- FAQ
- Login
- Register
- Call Workpermit.com for a paid service +44 (0)344-991-9222
ESC
Welcome to immigrationboards.com!
Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2
As I am working in Germany every now and then I get calls from UK companies/Recruiters for job opportunities (as they don't know whether I am a EU citizen or not) but in my experience of last 4.5 years above 90 percentage of companies in UK who contacted me (almost all from London in particular) said they don't have sponsorship license (I actually cross verified this with the official UK sponsorship list). There were instances where even big companies were not in position to sponsor (may be very less or no license remaining who knows). Also, outside of London hardly any company has the muscle to offer sponsorship (also very poor salaries I must say which is true for many London companies as well.)silverocks wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:14 pmHowever there is always a demand for software developers in the UK and mostly all the developer companies has the license to sponsor.
Very true. Its a fresh Tier 2 application for every single job change. At that point the only difference between someone searching a job within UK and outside is that someone residing in UK can attend face 2 face interview if required and he might not be subject to COS monthly quota as it is un-restricted for in-country switch. But apart from that a full RLMT, COS applies.silverocks wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:14 pmIf you want to change the job or employer, they have to follow the routine of RLMT and COS issues every single time unless you're extending your visa.
As a non EU citizen Brexit does not affect someone like me. I think it can either have no effect or positive impact on job market as more companies might opt for sponsorship license once they loose EU access. Can you elaborate on why you think Brexit is relevant in my case?silverocks wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:14 pmBut if i were you then I wouldn't come to UK atleast until the brexit issue is resolved
Yes I agree but the reason I asked the question on this forum is to check whether the reality (especially after Brexit, calls for points based immigration, relaxing immigration stance from the current gov. etc.) is different than what I heard/read or my concerns are misplaced and the immigration environment of UK is not that harsh or atleast is softening. Any inputs would be much appreciated.
Yes 5 years indeed is a long time but my concern is even that is not very assured as there are too many variables in between. Am I right or over analysing?
Actually they were all product companies ranging from small to big companies. I never show interest for contract/consultancy roles as those are not allowed on Tier 2 and why would anyone go for temporary employment even if it were allowed on such a restrictive visa.
Thanks for sharing this. Although based on my experience a lot of them didn't but the once which had ran out of licenses on few occasions (based on what they mentioned me) and so couldn't sponsor. Especially outside London sponsorship was minimal to non-existent at best. But is this changing?
Yes in next 2.5 to 3 years I can apply for citizenship if I can attain German B1 and clear the integration test so in a way that is possible just that it is difficult to learn a language and become conversational in that especially if one is working and have a family.
This can't be predicted at all (opening more doors for non-EU workers) as many things about Brexit aren't clear yet. According to what I have been hearing from previous managers and some events I have attended, companies still would be preferring to sponsor an EU candidate over an overseas one, so that to say there will be more opportunities for skilled candidates like us (non-EU) after Brexit is a mere speculation.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:54 pm
3] May be future points based immigration system after Brexit would open more doors as skilled workers would be needed in higher proportion than they are currently (again speculation based on loss of access to EU?)
It doesn't matter the size or the location of the company to be able to provide sponsorship to a foreign worker, as long as they fill all the requirements to get a license. Personally I know companies with less than 10 employees and some of them are in the UK under a Tier 2 visa.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:39 pm
There were instances where even big companies were not in position to sponsor (may be very less or no license remaining who knows). Also, outside of London hardly any company has the muscle to offer sponsorship (also very poor salaries I must say which is true for many London companies as well.)
Thanks for sharing this.lolo2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:36 pmThis can't be predicted at all (opening more doors for non-EU workers) as many things about Brexit aren't clear yet. According to what I have been hearing from previous managers and some events I have attended, companies still would be preferring to sponsor an EU candidate over an overseas one, so that to say there will be more opportunities for skilled candidates like us (non-EU) after Brexit is a mere speculation.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:54 pm
3] May be future points based immigration system after Brexit would open more doors as skilled workers would be needed in higher proportion than they are currently (again speculation based on loss of access to EU?)
