urgent help

[knapps]

I have EU fam stamp 4 on my GNIB and i want to go to Czech Republic. Can you travel on my card to any shengen country or I have to get a visa on my passport.any help???

[iamwhoever]

As long as you are travelling with your spouse or another member of your family who is an EU-national, you shouldn't need a visa; however, if you are travelling on your own, I believe you will have to apply for one. It is always best to check with the respective embassy.

If you search EUFAM on here, you will see how there are still issues with it. For example, in Germany, if the EU-national living in Ireland is a German citizens, when the family travels to Germany (if the non-EU national is a visa requiring national), they will be held to German law, not EU law. There is an example of this on here already.

To always be sure, contact the local embassy. Maybe someone else on here could offer more info.

[dan72]

knapps, u need visa to enter any other EU country since ireland is nt part of schengen state, just that u will get ur visa free without paying visa fee as spouse of eu citizen. your stamp 4 does give u right to enter EU state without having visa cos u are nt an EU citizen

[ca.funke]

knapps, u need visa to enter any other EU country since ireland is nt part of schengen state, just that u will get ur visa free without paying visa fee as spouse of eu citizen. your stamp 4 does give u right to enter EU state without having visa cos u are nt an EU citizen

Sorry for having to say it this clearly - but THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS INCORRECT

@dan72: Welcome to the Forum anyway

[ca.funke]

By law you do NOT need a visa, if you are travelling together with your spouse.

If you want to travel alone, you will need a visa



The following is valid for

• EU-Family-members (nationality irrelevant)
• travelling to any country of the Union
• together with the family-member
• in possession of an EU-4-Fam-Card issued by Ireland
• ONLY

(As a clarification: This is totally unrelated to Schengen, for the purpose of the following you can treat Schengen as if it didn't exist)

Directive, 2004/38/EC (available here), article 5, section 2, states:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa
(...)
For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.
(...)
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###

(EU-4-Fam is the Irish version of the "residence card referred to in Article 10")

The comissions' website clarifies this part as follows (towards the middle of the page):

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
YOU MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN ENTRY VISA

Family members holding nationality of certain countries[3], which are subject to visa obligation, may be required to have an entry visa.

(...)

Possession of the valid residence card, referred to in the relevant fact sheet, issued by any Member State, exempts you from the visa obligation not only in the Member State which issued the residence card, but in all Member States.
(...)
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###


However, in practice you will face 2 problems, one minor and one big:

Problem 1 - the big problem:

You have to make it into the airplane! Not all staff-members of all airlines are fully aware of the above regulations. They might (unlawfully) refuse you boarding. In this case you have a time-problem, as the plane will leave and you may not have time to convince the clerk that you are eligible for boarding. Result: You miss the plane. If you want compensation for this you will have to go through the courts as the airline will, of course, deny their responsibility.

Problem 2 - the minor one:

Once you arrive to your destination you have to convince the border-guard that the above is actually so. Some know, some don't. Take your marriage-certificate and a copy of the law in the local language with you. This will facilitate things. In the worst-case-scenario it'll take a while.

[Christophe]

Knapps, it's also worth asking, what nationality are you? Not all citizens of non-EU/EEA countries need a visa or other pre-entry clearance to travel to the Schengen area countries or the UK (or Ireland) in any case...

[dan72]

i disagreed with u ca.funke, EF4 does nt give ur right to enter Schengen unless if u are from visa free country u need to apply for visa to enter other member state, it is only eu-spouse lived in schengen state has right to travel to all schengen without visa (Britian and irlenad) refused to be part of schengen i came from greece with Efm resident card still i was ask to apply for visa before entering ireland and britian but i was travelling freely to Germany, spain, italy, Poland Czech etc without visa cos my resident card was issued in greece which is member of schengen.

"If you are national of a state that is subject to the visa requirement, you should apply for such a visa in the country where you come from or with which you have a link (e.g. you reside there).

The Member State of destination should grant you every facility to obtain the necessary visa, which shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure. In any event, even in the most difficult cases, the visa should be issued no later than a couple of weeks following the date of application"

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[ca.funke]

i disagreed with u ca.funke, EF4 does nt give ur right to enter Schengen unless if u are from visa free country u need to apply for visa to enter other member state, it is only eu-spouse lived in schengen state has right to travel to all schengen without visa (Britian and irlenad) refused to be part of schengen i came from greece with Efm resident card still i was ask to apply for visa before entering ireland and britian but i was travelling freely to Germany, spain, italy, Poland Czech etc without visa cos my resident card was issued in greece which is member of schengen.

