lobbying before it is too late!!!!

[kevo]

dramatic words sovtek

i think a balance needs to be struck. I think most Irish people want the Irish government to have some say on immigration and taxation policy (including me, a Europhile and Yes man) and, thus, people will become more EU sceptic on foot of this decision.

I would certainly welcome an EU directive though on visa/residency waiting times.

I do think it's a pity that Ireland has been over-ruled by the EU, making a Yes vote on Lisbon II more unlikely; however this decision should be welcomed in general.

Another downside to the decision is that it's likely that Mr. Malikos will be staying in Ireland now.

Do you think it's a pity when the government of an EU state acts illegally and corrupt and gets called out for it?
This is probably one of few times that the EU checks the excesses of the Irish government and Irish people should be happy that there is a system in place to protect you from such intransigence.
Now if they would just get onto the intentional slowdown of justice in processing visa's, VRT, Corporate tax, bad housing standards, bad food standards, anti competative corruption and cartels then living standards in this place would vastly improve and might resemble something of what most continentals enjoy.

[Ben]

I would certainly welcome an EU directive though on visa/residency waiting times.

+1

[walrusgumble]

I do think it's a pity that Ireland has been over-ruled by the EU, making a Yes vote on Lisbon II more unlikely; however this decision should be welcomed in general.

Another downside to the decision is that it's likely that Mr. Malikos will be staying in Ireland now.

Do you think it's a pity when the government of an EU state acts illegally and corrupt and gets called out for it?
This is probably one of few times that the EU checks the excesses of the Irish government and Irish people should be happy that there is a system in place to protect you from such intransigence.
Now if they would just get onto the intentional slowdown of justice in processing visa's, VRT, Corporate tax, bad housing standards, bad food standards, anti competative corruption and cartels then living standards in this place would vastly improve and might resemble something of what most continentals enjoy.

you should worry about the standards of your own country first mate! why you here anyway, why not head home if you criticise this country? Corporation tax has being the fuel of the economic boom in ireland (i note there are huge consequences)

The way you go on! as an irish person, i have no qualms in criticism ,its always good to hear an outsiders point of view, but no country in europe will tolerate for one minute to be dicated to or told what should be done.

How come we hear no of ye complain about the current italian president, you would swear this country is some cess pit of dirt, bloody hell if some of ye got heard talking the way ye do ( I reckon its more out of emotion than any) ......... You would swear that its all a bed of roses in other eu countries at the moment!

[sovtek]

I do think it's a pity that Ireland has been over-ruled by the EU, making a Yes vote on Lisbon II more unlikely; however this decision should be welcomed in general.

Another downside to the decision is that it's likely that Mr. Malikos will be staying in Ireland now.

Do you think it's a pity when the government of an EU state acts illegally and corrupt and gets called out for it?
This is probably one of few times that the EU checks the excesses of the Irish government and Irish people should be happy that there is a system in place to protect you from such intransigence.
Now if they would just get onto the intentional slowdown of justice in processing visa's, VRT, Corporate tax, bad housing standards, bad food standards, anti competative corruption and cartels then living standards in this place would vastly improve and might resemble something of what most continentals enjoy.

I don't disagree with most of what you've said, but VRT? Vehicle Registration Tax? Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think the Revenue have absolutely no slowdown at all, in reeling in this controversial tax.

I was only refering to a slowdown in processing visa's. The VRT is another instance of the Irish government sticking up two fingers to the EU as well as to the Irish people. No one benefits except on the take politicians and car dealers with that import duty.

[sovtek]

I do think it's a pity that Ireland has been over-ruled by the EU, making a Yes vote on Lisbon II more unlikely; however this decision should be welcomed in general.

Another downside to the decision is that it's likely that Mr. Malikos will be staying in Ireland now.

Do you think it's a pity when the government of an EU state acts illegally and corrupt and gets called out for it?
This is probably one of few times that the EU checks the excesses of the Irish government and Irish people should be happy that there is a system in place to protect you from such intransigence.
Now if they would just get onto the intentional slowdown of justice in processing visa's, VRT, Corporate tax, bad housing standards, bad food standards, anti competative corruption and cartels then living standards in this place would vastly improve and might resemble something of what most continentals enjoy.

you should worry about the standards of your own country first mate! why you here anyway, why not head home if you criticise this country?

