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BOC and Stateless cause by solicitor's fault. Need helps.

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mick500
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BOC and Stateless cause by solicitor's fault. Need helps.

Post by mick500 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:48 pm

hi all, wish anybody can help or advise me as I am in very difficult situation and in a mess cause by my solicitor.

Came to UK from Malaysia on 11 sept 2001 on student visa with husband and 3 children.
student visa expired - 30 oct 2004.
Renew visa sept 04 - rejected on dec 04 dec because never produce bank statement.
appeal in Jan 06 through citizen bureau.
Met a solicitor and advise to cancel the appeal and apply BOC March 2005.
After ten days, I received my BOC passport 21 Mar 2005.
Submited for ILR in 28 May 05 by solicitor.
Renouce Malaysian passport in Aug 2005 base on solicitor advise! Malaysia authority confirm in April 2006.

My question will be:-

1. when my clock stop ?
2. what is my best solution/route to go now as coming sept , 7 years. child conssesion?
3. what should I do with my solicitor?
5. If i get removal, I am stateless, which country will accept me?
6. any advise/information from you all

thank you. hope to get somewhere from here.
Last edited by mick500 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paulp
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Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:34 pm

Post by paulp » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:20 pm

Your 10-year ILR clock stopped in Mar-May 05 when you cancelled your appeal.

It may be difficult to register yourself as a British Citizen because you made yourself intentionally stateless.

JAJ
Moderator
Posts: 3977
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:29 pm
Australia

Re: BOC and Stateless cause by solicitor's fault. Need helps

Post by JAJ » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:00 am

mick500 wrote: 2. what is my best solution/route to go now as coming sept , 7 years. child conssesion?
3. my daughter (born 1996 in UK with UK birth cert.) will represent england in tournament at europe on 2 april. currently, no visa. any chance to extend to end of april from HO?
thinking of applying for BOC/BC as I have a BOC passport
4. what should I do with my solicitor?
5. If i get removal, I am stateless, which country will accept me?
6. any advise/information from you all
You are not eligible to register as a British citizen under s4B of the British Nationality Act 1981 as you made yourself stateless after 4 July 2002. It's also open to question whether you are really stateless. From the Home Office Nationality Instructions:


" ... The Constitution of the Federation of Malaysia provides that Malaysian citizens may by order be deprived of citizenship if:

• they have acquired citizenship of any country outside the Federation either by registration, naturalisation or other voluntary and formal act (Clause 24(1)); or
• they have voluntarily claimed and exercised, in a foreign country, any rights available to them under that country’s laws where those rights are accorded exclusively to that country’s citizens (Clause 24(2))

2.11.2 Under Clause 24(3A) of the Constitution, a person is deemed to have claimed and exercised a right mentioned in Clause 24(2) if, after 10 October 1963, he or she either:

a. applies to the authorities of a place outside the Federation for the issue or renewal of a passport; or
b. uses a passport issued by the authorities of a place outside the Federation as a travel document

2.11.3 It had been our previous understanding, and the Malaysian government’s position, that acquisition of a BOC passport by a Malaysian citizen was sufficient justification for the deprivation of Malaysian citizenship.

2.11.4 However on 21 February 2005 in the case of Lee Thean Hock, Judicial Review number 25-64-2004 the Penang (Malaysia) High Court took a different view. The Court drew a distinction between the acquisition of a British citizen passport, which could justify deprivation under Article 24(2) of the Constitution, and the acquisition of a BOC passport, which could not.
2.11.5 For the purposes of s.4B(2)(b) BNA 1981, it can no longer be assumed that the holder of a BOC passport has lost any claim s/he might otherwise have had to Malaysian citizenship. We require to see evidence from the Malaysian authorities, dated post 21 February 2005 to take into account the court ruling, that the applicant does not hold Malaysian citizenship and has not, after 4 July 2002, given up or done anything to prompt the deprivation of that citizenship."



All that said if you are stateless then you cannot be removed or sent anywhere (and you should not leave the U.K. voluntarily).