Yes the size of company does not matter. I was saying that proportionally companies who have sponsorship licence for UK are much less than the ones who don't have and that comparatively bigger companies might have sponsorship license compared to smaller ones (as they might want to cut down cost as much as possible). Moreover, outside London number of companies registered as sponsor on UK gov. website are so much lower. So when people say UK has lot of jobs in IT may be true only for residents there but for Tier 2 visa holder the job selection pool is very limited. Also as one Tier 2 license can only be assigned to one Tier 2 visa holder (COS), a lot of companies may not have many/any remaining license at all thus skewing the job options further. So Tier 2 visa holders at any given time might have very limited options for job selection, fierce competition for those limited positions, willingness of companies to sponsor subject to license availability etc. so how this can be good for career if one can only access a very small percentage of labour market. Am I right in accessing this situation?lolo2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:36 pmIt doesn't matter the size or the location of the company to be able to provide sponsorship to a foreign worker, as long as they fill all the requirements to get a license. Personally I know companies with less than 10 employees and some of them are in the UK under a Tier 2 visa.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:39 pm
There were instances where even big companies were not in position to sponsor (may be very less or no license remaining who knows). Also, outside of London hardly any company has the muscle to offer sponsorship (also very poor salaries I must say which is true for many London companies as well.)
Big companies usually offer sponsorship to outstanding candidates and in my opinion it's a matter of luck. Positions in such companies are extremely competitive, they receive lots of CV's from highly skilled candidates all the time.
Thanks for the insights. It really is a bummer that in UK the environment for immigrants is quite hostile whereas in Germany its the language. Both are dealbreaker and quite a bummer.lolo2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:36 pmYou mention a very important point: salaries. The UK is called a low-wage economy, salaries for the same job are usually lower compared to other developed countries. And London is one of the most expensive cities in the world! Well, you already might know that the whole country is very expensive. I am not sure if you have received any salary proposal yet, but you must consider this very well.
I had a flatmate who did the opposite than you last year. After he finished a PhD in Physics and applied for jobs accross the UK with no success, he found a position in Germany and now he and his wife can't be more happy.
If I was you, I wouldn't do that move. But it's a personal choice!
You are pointing out some things here:simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:20 pm
Yes the size of company does not matter. I was saying that proportionally companies who have sponsorship licence for UK are much less than the ones who don't have and that comparatively bigger companies might have sponsorship license compared to smaller ones (as they might want to cut down cost as much as possible). Moreover, outside London number of companies registered as sponsor on UK gov. website are so much lower. So when people say UK has lot of jobs in IT may be true only for residents there but for Tier 2 visa holder the job selection pool is very limited. Also as one Tier 2 license can only be assigned to one Tier 2 visa holder (COS), a lot of companies may not have many/any remaining license at all thus skewing the job options further. So Tier 2 visa holders at any given time might have very limited options for job selection, fierce competition for those limited positions, willingness of companies to sponsor subject to license availability etc. so how this can be good for career if one can only access a very small percentage of labour market. Am I right in accessing this situation?
Well, your statement supports all the insights you have received in this post. There is no way you would receive such benefits in the UK, as they are not available for Tier 2 visa holders.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:20 pm
This is in stark contrast to Germany where there is no concept of sponsorship and license. So anyone with a who has a job offer above a certain salary threshold (for STEM it is fairly achievable) will get a work visa or will be able to change jobs on a whim without much bureaucracy which is ironic because Germany is known for over bureaucracy. So everyone with a work visa has access to entire labour market (within his profession) so job security (which also is outstanding after probation period) is less of a concern. Moreover if anyone loses his/her job on work visa then they get 3 months of job search time with an option to extend it to 6 months as well. Germany also does not differentiate between residents and work visa holders and EVERYONE has access to entire government funds. So say if anyone is registered as unemployed then they get 60 percent of last withdrawn salary (provided they worked for atleast 1 year) till the time they get new job for 1 year and after that subsidised housing if still no job. For work visa holders it is 3 months of payment as unemployment benefit till the time they get new job. So one gets to access all the benefits paid as tax even on temporary visa which is a significant help in needy situations.
Thanks for replying.lolo2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:38 pmWell, your statement supports all the insights you have received in this post. There is no way you would receive such benefits in the UK, as they are not available for Tier 2 visa holders.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:20 pm
This is in stark contrast to Germany where there is no concept of sponsorship and license. So anyone with a who has a job offer above a certain salary threshold (for STEM it is fairly achievable) will get a work visa or will be able to change jobs on a whim without much bureaucracy which is ironic because Germany is known for over bureaucracy. So everyone with a work visa has access to entire labour market (within his profession) so job security (which also is outstanding after probation period) is less of a concern. Moreover if anyone loses his/her job on work visa then they get 3 months of job search time with an option to extend it to 6 months as well. Germany also does not differentiate between residents and work visa holders and EVERYONE has access to entire government funds. So say if anyone is registered as unemployed then they get 60 percent of last withdrawn salary (provided they worked for atleast 1 year) till the time they get new job for 1 year and after that subsidised housing if still no job. For work visa holders it is 3 months of payment as unemployment benefit till the time they get new job. So one gets to access all the benefits paid as tax even on temporary visa which is a significant help in needy situations.
