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Will we ever be able to marry?

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé | Ancestry

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Marie B
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Location: London

Filling in the VAF2 application form

Post by Marie B » Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:09 am

Hello!

Just a quick update and a bit more advice requested. :wink:

Have been so busy planning the wedding (just two weeks to go!) that I haven't had time to worry too much about the whole settlement visa application, thankfully. :D

My fiance returned to Albania at the beginning of March through the IOM programme, he had an interview and was offered a flight for the following week so luckily no delays and no period at a detention centre. He did contact the Albanian Embassy in London but they also recommended the IOM route.

I have organised all the documentation for me to be able to marry there and most of the documents needed for his visa application once we are married. We just need a bit of advice about the VAF2 form.

We were wondering how best to fill out the section dealing with my employment status. It asks if i'm in employment, including self-employment in the UK, which I am, I'm self-employed, but then it requests a work address and an employers phone, fax and email. Should I put my own address, phone, fax and e-mail as I normally do when filling in forms as I am self-employed, or should I put my most recent employers details even though I am employed with them on a freelance basis? I have been employed with my most recent employer since November of last year but my contract ends next week, so by the time we put in his application I will no longer be contracted. I was just wondering if it would confuse people in the embassy if I write my own details there? And would it look better if I had an employer listed there instead?

The other section I'm a bit worried about is Section 7 - previous applications and travel. He has never applied for a UK visa before so has never been refused (I'm assuming applying for asylum does not count as a visa), but would he have had leave to remain cancelled when his application was refused? Are you automatically granted leave to remain while awaiting a decision or is that leave called something else? I know he was never granted anything once his application was processed I was just wondering if leave to remain is something that happens as part of the process? He was required to leave the UK so that one would be a yes, so do we have to fill in section 7.9-7.15 where it asks for further details? And do we fill in that section with details of his asylum application or do we leave it as it is requesting details about visas?

I apologise that all my questions are so specific, any advice would be appreciated. Apart from those bits the form isn't too confusing, just need to know how to fill it in for the best without witholding any information....

Thank you for all your help so far, it has been invaluable. :wink:

Kayalami
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Post by Kayalami » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:40 pm

We were wondering how best to fill out the section dealing with my employment status. It asks if i'm in employment, including self-employment in the UK, which I am, I'm self-employed, but then it requests a work address and an employers phone, fax and email. Should I put my own address, phone, fax and e-mail as I normally do when filling in forms as I am self-employed, or should I put my most recent employers details even though I am employed with them on a freelance basis? I have been employed with my most recent employer since November of last year but my contract ends next week, so by the time we put in his application I will no longer be contracted. I was just wondering if it would confuse people in the embassy if I write my own details there? And would it look better if I had an employer listed there instead?

The most important factor in any immigration application is to tell the truth more so where a specific question is asked e.g pertaining to employment. Provide details of your self employment - do you have relevant registration records presumably with your home address - business/VAT as well as NI records - Class 2 and 4 as applicable? What about any books as prepared by an accountant? No harm in including a note from your current employer - it verifies earned income if the visa officer so wishes to verify such. This should IMHO be an extra to the self employed details not in lieu of. It may be you get another contrct prior to the application being concluded. You may recall I mentioned that IMHO it will take about 2-3 months while the visa office in Tirana cross references your spouses details with the Home Office (Aslum Unit).
The other section I'm a bit worried about is Section 7 - previous applications and travel. He has never applied for a UK visa before so has never been refused (I'm assuming applying for asylum does not count as a visa), but would he have had leave to remain cancelled when his application was refused? Are you automatically granted leave to remain while awaiting a decision or is that leave called something else? I know he was never granted anything once his application was processed I was just wondering if leave to remain is something that happens as part of the process? He was required to leave the UK so that one would be a yes, so do we have to fill in section 7.9-7.15 where it asks for further details? And do we fill in that section with details of his asylum application or do we leave it as it is requesting details about visas?
Somewhat difficult to comment on this given I have no knowledge of his entry method and status thereof into the UK. I would suggest err on the side of caution and tick yes to all refusal q's - main one is 7.7 pertaining to removal/ requirement to leave. It would be useful for him to submit any paperwork pertaining to his asylum case (if he has any) with the VAF2 to expedite/ facilitate a search of his records.
I apologise that all my questions are so specific, any advice would be appreciated. Apart from those bits the form isn't too confusing, just need to know how to fill it in for the best without witholding any information....

