Patronymic name - passport application issue.

[glosnat]

Hello all,
I have an issue with the patronymic name with my son’s passport application.
He was born in the UK and in his UK birth certificate there is a patronymic name (together with the given name). The reason is that the Russian embassy cannot issue documents without a patronymic name if there is no in a birth certificate. Got a Russian passport for him with name, patronymic name and surname in Russian and just name and surname in English. Got BRP with name and surname, got ILR with the name and surname only, applied for registration as a British and put just name and surname in his application and got the certificate of registration as a BC…. with the patronymic name.
Ok, called to HMPO 3 times to 3 different persons and they confirmed that we should put in the application Name and Surname only, but write a letter explaining the patronymic issue, so we did.
Today I got a letter from HMPO saying that they:
1. cannot issue a passport if you hold a different name on a foreign passport.
2. to issue a passport without a patronymic name I should send them registration certificate (as BC) without the patronymic name.
They returned only his certificate and not Russian passport. So we stuck).

Should I ask HO to change the registration certificate as I mentioned in the application?
If it will take time – can I ask HMPO to issue his British passport with the patronymic name (as in Russian passport he has this patronymic name in Russian)?
Any advice will be highly appreciated. Thank you.

[AnotherUUID]

This is a very common issue for dual nationals who need to have a patronymic in one of their countries of citizenship. In such countries the patronymic is not really part of the name at all and is often explicitly listed as such in its own separate field as "patronymic" or "father's name".

Unfortunately, no matter the reality that a "patronymic" isn't part of the name, as far as British authorities are concerned, your son's patronymic is part of their name as it is included on their other passport and/or other official identity documents such as an ID card. Most often it will be considered as a "middle" name and is usually put down along side their first name in the "Given names" entry of the passport.

HMPO will not issue a passport where the name does not match the other (Russian) passport and there is absolutely nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. The rule is there allegedly to prevent identity fraud where the same person can have passports under different names. You are making it harder for yourself and your son by trying to work around the issue.

There is one thing you may be able to try. It may be able to get an official letter from the Russian authorities stating that the patronymic is part of the name and cannot be changed under any circumstances. HMPO may then choose to use discretion and issue a passport with first and last names only while putting a note in the observations page which will read something akin to "Also known as First Patronymic Last". However, there is no guarantee that HMPO will exercise this discretion and may still refuse the application.

You can always apply to HMPO with your son's patronymic put down under "middle name". This will be added to the "Given name(s)" field and will match what is on the Russian passport.

I am not sure whether it is prudent to change the registration certificate if born in the UK. At the end of the day it's the Russian authorities who are "adapting" a foreign national's naming conventions to match the local conventions as part said national's acquisition of Russian citizenship. Maybe a more experienced member here can shed a light on whether it's worth changing it.

[glosnat]

Thank you for your reply.

In his Russian passport he has in English only name and surname, patronymic name only in russian(there are 2 languages in russian passports)
Not sure, but it might be an option to ask HO to change his certificate of registration as BC, because in all his BRPs, ILR he had only name and surname.
Another option can be to make a deed poll with the name and surname only and send old registration certificate and Deed poll to HMPO.
What do you think?
Thanks.

[AnotherUUID]

I'm afraid I can't really be of more help as your case is a bit convoluted due to inconsistencies between the different documents.

Has HMPO told you they would have an issue if you were to apply for a passport that includes the patronymic as a middle name given that the patronymic isn't listed in Latin characters on the Russian passport? If so, this would be easily resolved by applying for a new Russian passport that includes the patronymic in Latin as listed on the registration certificate. To me this seems like the simplest solution as the name will match both that of the registration certificate and that on the Russian passport (in Latin) and you will save yourself a lot of hassle. Once your son turns 18 they can then decide for themselves how and if they want to drop their patronymic and deal with the issue themselves as they see fit. Your son's ILR is irrelevant at this point since it is no longer valid once they were registered as British as British citizen cannot hold valid leave.

If you want to update the name on UK issued documents it becomes tricky. I'm not sure it would be possible to update the certificate of registration. Just like a naturalisation certificate for an adult, things like birth certificates and registration certificates usually mark a "fixed event" in a person's life as they were known at that point in time, so unless the name printed there was due to an administrative/clerical error, I'm not sure they can be changed retroactively. If this is the way you want to go your best option would be to discuss the matter with HO directly so that they can confirm whether or not you can make such amendments, unless someone here can advise with a bit more insight.

An enrolled deed poll would allow them to use the new name (e.g. w/o patronymic) for future purposes from the date of enrollment and would likely resolve the RC naming issue with HMPO but they might still be unsatisfied with the way the name is listed in the Russian passport, if they decide to hold the Cyrillic spelling (w/ patronymic) against the applicant and not exercise above discretion. In this case it would be difficult to do anything about it if the Russian authorities require a patronymic to be listed in Cyrillic, making your son's situation worse.

On a side note, I find it very surprising that the Russian authorities issued a passport that does not list the patronymic in Latin but does so in Cyrillic. My circumstances are somewhat similar and my other country of citizenship allows for spelling amendments but would not allow any significant mismatch in the name between Latin/Cyrillic such as omission of the patronymic. Their response is usually "we do things here based on our rules, if the UK doesn't like it you will have to deal with them yourself". Of course, HMPO will say the same from a British standpoint and both authorities would be right in their own way.