If you lose your job, you don't have access to any kind of aid. You have to deal with that with savings (if any), family or friends support.
Sorry to hear about your ordeal and congrats that you were able to overcome it. So if I may ask how was you experience finding new Tier 2 sponsor after job loss as in was it very difficult, were you able to get many interview calls from companies who had the Tier 2 license and it was just a matter you being able to clear the interviews, how is the UK job market in IT for senior devs (myself 9 years exp.) who in future may want to change employer or happen to fall in the situation as you did, how is HO to deal with, is redundancy/dismissal quite common in UK and any other insights you think could help me make an informed decision.lolo2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:38 pmI can relate to this because I have been under these circumstances in the last months.
Here is my post: uk-tier-2-employer-sponsored-visas/made ... 91207.html
Fortunately I received an offer a few days ago (after more than 5 months of being unemployed) and now I am waiting for a new visa.
Hope this helps!
According to the HO, when you lose your job, you will receive a curtailment of leave on your Tier 2 Visa. This will shorten your leave to be in the UK to 60 days or until the end of your visa, whichever is shortest. In my case, I never received that letter of curtailment after more than 5 months since I was made redundant. Sometimes people receive the letter shortly after leaving their jobs.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
In-fact I was less concerned about supporting oneself financially but more about being able to find a sponsored job in the available time as that will decide whether some can continue to reside in UK or not.
I will try to answer all your questions:simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Sorry to hear about your ordeal and congrats that you were able to overcome it. So if I may ask how was you experience finding new Tier 2 sponsor after job loss as in was it very difficult, were you able to get many interview calls from companies who had the Tier 2 license and it was just a matter you being able to clear the interviews, how is the UK job market in IT for senior devs (myself 9 years exp.) who in future may want to change employer or happen to fall in the situation as you did, how is HO to deal with, is redundancy/dismissal quite common in UK and any other insights you think could help me make an informed decision.
Again, I know that many people are saying that non-EU candidates will have more opportunities after Brexit due to a more restricted access to the EU, but that is pure speculation. It is still not clear how will be the hiring process of EU candidates after Brexit's completion. They still don't require a visa to work in the UK. A common opinion is that they will have an ease process than us, whatever is the final deal.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Sorry for asking many questions. As a PR holder of Germany and also having worked on a temporary work visa before that things like job loss, not able to find new jobs after job loss were never much of a concern in Germany so I just want to know if I were to accept this job offer from London (and also accept the uncertainties that may come along) and move on Tier 2 visa in UK (because its an english speaking country) can I atleast expect that getting new sponsored jobs when time warrants in dire situation is possible especially after Brexit and companies may not have access to EU? Is it worth it? (I would like to point out that I am also struggling here because of the German language and all the problem it brings in daily lives)
It really is a choice between ease of daily lives in UK (due to language) but uncertainties in residency as job are fragile vs a guaranteed residency in Germany (and EU access) but with a real language problem and all the problems it brings in daily lives. Hope to hear
In my opinion it's not worth the move at this point in time as you already have German PR and are already so close to German Citizenship. If you have a typical family size of say four people the cost of a 5 year Tier 2 general for you and your dependents will run to £12800 by my calculation. After the 5 years the ILR and the citizenship applications will cost another £14300 on top of that. This grand total fee of over £27K has been calculated on current prices and thus assumes all fees and surcharges (like the IHS surcharge) do not change. It's a large amount of money to spend and only really worth it if you feel your long term earnings and quality of life in the UK will far exceed your long term earnings in Germany.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:07 pmYes in next 2.5 to 3 years I can apply for citizenship if I can attain German B1 and clear the integration test so in a way that is possible just that it is difficult to learn a language and become conversational in that especially if one is working and have a family.
Also any reason "Brexit" is relevant for my case as I am non EU citizen anyway?
Well the quality of life will always be higher in places where you speak the language and can integrate in the society so UK would rank higher in this case (just for the language)JohndoesUK wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:01 pmif you feel your long term earnings and quality of life in the UK will far exceed your long term earnings in Germany.