Mate! I will worry about, bitch about and criticize whatever I well please.
I live and pay taxes here so I have every right to.
However you going on about every non-eu/eu couple being a sham marriage is not on. Believe me things aren't so great here that everyone is just dying to get in.

Corporation tax has being the fuel of the economic boom in ireland (i note there are huge consequences)

It's also the reason the PAYE is getting bilked. FDI only goes so far and then it's up to the government to try and foster local business instead of depending on multinational corporations for the foundation of the economy...being that the latter will always take more than they give.

The way you go on! as an irish person, i have no qualms in criticism ,its always good to hear an outsiders point of view, but no country in europe will tolerate for one minute to be dicated to or told what should be done.

No you'll just sit idly by as your own government screws you sideways and then blame it on the auslanders.

How come we hear no of ye complain about the current italian president, you would swear this country is some cess pit of dirt, bloody hell if some of ye got heard talking the way ye do ( I reckon its more out of emotion than any) ......... You would swear that its all a bed of roses in other eu countries at the moment!

Because the Italian government isn't treating us like a slave labour pool.
Besides this place seems to need foreignors to point out how things could be better along with us seemingly dragging you guys kicking and screaming into the 20th century much less the current one we happen to be living in.

[mr.malikos]

Hi guys,
Just to give you a short update.....since the ECJ ruling in the Metock case took place, I just went once to the DOJ and the officer was not really updated on it etc...so he could not tell me anything new.
I suspect that in most EU.1 cases they did not respond to applicant’s whether the EU.1 application was successful or not they usually just grated under national Law one year residency (stamp 4). This is already a breach of EU.1 as they must process EU.1 applications within 6 month. This did not take place, so I am going to give them a short notice time and then report to the EU-commission.
I hope Ireland will have to pay a fine or something like that, in order to discourage them for the future in introducing any further stupid rules. As money seems to be one of the key factors influencing their decisions, we have also the option to go to the Irish courts and claim our rights. As based on the Metock-judgement, it is sure that we (EU.1 cases) are going to win, but DOJ will be charged all legal costs! This might be the only way to make them changing their policy quickly, as DOJ will be overwhelmed by a huge cost wave, which is not in their budget. Imagine 1.500 EU.1 cases times 10.000 EUR for legal costs each and the judge will be to 100% in our favour, no risk. HUHHHHHI hope that this time they will be clever and handle the issue in a more pro-active way, rather than making people more angry. So I hope we all get a letter soon stating, that we receive stamp 4 Fam. for 5 years in a very timely!!!
Best

[walrusgumble]

I do think it's a pity that Ireland has been over-ruled by the EU, making a Yes vote on Lisbon II more unlikely; however this decision should be welcomed in general.

Another downside to the decision is that it's likely that Mr. Malikos will be staying in Ireland now.

Do you think it's a pity when the government of an EU state acts illegally and corrupt and gets called out for it?
This is probably one of few times that the EU checks the excesses of the Irish government and Irish people should be happy that there is a system in place to protect you from such intransigence.
Now if they would just get onto the intentional slowdown of justice in processing visa's, VRT, Corporate tax, bad housing standards, bad food standards, anti competative corruption and cartels then living standards in this place would vastly improve and might resemble something of what most continentals enjoy.

you should worry about the standards of your own country first mate! why you here anyway, why not head home if you criticise this country?

Mate! I will worry about, bitch about and criticize whatever I well please.
I live and pay taxes here so I have every right to.
However you going on about every non-eu/eu couple being a sham marriage is not on. Believe me things aren't so great here that everyone is just dying to get in.

Corporation tax has being the fuel of the economic boom in ireland (i note there are huge consequences)

It's also the reason the PAYE is getting bilked. FDI only goes so far and then it's up to the government to try and foster local business instead of depending on multinational corporations for the foundation of the economy...being that the latter will always take more than they give.