"If you are national of a state that is subject to the visa requirement, you should apply for such a visa in the country where you come from or with which you have a link (e.g. you reside there).

The Member State of destination should grant you every facility to obtain the necessary visa, which shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure. In any event, even in the most difficult cases, the visa should be issued no later than a couple of weeks following the date of application"

You did not read in detail what I wrote above.

Sorry to tell you - but most of what you are writing here is - again - incorrect.

I do not see the specific points you are making, I will try to isolate them:

i disagreed with u ca.funke, EF4 does nt give ur right to enter Schengen unless if u are from visa free country u need to apply for visa to enter other member state

I am writing above, in great detail, as to why and under which circumstances EU-Spouses have the right to travel throughout the EU. This has nothing to do with Schengen. Could you please substantiate why you disagree?

it is only eu-spouse lived in schengen state has right to travel to all schengen without visa

Yes - this is a Schengen-rule, and does not have anything to do with 2004/38/EC, which I am referring to above. By the way: All people living legally in Schengen may travel Schengen-wide, this is not limited to EU-spouses. (To be precise there are very few exceptions, but I don't know all of them, and they are not worth mentioning here)

(Britian and irlenad) refused to be part of schengen

That's why in these cases 2004/38/EC applies. The same is true for Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus, all of which are in the EU, but not in Schengen.

i came from greece with Efm resident card still i was ask to apply for visa before entering ireland and britian

EU-spouses with a residence-card from Greece can enter the UK and Ireland, as per description above. If they asked you for a visa this was either not correct, or you wanted to apply for a visa for permanent residency.

but i was travelling freely to Germany, spain, italy, Poland Czech etc without visa cos my resident card was issued in greece which is member of schengen.

This is correct, but again Schengen-internal and has nothing to do with the above.

"If you are national of a state that is subject to the visa requirement, you should apply for such a visa in the country where you come from or with which you have a link (e.g. you reside there).

The Member State of destination should grant you every facility to obtain the necessary visa, which shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure. In any event, even in the most difficult cases, the visa should be issued no later than a couple of weeks following the date of application"

Here you are citing from the source I provided, but your citation has no relevance to the case discussed in this thread or to what you are writing.

It would be lovely to hear the details as to why you think I am wrong. I'm open to correction.

[robby1]

all above information is not correct, i am in possestion of e.u fam 4 residence card, i have checked with all schengen states embassies in dublin u need visa for most of d schengen states as non-e u citizen family member of u e citizen as per state requirments... but for germany, sapin,belgium and latvia u do not need visa ,only in case IF YoU ARE TRAVELLING WITH UR E.U CITIZEN FAMILY MEMBER, providing your eu fam 4 res card with proof of relation marriage cert or birth cert to immigration authorities of these perticular states and they are well aware of this regulation but you better inquire with these states embassies by e mail and take copy of the e mail reply with u to show airline staff or any other concern authorities as your proof of right to travel with ur e u family member without requirment of visa.
BUT REMEMBER YOU STILL NEED VISA FOR THESE 4 COUNTRIES IF YOU ARE TRAVELLING ON UR ON WITHIOUT UR E.U FAMILY MEMBER.....
ANY FUTHER QUIRES REPLY.
ROBBY

[ca.funke]

all above information is not correct

May I ask why you think I am not correct?

Most embassies just don't know about the above, which does not change that it ALWAYS applies.

[iamwhoever]

What if the family are not EU nationals?

For family members who are not EU nationals travelling with an EU citizen, the Member State(s) to or through which travel takes place may require an entry visa, depending on the nationality of the individuals concerned. This visa should be granted free of charge and without undue formalities by the relevant consular authorities.

Family members who are not nationals of an EU Member State are not entitled to the visa arrangements mentioned above when travelling alone. The freedoms already mentioned apply to non-EU national family members only when they travel with an EU citizen. Non-EU nationals who wish to travel alone within the EU have to comply with the normal visa, if required, and other requirements for their nationality.

However, family members who are not EU nationals do not require an entry visa if they reside in an EU country that has signed the Schengen Agreement and wish to travel to another Schengen country. In this case, they may travel freely and without a visa within the Schengen area, provided they are in possession of their identity document and residence permit.

Europa-Rights to Travel

1. As a spouse of and EU-National with a Stamp 4 EUFAM, you have the right to travel within the EU with your spouse.

2. If your residence card is from a Schengen country, then you will never need a visa to travel within the Schengen area.