It is not difficult to obtain ILR on tier 2, provided you meet the requirements, which really are minimal (still employed and for 'foreseeable future', salary, absence limits, Life in the UK test, English requirement if applicable).move to UK on Tier 2 atleast I need to know whether reaching ILR is very difficult or not that much difficult.
Thanks for taking time to respond. Actually I was asking more about the 5 years journey from restrictive Tier 2 to ILR and not about the paperwork required for ILR.CR001 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:01 pmIt is not difficult to obtain ILR on tier 2, provided you meet the requirements, which really are minimal (still employed and for 'foreseeable future', salary, absence limits, Life in the UK test, English requirement if applicable).move to UK on Tier 2 atleast I need to know whether reaching ILR is very difficult or not that much difficult.
The majority of members who post make it to ILR without any issues, regardless of whether they change jobs and sponsors.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:08 pmThanks for taking time to respond. Actually I was asking more about the 5 years journey from restrictive Tier 2 to ILR and not about the paperwork required for ILR.CR001 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:01 pmIt is not difficult to obtain ILR on tier 2, provided you meet the requirements, which really are minimal (still employed and for 'foreseeable future', salary, absence limits, Life in the UK test, English requirement if applicable).move to UK on Tier 2 atleast I need to know whether reaching ILR is very difficult or not that much difficult.
Do most of the people who have Tier 2 visa transition 5 years period and make it to a qualifying ILR status or the journey is difficult due to redundancies (saw many questions about that on this forum), job not suitable (and unable to find new Tier 2 sponsor and so moved somewhere else outside UK), restricted life on T2 visa etc.
Thanks for sharing the journey. It is very helpful to get practical insights.lolo2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:03 pmAccording to the HO, when you lose your job, you will receive a curtailment of leave on your Tier 2 Visa. This will shorten your leave to be in the UK to 60 days or until the end of your visa, whichever is shortest. In my case, I never received that letter of curtailment after more than 5 months since I was made redundant. Sometimes people receive the letter shortly after leaving their jobs.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
In-fact I was less concerned about supporting oneself financially but more about being able to find a sponsored job in the available time as that will decide whether some can continue to reside in UK or not.
Everyone is different, some find another job quicker than others. I think that the situation has been more difficult than usual in the last year due to uncertainty about Brexit and general elections on December. Hope everything starts to be less uncertain this year.
I will try to answer all your questions:simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Sorry to hear about your ordeal and congrats that you were able to overcome it. So if I may ask how was you experience finding new Tier 2 sponsor after job loss as in was it very difficult, were you able to get many interview calls from companies who had the Tier 2 license and it was just a matter you being able to clear the interviews, how is the UK job market in IT for senior devs (myself 9 years exp.) who in future may want to change employer or happen to fall in the situation as you did, how is HO to deal with, is redundancy/dismissal quite common in UK and any other insights you think could help me make an informed decision.
- I started applying for jobs even before I received the redundancy letter. I got many calls/emails at the beginning, but there was a point where didn't get any in days or even weeks. For the records, I sent more than 200 applications in about 6 months.
- I got some phone and face to face interviews along this time, don't remember how many. I also received good feedbacks from them, but the common response was related to my visa situation. In my case, I put this information on the header of my CV (Tier 2 visa holder) since the beginning.
- IT professionals appear on the shortage occupation list (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... ation-list), so it would be easy to find a job in the sector. I am not an IT person, but my occupation is on that list as well. However, it was very difficult for me to get an offer.
- The HO will be dealing with the curtailment of your previous visa and the renewal of the new one after you find a new position. They do not have anything to do while you are unemployed or the reason why you lost your job (unless it is an unlawful practice).
- I can't say too much about how common is redundancy / dismissal in the UK. I have been in this country for a couple of years so far. However, I have heard from British colleagues that this has been more common in recent months/years. It can happen in any sector or company with no previous notice.
Again, I know that many people are saying that non-EU candidates will have more opportunities after Brexit due to a more restricted access to the EU, but that is pure speculation. It is still not clear how will be the hiring process of EU candidates after Brexit's completion. They still don't require a visa to work in the UK. A common opinion is that they will have an ease process than us, whatever is the final deal.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:10 pm
Sorry for asking many questions. As a PR holder of Germany and also having worked on a temporary work visa before that things like job loss, not able to find new jobs after job loss were never much of a concern in Germany so I just want to know if I were to accept this job offer from London (and also accept the uncertainties that may come along) and move on Tier 2 visa in UK (because its an english speaking country) can I atleast expect that getting new sponsored jobs when time warrants in dire situation is possible especially after Brexit and companies may not have access to EU? Is it worth it? (I would like to point out that I am also struggling here because of the German language and all the problem it brings in daily lives)
It really is a choice between ease of daily lives in UK (due to language) but uncertainties in residency as job are fragile vs a guaranteed residency in Germany (and EU access) but with a real language problem and all the problems it brings in daily lives. Hope to hear
Personally I would see learning German as an asset instead of a barrier. That also will help you to get access to better jobs. I wouldn't quit a job for this reason, unless I don't feel happy or comfortable doing what I do or being where I am.