The way you go on! as an irish person, i have no qualms in criticism ,its always good to hear an outsiders point of view, but no country in europe will tolerate for one minute to be dicated to or told what should be done.

No you'll just sit idly by as your own government screws you sideways and then blame it on the auslanders.

How come we hear no of ye complain about the current italian president, you would swear this country is some cess pit of dirt, bloody hell if some of ye got heard talking the way ye do ( I reckon its more out of emotion than any) ......... You would swear that its all a bed of roses in other eu countries at the moment!

Because the Italian government isn't treating us like a slave labour pool.
Besides this place seems to need foreignors to point out how things could be better along with us seemingly dragging you guys kicking and screaming into the 20th century much less the current one we happen to be living in.

i hope you do speak english well, in relation to corporation tax note the brackets "(note huge consequences)". Had there being no tax i doubt many would have come to the country.

as for i sitting idly by. how do you know what i get up to? for your information i have previous affilation with socialist workers group and the democratic left, i have and continue to involve my self in community based work. in fairness people of ireland have more important issues to be concerned about than non eu people in ireland (hardsh but it is the sad truth) - who in the right mind and scope of intelligence is actually blaming foreigners for the economic downturn.

as for italy, just as well your are not an asylum seeker then. you knew exactly what you were getting your self in for in ireland when getting those visa. you are not a slave as you have the right to drop your job and apply for a new job (so long as you get your permit) after 5 years naturalise,

like i say, where you from? your country must not be too hot itself since you are over here. when poland and co joined the eu, how many other eu countries like ireland and uk actually allowed for those nationals to come freely into the union and work?

[walrusgumble]

Hi guys,
Just to give you a short update.....since the ECJ ruling in the Metock case took place, I just went once to the DOJ and the officer was not really updated on it etc...so he could not tell me anything new.
I suspect that in most EU.1 cases they did not respond to applicant’s whether the EU.1 application was successful or not they usually just grated under national Law one year residency (stamp 4). This is already a breach of EU.1 as they must process EU.1 applications within 6 month. This did not take place, so I am going to give them a short notice time and then report to the EU-commission.
I hope Ireland will have to pay a fine or something like that, in order to discourage them for the future in introducing any further stupid rules. As money seems to be one of the key factors influencing their decisions, we have also the option to go to the Irish courts and claim our rights. As based on the Metock-judgement, it is sure that we (EU.1 cases) are going to win, but DOJ will be charged all legal costs! This might be the only way to make them changing their policy quickly, as DOJ will be overwhelmed by a huge cost wave, which is not in their budget. Imagine 1.500 EU.1 cases times 10.000 EUR for legal costs each and the judge will be to 100% in our favour, no risk. HUHHHHHI hope that this time they will be clever and handle the issue in a more pro-active way, rather than making people more angry. So I hope we all get a letter soon stating, that we receive stamp 4 Fam. for 5 years in a very timely!!!
Best

for those who have being refused, the state announced in court that ALL applications will now be reviewed in light of the metock case.

[sovtek]

dramatic words sovtek

i think a balance needs to be struck. I think most Irish people want the Irish government to have some say on immigration and taxation policy (including me, a Europhile and Yes man) and, thus, people will become more EU sceptic on foot of this decision.

A balance has already been struck but the Irish government always acts like an overpriviledged spoiled brat and throws his toys around if not getting whatever they want. In this case they wanted to try and keep people that had every right to live and work here from doing so. They are going about it against their own laws as well as the EU's. If they want the economic benefits they are going to have to give up some power as well.
That includes the abuse of power towards their own citizens as well as EU and non-EU citizens alike. You take just about every EU law that the Irish government flouts and it will 100 percent of the time be to the detriment of the Irish citizen. That you have an EU body that can curb these excesses is a gift.

[mr.malikos]

I was delighted to read that the DOJ is reviewing all refused cases of EU.1
They announced this morning in several journals, that the requirement of having prior lawful residency will be removed.
Moreover, they also stated based on this requirement refused EU.1 applications, would take 3-4 month to be reviewed. That seems to be a little bit slow, but the fact that they move now is fully OK...