Thank you for all your help so far, it has been invaluable.

Hoep things go well on the day.

rmberg1
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Update

Post by rmberg1 » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:45 pm

Marie,
Could you please update the information concerning your and your partner's situation?
Best regards and good luck,
Ruslan.

Marie B
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Location: London

Husband got his visa no problemo!

Post by Marie B » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:05 pm

Hello!

Sorry I did not update sooner, been so busy with post-wedding stuff, its never ending.

The wedding all went to plan, massive thunderstorm in the morning that thankfully cleared up in time, and more importantly all my documents were in order! :) Had to get certificate of no impediment from local register office in UK, cost £30 takes 21 days to get and in Albania is only valid for 31 days from date of issue. Got full UK birth certificate (£7) then went to Albanian Embassy in London and got certified translations of both, cost £30 for each document and takes 3 days. The register office in Tirana wanted the originals of all these documents 12 days before the wedding (found this out very late in the day) but I was only flying out two days before. I scanned them and e-mailed them over to my husband and luckily they accepted these until I arrived with the originals. My husband had to get a notary to certify that the originals were the same as the copies sent (day before the wedding!!) and then he was finally able to properly book a day and time for the wedding, although they had penciled us in!! :wink:

Got married in Tirana in April, friends and family all flew out and everybody had a fantastic time and all loved Albania, some are even planning return trips! Had a lovely honeymoon on the coast before heading back to Tirana to start the visa application process. My husband and I visited the British Embassy in Tirana and read all the guidance on the notice board about applying for his visa before we made his application just to double check, they had advice in both English and Albanian. Here it said I only needed to hand in 3-6 months of my bank statements and 3-6 months payslips, which was less than I had expected but as i'm self employed I decided to put in 12 months worth just in case. The only additional information was to photocopy all documents and hand photocopies in at the same time as his application.

I decided to fill in the employment section of his application form with my own details as I am registered self employed. I included 12 months payslips/invoices/contracts, a calender of employment and a breakdown of my earnings for the past year. This was backed up with 12 months bank statements. I decided not to include any documents from my accountant as they were all for the previous year, the tax year 2004-2005 having only just finished. I also included a CV.

I wrote a statement outlining my education, work experience, future prospects, earnings, accommodation, my husbands work experience and prospects and how and when we met. Everything I wrote in my statement I backed up with relevant documents including letters from friends and relatives, photographs, cards and correspondence, and all the financial stuff. I got my landlord to write a letter stating that my studio flat had been assessed by the local council as fit for two people to reside in and that he was not opposed to an additional occupant and he also sent me the original tenancy agreement to include. Also handed in wedding invitation and photos, my birth certificate, and a photocopy of the certified translation (register office had kept the original), our certificate of no impediment, our marriage certificate, a certified copy of my passport which I had got at a solicitors office (£5) in the UK, my husbands passport, his birth certificate, two passport photos of my husband and his letter from the Home Office from his original asylum application with his ref. number on.

For section 7 of the VAF2 he answered 'yes' for questions pertaining to being required to leave the UK, 'no' to questions about being refused a visa before. He filled in the 'further details' section with details of when he first applied, when he was refused and when his appeal was refused, also filled in his reference number. As you can see, this is not a straight forward process by any stretch of the imagination.

We went to the British Embassy first thing in the morning to find we were at the end of a very long queue. Strange process in Tirana where you speak to a man in a box outside who looks at applicants passport, writes down name, asks whether you have photocopies of all documents and are they seperate, has quick flick through application form and, in our case, told us we would be able to hand in his application that day but it would probably be about an hour.

Were called inside, woman behind the counter complained that we had too much stuff, didn't want wedding video or big wedding album :wink: (wouldn't fit through the post office like counter), took all the rest of the stuff, had a quick flick through application form and husbands documents. We waited outside for a decision, there were only two or three other applicants for a settlement visa while we were there but all were asked to provide more information such as their marriage certificates or mortgage documents, or told they would be contacted for an interview, we were told my husbands application was all in order, they gave us back his passport and all our photos and cards/correspondence. We were told that they would call us once they had contacted the Home Office in the UK to check that his case was closed and there was nothing outstanding against him. They said this could take up to three weeks but as long as the Home Office didn't object his visa application was straightforward. This was on the Thursday, the following Tuesday he got a phone call to say they had contacted the Home Office, everything was fine and he should return the following day with his passport to get his visa. Three working days!! I was amazed.