Cheers
It seems that you have been assessing the UK market for a few years then.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:33 pm
Also based on what you are saying looks very edgy if some people get curtailment letter earlier than other it literally is luck. Also you say "IT professionals appear on the shortage occupation list" but honestly out of all the product companies I have been in touch with in last 4.5 years hardly 5 percentage has license for sponsorship (or were willing to sponsor on Tier 2 as it is too much of hassle to them as you also said) so although it really differs from case to case but in general someone in IT could also struggle in this situation even if people say IT sector have more job (which might be true) because if we count how many of those jobs can sponsor then the number of opportunities will be significantly lower and take away advantage of bigger IT job market in UK is something I have felt.
Hello simple_explorer1, my advice is to get the German citizenship then consider moving to Ireland where you won't have any language issues. I think taking a risk by moving to the UK and, if things don't work out, getting stuck in a stressful job or being exploited by an employer who knows you don't have other options, can take its toll on you and your family.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Well the quality of life will always be higher in places where you speak the language and can integrate in the society so UK would rank higher in this case (just for the language)
Thanks for replying. Yeah being stuck with the employer and fully depending on them for residence status is tricky as is. I am based in Berlin. Where are you planning to move?MarbleMarch wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:27 pmHello simple_explorer1, my advice is to get the German citizenship then consider moving to Ireland where you won't have any language issues. I think taking a risk by moving to the UK and, if things don't work out, getting stuck in a stressful job or being exploited by an employer who knows you don't have other options, can take its toll on you and your family.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Well the quality of life will always be higher in places where you speak the language and can integrate in the society so UK would rank higher in this case (just for the language)
Where abouts in Germany are you? I'm considering moving from Canada to Europe...
Yes the competition is extremely high for those limited positions available for sponsorships. Also as you said luck and willingness of the companies.lolo2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:51 pmIt seems that you have been assessing the UK market for a few years then.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:33 pm
Also based on what you are saying looks very edgy if some people get curtailment letter earlier than other it literally is luck. Also you say "IT professionals appear on the shortage occupation list" but honestly out of all the product companies I have been in touch with in last 4.5 years hardly 5 percentage has license for sponsorship (or were willing to sponsor on Tier 2 as it is too much of hassle to them as you also said) so although it really differs from case to case but in general someone in IT could also struggle in this situation even if people say IT sector have more job (which might be true) because if we count how many of those jobs can sponsor then the number of opportunities will be significantly lower and take away advantage of bigger IT job market in UK is something I have felt.
And yes, it's a matter of luck. At the end, our experience/qualifications do not matter if a sponsor is not willing to do the process for any reason.
Another thing I perceived during my journey was that some hiring managers or companies tend to hire candidates with certain nationalities. Which is unfair and could even be illegal (a form of nepotism), but I am not in a position to change or fix this. It's a job of the Home Office to investigate this further.
Regarding the IT market, it certainly is one of the most important and fastest growing field right now, but it also has more qualified candidates. When I studied my Masters, we were 10 students in my class (Energy Engineering), while in the Computer Science programme, there were more than 300 postgraduate students so I'm sure the competition is extremely high.
My first choice is the UK because of the language. But I also speak French so I'm considering France and Belgium as well.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:11 pmThanks for replying. Yeah being stuck with the employer and fully depending on them for residence status is tricky as is. I am based in Berlin. Where are you planning to move?
Cool. You can take a lot of risk as you have a safe fallback even though you would also work on Tier 2. I definitely don't have that safe fallback so its always a full risk if I choose that path. Do you already have a job or are planning to apply for jobs in UK?MarbleMarch wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:48 pmMy first choice is the UK because of the language. But I also speak French so I'm considering France and Belgium as well.simple_explorer1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:11 pmThanks for replying. Yeah being stuck with the employer and fully depending on them for residence status is tricky as is. I am based in Berlin. Where are you planning to move?