I just wonder how they are going to deal with EU.1 applicants to whom they did not answer at all. At a certain point, they just grated 1-year stamp 4, but not respond to the EU.1 application after six month. Obviously also these people want to receive ASAP their stamp 4 EU Fam. There is still the obligation to the Irish state to process EU.1 applications within 6 month!

[ca.funke]

There is still the obligation to the Irish state to process EU.1 applications within 6 month!

This obligation inded exists, and is currently simply ignored.

• I rang immigration today (01-6167700 (then 3, then 2)) for "married to EU" enquiries.
• I applied on 31st of January
• thus the deadline for a reply was yesterday (31st July)
• I was told that I should write to a certain person who is dealing with my file.
• I said that the legal limit for a reply was yesterday, therefore I want to know today if this is approved or not. It was impossible to get a definite answer.
• I said that, under these circumstances, I will have to sue the department today.
• She said "you are free to do so"

Well - I will.

[walrusgumble]

as far as genuine marriages are concerned, hearthy congratuglations. for others, well , family courts will be busy in 3-4 years time! ya should not be too worried about what i think, more concerned what the council of europe and people such as France's Sarozy thinks, it is very simile to change eu legisaltion.

It's a pretty sad comment on Irish society if the majority of Irish people think like you do.
The further away from Lisbon Treaty and more stress for Sarky is all the better.

how is it?

why do you see this comment being my own opinion. i normally take you to be quiete intelligent. do you really believe this would not burn the fires of genuine eurosceptics or people like sarky who has clearly stated that his mission as eu president is to sort out the apparent illegal immigrant problems all over europe?

they say that those in ireland, (and previously france and netherlands) voted no on lisborn because of fears of immigration (approx 1% of voters) alias immigration has damn all to do with lisbon, but if another referendum came up, and people paid attention to the metock case, ask yourself, how many people would now vote no?

my last post was a comment, maybe wrong, but it is reasonable. unless and until you see the words "i" or "in my opinion", you should not rush in to conclude certain comments are those of the authors.

i have simply expressed my congratulations to many people i i genuinely felt sorry for,

but as for sham marriages how could any eu citizen tolerate this happening in their state, and yes, the family law courts will be busy with divorces/seperation etc, pop down one some day and see for your self. (of course they are in camera

[Ben]

• I said that, under these circumstances, I will have to sue the department today.
• She said "you are free to do so"

Well - I will.

That's typical of the attitude of EU Treaty Rights staff at the DoJ. They often show this "couldn't care less" attitude.

They lost my passport once, and my wife's birth certificate (original). My wife's birth cert was never found. My passport was found "in a drawer", (eventually).

Anyway, the point I'm making is, that trying to get them to accept that they have an obligation to fulfill their duties, responsibly and respectfully, is like getting blood from a stone. Don't even think about expecting them to go the extra mile - in anything. They couldn't care less.

Sorry to tar all EU Treaty Rights staff of the DoJ with the same brush, but I've yet to come across an individual there with any shred of human decency.

[sovtek]

Sorry to tar all EU Treaty Rights staff of the DoJ with the same brush, but I've yet to come across an individual there with any shred of human decency.

I agree and I believe the rot starts at the top. I remember being treaty pretty decent by immigration in Ireland but that has long since changed.

[ca.funke]

superfluous post - thanks for making it superfluous (may be deleted by an admin...)

[sovtek]

as far as genuine marriages are concerned, hearthy congratuglations. for others, well , family courts will be busy in 3-4 years time! ya should not be too worried about what i think, more concerned what the council of europe and people such as France's Sarozy thinks, it is very simile to change eu legisaltion.

It's a pretty sad comment on Irish society if the majority of Irish people think like you do.
The further away from Lisbon Treaty and more stress for Sarky is all the better.

how is it?

why do you see this comment being my own opinion. i normally take you to be quiete intelligent. do you really believe this would not burn the fires of genuine eurosceptics or people like sarky who has clearly stated that his mission as eu president is to sort out the apparent illegal immigrant problems all over europe?