So now we are both back in the UK after a six week holiday, and he is finally here legally, cannot explain the relief!

I'm sorry I have written in so much detail about what we did but thought it might be of use to some of you out there. After going through this experience I think my best advise is to plan ahead as much as possible, find out from the main register office in the country you wish to marry what they need and when, I ended up getting two CNI's as the original one I got while trying to be extra organised was way out of date for their 31 day limit. Planning a wedding in this country is stressful enough without all the additional requirements of getting married abroad. Look up phone numbers for overseas register offices and phone ahead. As for the Visa application process I would recommend the same, do your homework beforehand and include everything they ask for. My situation was a bit different as i'm self-employed and thought this could be a negative factor in our case so included a years worth of financial documents, but its always better to be safe than sorry. Probably a good idea to photocopy all documents and include photocopies as well even if not requested.

The people I met while in Tirana who had problems were the ones who thought they could just go, get married and apply without really delving into what is needed. It is so much easier to get all the documents together while you are here rather than trying to get them faxed over at a later date.

It is a complicated process to go through and when I was here, working, making my wedding dress, organising my family, and sorting out all the documents for the wedding and visa application I thought it would do me in, but we survived, and had a lovely wedding in the process.

Now just have all the problems of my husband sorting out a proof of address, which seems impossible as everyone wants a proof of address before they will give you anything that can be used as a proof of address. AGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Have to say a big thank you to Kayalami without whose invaluable advise would never have attempted the whole process and would still be here dreading the day my lovely husband was to be found out and sent home to Albania.

xxxx

John
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Post by John » Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:54 pm

Marie and husband ... many congratulations it all worked out! Such a relief .... and now your husband is legally in the UK. And possibly in less than three-and-a-half years he might well be a British Citizen!

Great story! Hope you don't mind if this thread gets referred to a bit. The successful outcome will no doubt give encouragement to others in a similar situation.
John

jjustyy
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Ireland

Post by jjustyy » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:38 am

Congratulations to both of you :D

This experience surely proves you should never give up 8)

sreeni
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Post by sreeni » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:32 pm

Congratulations on your successand also another success story for this board :D, Kayalami and John are great people and they do all this for free, and much better than any solicitor or advisor. Great going guys

Kayalami
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Post by Kayalami » Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:01 pm

Marie B wrote:Have to say a big thank you to Kayalami without whose invaluable advise would never have attempted the whole process and would still be here dreading the day my lovely husband was to be found out and sent home to Albania.
Thank you for your kind comments and good to see the old adage 'All's well that ends well' come through for you. Credit for your success is not mine alone - many others have been of immense support and I thank them too. Likewise I am sure the entire board joins me in congratulating you and wishes you a happy and long marriage. Our very best wishes to both of you for the future.

Warmest regards - K.

elvis1
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Post by elvis1 » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:40 am

Congrats and all the best for the future Marie.

I hope that our visa application goes as smoothly.

Andrew

rmberg1
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How long did you wait for you passport back?

Post by rmberg1 » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:41 pm

Hi Marie!
Please, could you tell me how long did it take your husband to leave the UK through the IOM?
Regards,
rmberg

hmm
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Post by hmm » Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:19 pm

from my experience IOM will only take a week to get you a ticket and emergency passport to return to your home country. much faster but difficult to get hold of them on the phone, very busy so best to go in person to IOM office

Marie B
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Post by Marie B » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:15 pm

Hi rmberg,

It didn't take long at all. We imagined it would take at least two weeks so he went along two weeks before he wanted to travel. That was a Tuesday. He had a message left on his phone just two days later, on the Thursday, but when he rang back the office was closed for the day. When he did manage to contact IOM the next day they told him they had booked a flight for that afternoon (just three days after his first meeting with them) but had cancelled it as he hadn't called them back in time. He asked if they could rebook him a week later, or ideally a week and a half. They booked his flight for the following Friday, they couldn't delay it any longer.