I doubt your daughter will be able to travel anytime soon without a valid passport + re-entry visa for the U.K. At least get professional advice on this.

for professional advice, try Laura Devine: http://www.lauradevine.com

paulp
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Post by paulp » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:30 am

mick, you said that you renounced your malaysian passport. Did you actually ask for your malaysian passport to be cancelled or did you officially renounce Malaysian citizenship?

mick500
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:14 pm

Post by mick500 » Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:31 am

Thanks JAJ and Paulp for yr reply.
I have a letter from Malaysian Gov stating it. Therefore, I am officially stateless by M'sia Gov and do not accept dual nationality. So, when I have my BOC and renouce my M'sia passport. so, am i being advise competently by my solicitor? I always thought let solicitors do the work for me ( their letter to HO will carry more weight, i thought) but i m totally wrong. Letter from them to HO are a joke, totally broken.if solicitors cant write good english. how's about their clients! Beware of cowboy immigration solicitors.

penanglad
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Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:06 pm

Post by penanglad » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:20 pm

Mick

Did your solicitor apply for exceptional/discretionary leave to remain (ELR) or indefinite leave to remain (ILR)?

The situation with BOCs who are otherwise stateless and non-returnable (in "limbo") is detailed below. You may wish to consult another solicitor who may be able to advise whether you can apply for discretionary exceptional leave to remain.

If you can show that the Malaysian government will not re-admit you as a permanent resident, then you may be able to apply. However, this is discretionary and there is no right of appeal, and they will not want to give ELR to someone who deliberately renounced their citizenship to evade immigration control
8
9. DISCRETIONARY LEAVE AND "LIMBO"

In some cases a BOC will claim that his nationality obliges the UK to allow him to
remain. In considering such cases we must be aware that no country routinely
accepts non-citizens and that we cannot force a BOC to go somewhere else. There
is a balance between those who genuinely find themselves with nowhere to go and
those seeking to circumvent the Immigration Rules.

UKPH applicants who make an application for exceptional LTR/ILR and have no
claim to remain under the Rules are to be refused unless there are compelling
compassionate circumstances present or there is clear evidence of non-returnability.
(See paragraph 9.1).

Applications made for a purpose not covered by the Rules should be refused under
paragraph 322(1). This will attract the right of appeal if the application is in time.

9.1. Granting discretionary leave

Discretionary leave for a period of 6 years (3 years followed by 3 years) may be
granted to British Overseas citizens and other UKPHs only if one of the following
factors are present:-

• There is clear evidence of compassionate circumstances. This should be
assessed according to the individual merits of the case but discretion would
normally only be granted in wholly exceptional circumstances. Cases should not
be agreed below Senior Caseworker level.

or

• There is clear evidence of the persons non-returnability. This should take the
form of a letter from the appropriate authorities of the country of normal residence
confirming the person's non-returnability, e.g. a refusal to issue a re-entry visa.
The applicant should also be asked for a copy of his/her application to those
IDI Nov/04 CH22 SECT2 – UNITED KINGDOM PASSPORTS
authorities if available. Cases should not be agreed below Senior Caseworker
level.

Subsequent grants, of exceptional leave, including the grant of ILR, may be approved
at EO level if the circumstances remain the same.

In all cases the onus is on the applicant to provide the necessary evidence.
Prolonged enquiries are to be avoided. All relevant questions should be asked in a
single letter of enquiry. Failure to reply to such a letter within 4 weeks should trigger
the usual reminder followed by a refusal if there is still no reply after a further 28
days.

A person who refuses to apply for a re-entry visa to the country in which he is
normally resident should not be given discretionary leave. The expectation must be
that UKPHs will apply for the equivalent of returning resident or settlement visas and
those who manage to obtain these should not be granted discretionary leave.

There will be cases where a visit visa is issued to enable a compassionate or other
visit to take place. In these circumstances it would be wrong to withhold
discretionary leave, providing they are able to produce evidence as set out above to
satisfactorily demonstrate that they are not returnable to their country of origin for the
purpose of settlement. This applies equally to first time applicants and those who
have already had XLTR for a number of years, and have since been issued with a
visit visa. Where a person has held XLTR for a number of years the evidence of the
refused settlement visa should be recent. All cases where a visit visa has been
issued should be referred to at least Senior Caseworker level.

ILR may be granted after 6 years have been spent in this category assuming the
circumstances remain the same. The initial grant of discretionary leave should be for
3 years, followed by a further 3 years and, after 6 years, ILR.