Citizens from many Spanish-speaking countries also face similar passport issues with things like having one given name but culturally have multiple surnames. I guess these are one of the issues of having dual citizenship.

[glosnat]

In the letter from HMPO they wrote:
In order to issue passport in the name of NAME SURNAME (my son's) , you need to change the name on registration certificate and send new one back.

So the solution looks like I need to change the certificate of BC. How?
Thank you.

[obormot]

I know of several Russian people - kids and adults - who got UK passport with NAME SURNAME + an additional note "also known as NAME Farherwich SURNAME"
But they did not have patronymic on UK citizenship certificate, only in russian passport, and in Cyrillic (but passport people discovered it and insisted on putting that note).

Alternative variant:
We just eliminated patronymics altogether.
Russian authorities actually allow you to officially change your name by suppressing patronymic (and it can be done via consulate - though it takes them 3-4 months to change the name and then another 3-4 months to issue a new passport)

I also know of people who have patronymic on both naturalisation certificate and UK passport. The fact that in Russian passport it was only written in Cyrillic did not prevent passport authorities to put it on UK passport.

But in any case, name on UK passport cannot be different from name on registration/naturalisation certificate.

[glosnat]

Thank you.
I do not want to eliminate patronymic name from his Russian passprt, but may be to ask HMPO to put Name and Surname and make a mark, known also as Name, Patronymic name, Surname is a good solution.

[obormot]

I am not sure you can do it - my impression is that name on UK passport should be the same as on UK naturalisation certificate.
So if you do not want patronymic to appear in passport as part of the main name (and not just added note), then you should change certificate first.

[obm]

Hi glosnat. BC certificate can be amended in some cases but gonna cost you £250... https://www.gov.uk/get-replacement-citi ... ertificate

Plus HO dont count BC certificate as an ID document - just a record of fact, therefore in most cases it cannot be amended as such...

As per HO own policy on One Name only - other foreign passports and names in them take precedence over any other IDs and documents. So they should have just followed name in RF passport. BUT obviously CWs interpret every application however they want... In my experience a caseworker did the same and requested patronimic change in my RF pass as per birth certificate! According to some previous posts here this is apparently to do with recent (2013) changes to ILR and visa system where they input now patronymics as well. So I had to request an email from RF embassy's (annoyed by this 100th request) consul, explaining that patronymics are NOT part of official name and are only in use in RF internally... That seemed to satisfy HO for now but I believe in each new case they will try and twist every fact the way they want as RF and its citizens are surely on HOs black list... due to sanctions etc. You know what I mean... Good luck!

PS: hi obormot can you please provide a link to RF emb "dropping patronymic via change of name via consulate" please (unless its a case of marriage)? Change of name is an internal RF procedure and requires application in person to Zags?

[glosnat]

Thank you all.
The CW gave me 3 options:
1. Change the Registration Certificate.
2. Provide a Deed poll (exclude patronomyc name).
3. They can issue a passport with the patronymic name(same as in the Certificate), even it is not in RF passport in English. I asked about it and they confirmed, even by post, that they can do it!

I think I should write a letter to HO and ask to change cerificate.

[glosnat]

Info for Russian passport holder - you can get an explanation of the Patronomyc name from the Russian Embassy in the UK within hours. Just send them an email and you will get their standard answer by email (only!) as well. In English.

Regarding my issue - decided to ask HO to change the name on the Registration Certificate.
I sent RR form and explanation to UKVI in Liverpool (Department 201, UK Visas & Immigration).
Did not get any case number and could not find any timelines for such an issue.
Their helpline did not provide any clear answers - just advice to wait.

Can anyone tell me how can I contact them, ideally the caseworker, to be sure that they got documents and opened a file?
It is good to know the timeline as well.

Thank you.

[obormot]

PS: hi obormot can you please provide a link to RF emb "dropping patronymic via change of name via consulate" please (unless its a case of marriage)? Change of name is an internal RF procedure and requires application in person to Zags?

Russian citizen can change their name legally rather easily - by applying through ZAGS.
In particular, one can simply request to eliminate patronymic (and one does not need to provide any "reasons" on why they want to do it)
Consulate in Edinburg did it for me: £75 + about 4 months waiting, and I got certificate of name change ( "свидетельство о перемене имени"), on the basis of which they gave me my new passport.
An interesting fact is that once one changes the name like this (not through marriage) russian authorities replace the ZAGS records and give you new birth certificate with new name. But it is not automatic, and long process..

[obm]

Thank you obotmot for clarification of your situation. I assume you have a settled/registered status with RF embassy in UK and so you did not need to also change your internal RF passport. In all other cases RF citizens who change names here will subsequently need to change back all their documnets in RF later as Ruemb notifies all relevant gov offices back in Russia.

[obormot]

It is indeed a bit tricky - nowadays they state that they abolished both "permanently living abroad" status, end, effectively, consulate registration. So the issue with internal passport exists for everybody who ever wants to visit Russia (and the process is to get new birth certificate and then to get new internal passport once in Russia)

[glosnat]

Got the amended Certificate of Registration from UKVI and a British passport. All without the patronymic name.