So.....he first went in to IOM on the Tuesday, the following Friday (a week and a half later) he flew out. Although he could have flown out in as little as just three days.

hmm
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Post by hmm » Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:03 pm

I am exactly in the same position as Marie B was before. we are now waiting to hear from the embassy nervously and thinking about the 'what if' questions.
my partner returned voluntarily through IOM, then we got married over there. then apply for settlement visa with all the documents 8 weeks ago. embassy gave a 'deferral notice' after the interview and said they'd call. It's been 5 weeks but haven't heard from them so I called the embassy few times all they say is 'they are waiting to hear from home office and it's entirely depends on how long the HO takes to reply their quey'. we don't know what to do and how long to wait. I even contacted the HO but they said it's between HO and embassy. I contact UKvisa and FCO but they all said they don't deal with individual applications.

did they give a 'deferral notice' to your husband as well? sounds like your husband's case was handled quickly. what exactly embassy ask from HO? the whole assylum file?

Marie B
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Location: London

Post by Marie B » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:55 am

Hi hmm,

My husband's visa application was processed really quickly. When we submitted his application they studied all the paperwork while we waited outside, then they said his case and all my supporting documentation was fine and all we needed to wait for was approval from the Home Office, took just a matter of days to let us know HO said yes. My husband didn't have an interview or 'deferral notice'.

The British Embassy told us that once the Home Office approved his return, his visa would be issued. They said they just had to check his case was closed, with nothing outstanding. When you apply to return through IOM they check the same before they let you leave the UK, your case is closed when you leave. So if you have anything outstanding on your case they will let you know at that stage. At least this is my understanding.

If any other queries had come up about your settlement visa application they would have asked for more information at the interview. If they have contacted HO it is because all is fine with application and they just have to get approval. British Embassy do not hold records from your partners asylum case so have to ok everything with HO. As I said before, if your partner returned through IOM his/her case would have be closed with nothing outstanding so there should be no problem. HO just have to be notified to give final approval.

When we applied (at British Embassy, Albania) it was taking a maximum of three weeks to hear back from HO (early May). Different BE's take different amounts of time depending on how busy, how many staff, how many applications. Probably delays at the moment due to people taking annual leave for summer vacations and increased visa applications in the summer months. Try not to worry too much (almost impossible I know), if they have contacted HO visa should be processed soon. BE will phone your partner to collect his/her visa once HO get back to them.

Kayalami
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Post by Kayalami » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:45 am

hmm,

Marie B's spouse took relevant paperwork pertaining to his asylum claim for his settlement visa application by benefit of advise on this forum which you did not have. Your spouse did not do such. The HO have to retrieve his files based on the info on his settlement visa application. This could be complicated for various reasons e.g.

1. He may have used multiple identities in various asylum applications with different nationalities.

2. There may be additional security checks to be carried out based on his asylum details - was he an official in the government etc.

3. Mismatch of data on file with his legal representatives.

I recall that refered applications to the HO may take up to 6 months to be reviewed. As per prior posts the summer vacation period will have some impact on this. I would suggest that you visit him if funding allows as much as possible - this will make the procedure more bearable.

Marie B
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Location: London

Post by Marie B » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:45 am

As Kayalami has pointed out above my husband did include one document from his original asylum application. It was the form filled in by Immigration Officials when he first applied for asylum, stamped by the Home Office. It detailed his name (spelt wrong), his claimed Nationality (he lied and claimed he was Kosovan not Albanian) and his reference number. He filled his reference number in on his application form too. So even though his details were different in his application for a spouse visa (slightly different name and different nationality), HO replied very quickly. I imagine having his asylum case reference number helped speed things up as Kayalami has said.

hmm
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Post by hmm » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:10 pm

thanks both of you. we put the assylum application reference number on the settlement application form, only the HO reference number not the Immigration ref number. thought that would be enough now it makes sence, thanks to both of you. is it wise to contct the embassy again and give the paper work or other reference to them. also the name is wrong way roud as well, in the UK we write the name as follows mr/miss firstname surname. over there it 's in the form mr/miss surname first name. rest of the details are same.
what should I do now?