9.2. No right of appeal and dismissed appeals

In cases where UKPHs fail to embark after refusal where there is no right of appeal
or where there is a right of appeal and the appeal has been dismissed, the usual
warning letter should be sent and the file should be passed speedily to EPU for
deportation consideration.

9.3. Applying the limbo policy

The so-called limbo policy is applicable only after the exhaustion of all the usual
administrative processes, including deportation. Only after EPU have decided that
further deportation action is not appropriate or feasible, or illegal entry action has
been abandoned, should consideration be given to applying the limbo policy.

If it is decided that the status of the UKPH should not be regularised, the applicant
should be notified in writing of their position under the limbo policy. ANNEX C
provides a copy of a stock letter which may be used for this purpose. The
applicant has no right of appeal against the decision not to regularise their stay.

Wanderer
Diamond Member
Posts: 10511
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:46 pm
Ireland

Post by Wanderer » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:04 pm

The way I read it is the OP made himself stateless by taking BOC, the Malaysian gov merely confirmed he has therefore lost his Malaysian Citizenship.

The UK acknowledges his BOC but deny he is elligible for BC/ILR cos he made himself stateless.

Am I right?
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

mick500
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:14 pm

Post by mick500 » Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:32 pm

Thank guys for all yr reply.

Penanglad - apply under ILR.

Malaysia High Comm had written to me and stated that if i go back Malaysia, I will be issue a 30 days visitor visa only , this mean, i willl not be re-admit as a PR, right.

Wanderer - What is OP?

JAJ
Moderator
Posts: 3977
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:29 pm
Australia

Post by JAJ » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:51 pm

mick500 wrote:Malaysia High Comm had written to me and stated that if i go back Malaysia, I will be issue a 30 days visitor visa only , this mean, i willl not be re-admit as a PR, right.

Wanderer - What is OP?
OP = Original Poster.

If you have made yourself otherwise stateless, then as a BOC then the U.K. will probably have to give you residence at some stage, as you can't be deported anywhere. But don't expect this to be simple or quick.

And in the meantime you should not be thinking about going anywhere, as otherwise you could be stuck outside the U.K.. Most countries won't accept the BOC passport without a visa anyhow.

mick500
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:14 pm

Post by mick500 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:41 am

Thank JAJ
Ii have only out from UK for 28 dayst since Sept 2001, i.e. jan 2003. So, I will stay low and hope for the approval. when do you think i should reapply again.?

penanglad
Junior Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:06 pm

Post by penanglad » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:50 am

Mick - you will automatically qualify for ILR after 14 years, but that is a long time not to be able to travel. I don't know when you should apply for ELR, you should perhaps contact a solicitor.

JAJ
Moderator
Posts: 3977
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:29 pm
Australia

Post by JAJ » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:23 am

penanglad wrote: ... you should perhaps contact a solicitor.
Apparently a solicitor was the starting point of his difficulties.

paulp
Diamond Member
Posts: 1071
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:34 pm

Post by paulp » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:10 am

JAJ wrote:Apparently a solicitor was the starting point of his difficulties.
Well, he should get a good one then.

mick500
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:14 pm

Post by mick500 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:49 pm

Yes, i make a mistake in choosing a solicitor, although a reputable one with 3/4 branches in England.
Anyway, i cant turn back the clock, so , move forward and do more research on my own rather than just nod my head with what the solicitor say.
I shall apply for my children 7th year consession stay in UK by end of the year. This will be my best solution. Any comment? Any 'good' solicitors?
Thanks guys.

ben_scaro
Newbie
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:57 pm

Post by ben_scaro » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:27 am

paulp wrote:Your 10-year ILR clock stopped in Mar-May 05 when you cancelled your appeal.

It may be difficult to register yourself as a British Citizen because you made yourself intentionally stateless.
Does the ILR clock for the ten year lawful residence stop when a person does somethng like vary or resubmit a claim, for example if a BOC goes for citizenship and the claim is rejected and they are advised by the HO to resubmit an ILR claim to Croydon ?

I would have thought that if one was doing it under advice from the HO, it might imply that the person's residence was still lawful while they made the new claim ? Presumably if a claim for citizenship is rejected then there's an appeal period - but I am not sure if that automatically applies as section 3c or 3d 'in time'.

I note that for the 14 year rule there are a number of specific events that are explicitly deemed to stop the clock - but I cannot find anything similar for the ten year rule.

Ben

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