT

Refund wont be possible but you can complain them and also involve your local MP but it might take considerable amount of time.

[zaf1]

Submitted online application today again with priority service.

My solicitor advice to include previous checklist with new application docs and explained it in the cover letter. Hopefully it would be good this time
I wont complain unless I get decision on 2nd application but at least I attached previous checklist as a part of this application and mentioned the story in cover letter so if required in court would be in better position.

Regarding supporting docs solicitor said she will upload in Manchester and she only took color copies of passport rest is black and white.
I am really concern about black and white versions of supporting docs. She said they do it day in day out and its only passport that should be colored. Apparently I could not win this argument with her.
Is there any issue if supporting docs are black and white? They look good quality and are readable anyway?
But I read on vfs site where it mentioned all should be color copies but she said that is only if you are posting them for scan?
please help!

[seagul]

I am really concern about black and white versions of supporting docs. She said they do it day in day out and its only passport that should be colored. Apparently I could not win this argument with her.

Maybe you win;

Documents uploaded to the UKVCAS website must have a file size no larger than 6MB. To minimise
the file size we recommend scanning in black and white or greyscale and not in colour. It is also
helpful to keep the resolution between 150 dpi (dots per inch) to 300 dpi.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/sopr ... as/FAQ.pdf

[zaf1]

Thanks Seagul again!

I think for application outside Uk you upload via vfs global and guideline in the link below,

https://www.vfsglobal.co.uk/pk/en/vacs/ ... -documents

Saying for docs not in color you pay extra.

[seagul]

The one I described in previous post relates to UKVCAS from inside the country because you shown your desire to use it from UK this time.

[zaf1]

The link I send had details of uploading from uk as well. I am not sure if its UKVAS address,

Anyway, I hope she and you are right. Maybe I will request to do photos in color at least.

But it is not clear guidance by home office anyway so it should not be a concern (wishful thinking)

[zaf1]

Plus these addresses are none of UKVCAS service center locations,

Locations to submit documents in Person under Option 3:
London: 66 Wilson Street, London, EC2A 2BT
Birmingham: 5 - 14 South Road, Smethwick, Birmingham, B67 7BN
Belfast: Merrion Business Centre, First Floor 58, Howard Street, Belfast, BT1 6PJ
Leicester: C/O Peepul's Centre, Orchardson Avenue, Leicester, LE4 6DP
Cardiff: Temple Court – 13A Cathedral Road, Cardiff CF11 9H
Manchester: 50 Devonshire Street North, Manchester, M12 6JH
Edinburgh: 1 Rennie's Isle, Leith, Edinburgh, EH6 6QT
Liverpool: SUITE NO 207, Second Floor, Graeme House, Derby Square, Liverpool, L2 7ZH
Bradford: Skipton Chamber 16-18 North Parade, Bradford, BD13HT

These are vfs centers and they operate for issuing Schengen visa to European countries. I was also under flase pretense that you upload to same UKVCAS service centers but they are different.

I hope it goes alright this time!

[KristianDLloyd]

Your previous posts suggest this is an out of country application:

immigration-for-family-members/any-depe ... l#p1779949

Therefore, disregard the Sopra Steria guidance.

The sentence on the VFS makes no sense, just a couple of random words.

I took a mixture of coloured and black and white copies to VFS, nothing was said.

[zaf1]

Thanks yes, It does not make clear sense.

Solicitor said that is required if you are posting them documents (scanning hub Birmingham).

My assumption is nobody can be bothered to print all docs in color. But I will try to convince her if some photos/logo letters can be colored.

Thanks.

[zaf1]

One more thing, for my previous employment (University) they had some govt approved pension scheme where you get some tax relief on pension and pension is deduced from gross salary 1st then you get tax deductions. So, you receive some tax benefits and its all legal and govt approved pension scheme.

My employer letter had my gross salary stated without pension deductions and we were informed you can cite your gross salary as is and that is what I used for ILR with no issues.

For the spouse visa in appendix 2 you have to cite 12 months salary. In my pay slip both gross salary and pension is stated. I preferred to use gross salary but solicitor said better use salary after pension as your tax is deduced after that.
She said your salary will be much higher than 18600 limit anyway and wont make any difference and said better to cite a lower amount then overstate the salary which may be misrepresentation?
I want to know if that is OK ?

Thanks.

[seagul]

but solicitor said better use salary after pension as your tax is deduced after that.

That person if he /she is a solicitor is totally wrong because gross income before any tax/deduction is counted for visa purposes. Your employer letter is correct which is showing gross income before pension.

[zaf1]

Thanks, Yes in the application form we wrote gross salary only for the previous employer as per employer letter.

I will ask her to change that in appendix 2 and in the cover letter. It is correct we should use gross salary before pension deductions. But the confusion was due to salary sacrifice pension scheme where your salary is reduced by the amount of pension contribution and then tax is deduced so you save on tax.

But still, it is better to cite gross pay to be consistent with the letter and in the guidance of pension scheme, University said for the external purpose (loan, mortgage) you can cite gross pay.

[Korekt]

There may need to be some clarification or reconciliation with the actual requirements of the immigration rules as HO tends to use the taxable pay for the purposes of meeting the financial requirements (pay after pension deductions where a person pays pension contributions).

Some sort of official clarification may need to be sought as to whether this is in compliance with the rules.

[seagul]

There may need to be some clarification or reconciliation with the actual requirements of the immigration rules as HO tends to use the taxable pay for the purposes of meeting the financial requirements (pay after pension deductions where a person pays pension contributions).

Some sort of official clarification may need to be sought as to whether this is in compliance with the rules.

What further clarification need to be sought when official guidance very clearly mentioning that gross income (before any deductions) will be considered?? You can even opt out from this pension scheme if you wishes.

[zaf1]

I think in Appendix 2 form and application form the question is what is your salary before tax? Not gross salary.

Some pension schemes like mine (approved by HMRC) reduce your salary by the amount of pension you contribute so you get tax savings and tax is deduced afterward (after pension deductions).

In my employer guidance, they state that for the external purpose (loans/mortgages) you can cite gross salary.
Nevertheless, my payslips have both numbers although my tax (P60) is deduced based on gross salary-pension.

Since my salary, either way is above 18600 limits so lawyer suggested citing lower value then overestimate.

I will double-check with solicitor again. In my current employment where the pension is deducted from gross along with the tax. Solicitor rightly put down gross pay.

THanks.

[seagul]

Its called Tax relief. The way your pension is deducting from your wages is same like in case of many other work places and they all are HMRC approved because employer is bound to update HMRC. If your wages is higher in either way then for own peace of mind put that gross income which is after pension adjustments. But for visa purposes in paye employment UKVI only considers that amount which is before any kind of deductions. Also the reason you couldn't find the word of pension along with tax :"Salary before Tax/pension" in appendix II because not everyone join that pension scheme rather many workers join other private pension companies/schemes.