3. If you are not resident in the Schengen area and are a citizen of a country where you a visa is required, you must apply for a visa; however, if you are travelling with your EU spouse, the visa will be issued free of charged in accordance with the EU directive which gives the EU national the freedom to travel and reside in any member state.

4. If you are not resident in the Schengen area and are a citizen of a country where a visa is not required, then you are free to travel with your EU spouse, residence card and passport.

Bottom line, due to the fact the the EU national has the right to travel and reside in any member state, the family members of the EU-national who has a residence card (EUFAM) will be given permission to enter any of the member states free of charge. Yes, a visa may be required, but it will be issued and issued free of charge.

[archigabe]

E.U States that Allow Visa free Travel for E.U Fam

[knapps]

dear guys, thanks a million of all the posts and information..i got email from czech emabassy dublin today they said yeah i have to apply for shengen visa in order to go to Czech Republic with my wife. So, I have asked them about the requirements, documents they need and also if i have to go from cork to dublin to apply in person..let's wait for the reply but bottom line i need Visa.

[HOTSPURS]

It's wise to apply for Visa..Atleast the Visa fees for Single-entry or Multiple entry (60/100 Euros) would be waived for the Spouse/relative !
Better safe than sorry..

[dan72]

ca.Funke STOP GIVEN FALSE INFORMATION AND READ FROM Robby1 and iamwhoever (u need visa to enter Schengen State) unles if u are from visa free country (period)

[ca.funke]

ca.Funke STOP GIVEN FALSE INFORMATION AND READ FROM Robby1 and iamwhoever (u need visa to enter Schengen State) unles if u are from visa free country (period)

I do not reply to accusations.

However, I dare to say I have at least some idea of what I am talking about.

May I, again, ask you to substantiate as to why you think I am giving wrong information?

Simply repeating over and over again that you think I am wrong won't help.

"iamwhoever" is right, I am right too, and we are not contradicting each other.

Just a little example:

...As a spouse of and EU-National with a Stamp 4 EUFAM, you have the right to travel within the EU with your spouse...

I am wrong sometimes, but then I admit it, think about it, and develop new arguments.

In this case you are wrong and abusive. This is, IMHO, not helpful.

[ciaramc]

dan; I don't think Ca Funke is giving wrong information he is correct in the sense that if you travel with your Non EU spouse in Europe , you are not requird by the directive to get one!

It is just that some countries are interpreting the directive as they want!!!

If you go for example to the Czech republic with your EU spouse and they turn you a way.... you can lodge a complaint with the EU!!! But you will also ruin your holiday!

But if you apply for a visa every time .....you are letting the embassies get away from doing their jobs properly! Which should be advising spouses of EU citizens that they do not require a visa!

[ca.funke]

Thank you, ciaramc, for the backup.

Comments like this can lead to a fruitful discussion - except I have nothing to add - thanks for the input - you described in much easier words what I wanted to say.

[robby1]

knapps i will advice you to fly direct from cork to germany and book any cheap ticket from germany to czech, this is more convinent and inexpensive and in this way you don't need any visa any hassel to travel upto dublin for visa stuff, still u better know ur situation..

[ca.funke]

For practical terms, I think it depends a lot on who happens to check your passport. (How much does this specific guy/girl know about the laws that govern his work, and how cocky is s/he about what s/he thinks is right...)

I recently transited at Prague airport. They publish a leaflet about the Schengen-integration of CZ, and this CZ-published leaflet mentions 2004/38/EC, and that entry with the residence-permit as discussed above is indeed easily possible.

(The flyers show blue sky with some clouds in the background and a trafficlight in the middle. They are free and available in Czech and English, just so you can easily recognise them)

So I think entry into CZ should be feasible without too much hassle.

In Germany I heard horror-stories from Hamburg and Frankfurt, while in Bremen everyone seems to fly through...

It's a big mess the Commission got us all in here... No-one is sure about anything, and a solution is not in sight.

Btw: There is a bunch of discussions about this in the "European"-section of this Forum. Experiences rank from flying-through to being arrested and deported. Specifically Spain seems to be erratic about this.

[knapps]

got a reply back today from dublin czech embassy..they want me to go in person and being spouse of eu citizen there is no visa fee all i need is marriage certificate and wife passport....i already had two shengen visa on my passport prior to my wedding....it is advisable to all of you check with the emabssy of the country you are going to...otherwise, you know how stubborn the immigration staff is

[knapps]

so, i have to apply for shengen visa...got an email from spanish embassy dublin they said my eufam stamp 4 is enough and to go to spain i dont need a visa funny, isn't it both shengen countries one requires it the other doesn't