My intelligence is not in question here nor is it relevant. And you calling me out for spelling and/or grammar mistakes is laughable!
Because you've constantly argued for the current treatment of non-eu people in Ireland. You also alluded to the family courts being packed because of sham marriages. Firstly it's a claim that is backed up by zero evidence (eerily sounding like the ex MoJ himself...also unable to provide evidence of such abuse).
Secondly its a statement that reeks of arrogance and ignorance.
It might very well get some of the eurosceptics up in arms. I couldn't care less. The 1 stated reason for voting against the EU constitution was neo-liberal economic principles. If this ruling pisses off some xenophobic element of Irish society...all the better. If it stymies an idiot and incompetant head of state like Sarky, who is obviously trying to gain popularity by pitting people against each other and stoking the worst in people...oh well.

they say that those in ireland, (and previously france and netherlands) voted no on lisborn because of fears of immigration (approx 1% of voters) alias immigration has damn all to do with lisbon, but if another referendum came up, and people paid attention to the metock case, ask yourself, how many people would now vote no?

What does it matter? It's already obvious Irish people are against the Lisbon Treaty. It's not a good reason to deny people their rights and for th e Irish government to carry on illegally and in a corrupt manner.

my last post was a comment, maybe wrong, but it is reasonable. unless and until you see the words "i" or "in my opinion", you should not rush in to conclude certain comments are those of the authors.

You are the one who said that the courts will be filled with sham marriage cases. Why would I not assume that is your opinion when you are the one who stated it?

but as for sham marriages how could any eu citizen tolerate this happening in their state, and yes, the family law courts will be busy with divorces/seperation etc, pop down one some day and see for your self. (of course they are in camera

I never suggested anyone tolerate sham marriages. What most people in this forum argue is that the Irish government is going about punishing people for what a few are doing and at the same time not stopping it anyway. That is immoral and as the ECJ rightly said the other day illegal. Nor has any Irish government official produced any evidence that there is a problem with that in Ireland.

[mr.malikos]

Our case is in fact like this, that the DOJ did not process our application within 6 month. We gave them already a final deadline and once this deadline is breached, I will do my best to punish them.
So my plan is not to report to the commission, but moreover to all the relevant deputies in the boards of management related to Ireland, human right, consumer rights, EU-integration boards (and whatsoever I can find) and all my EU-Home countries deputies and of course the embassy! Moreover I'll write to all to all Ireland's EU-deputies.

The next approach is then to join forces. That means for me that a couple of people here in the forum should come together and hire together a solicitor. Since we are going to win 100%, we all get reimbursed, but the initial costs are so very bearable for everybody. This has also the side effect that the DOJ will have to pay the bill and the bigger the bill the better. So it makes sense to me already to establish contact to people willing to go to court or who did already so. (This was actually also the plan B if Metock would have been dismissed by ECJ, due to the unlawful/illegal prior background of certain of these cases).

So let me know what all you people think there.....

[mr.malikos]

OK today we got the letter stating that we are going to get stamp 4 EUFam for 5 years......what a relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so happy now....no more hassle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MAKUSA]

OK today we got the letetr stating that we are going to get stamp 4 EUFam for 5 years......what a relief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so happy now....no more hassle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When did you file your innitial application?

[mr.malikos]

When did you file your innitial application?[/quote]


We filed the application in November 2007, that makes roughly 9 month waiting time.

[ca.funke]

...that makes roughly 9 month waiting time.

I hope you reported this to the European Commission ( sg-plaintes@ec.europa.eu ) as well as Irish Solvit ( solvit@entemp.ie ), as the behaviour by GNIB/DoJ/INIS is simply ILLEGAL. (timing > 6 months)

They were fully aware of this and broke the law deliberately in an attempt to deter and delay as many applications as possible!

Only if a huge amount of people complain about it, especially with the Commission, will they take action and penalise Ireland for this.