Marie B
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Post by Marie B » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:36 am

If you are really worried I guess you could write a letter with all the additional details and forward that to the Embassy where your partner applied. I think though you just have to be patient and wait for the decision from the HO.

The embassy have said they are waiting for a reply from the HO and the visa application entirely depends on what the HO say. You have already called the HO and they have told you they will only discuss it with the Embassy. I really don't think there is a way to hurry up the HO's decision/investigation, even in regard to your other posts about involving an MP, I think it is probably too early. Give them another month or two and if you still haven't heard then perhaps your MP can enquire for more details of what the delay is.

Kayalami has pointed out possible reasons why the HO are taking a while, and has said it may take up to six months to review the application. I think you will just have to be patient.

rmberg1
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Working visa or fiance visa???

Post by rmberg1 » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:50 am

Hi Marie, hmm, Kayalami and others!
Thank you for your advises. I applied to IOM a week ago and now waiting for the outcome.
Recently, I have got a work permit and my job starts on 1 October. I want to go home (Ukraine) and apply for a working visa. Do you think there is any danger that they will refuse giving me a visa because I was on asylum?
Also, I have a British girlfriend and I want to marry her. Which visa is better to return back to the UK: working visa or fiance visa?
Many thanks,
rmberg.

Marie B
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Post by Marie B » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:19 pm

A fiance visa is valid for six months and does not permit you to work in the UK. You and your girlfriend/fiancee would have to first satisfy the conditions, ie. prove you intend to marry within the six months and that you can support and maintain yourself until you marry. Once married you can apply for a spouse visa, valid for two years, a spouse visa permits you to work in the UK.

If you have a job lined up to start on the 1st October (just one month away) don't think a fiance visa is the best option - it does not give you enough time to complete the process, i.e., fiance visa application and approval/travel to UK/wedding arrangements/marriage/application for spouse visa/spouse visa approval/start work by 1st October!

My husband would almost certainly have been refused a fiance visa on the grounds that he had previously overstayed in this country. A fiance visa has a time limit - just six months. My husband would have been a risk as he had previously not returned home after unsuccessfully applying for asylum. I don't think the fact that you were an asylum-seeker is grounds for refusal on its own, however, overstaying a certain time limit is. As a spouse visa is a visa which leads to settlement previous overstaying is not considered a risk factor.

I'm afraid I don't have any experience of working visas, I will leave that for others to answer. I do think that a fiance visa is not the right option if you wish to start working in this country in the next few months.

rmberg1
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Yep

Post by rmberg1 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:02 pm

Marie!
For me is the most important now to return safely to the UK, not to start work or marry. Occasionally, I have now two possibilities: to apply for a working visa or for fiance/marriage visa.
I plan to get working visa, start to work and after that to marry and apply for a marriage visa from inside the UK. But I worry that the working visa does not have the same weight as the fiance/marriage visa (when applying from abroad). It is sufficient to say that the application form for working visa is the same as for visitor visa. Does it mean that working visa does not lead to settlement??? Kayalami, your opinion?
Btw, I don't agree that your husband would be refused a fiance visa. Although a fiance visa is temporary, it is implicitly assumed that after the marriage an application will be lodged for LTR as a spose. This is in contrast to a marriage visitor visa, on which a person come to the UK, marry and go away. That's why both fiance and marriage visa have the same application form and both lead to settlement. For example, let us consider accomodation and maintenance requirement. When applying for a fiance visa, a person have to prove that these requirements are satisfied before and also AFTER marriage. So it is assumed that the sposes stay in the UK.
In the meantime, I haven't heard from IOM as yet. Almost two weeks has gone.

hmm
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Post by hmm » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:01 am

In my opinion fiance visa is best. even better if you can marry before you apply for visa so you can apply for a spouse visa.
if you apply for a working visa, entry clearence officer could argue that since you over stayed once, you might not go back after the 2years when your working visa expires, etc, etc.
in general, application processing time for working visa is longer than fiance or spouce visa.

Marie B
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Post by Marie B » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:44 pm

Hi Rmberg1,

From your previous posts I thought you were concerned about being able to start work on the 1st October. If that's not the case then perhaps a fiance visa is right for you, however, I would be concerned about applying for one if you have overstayed. My husband overstayed for four years! We were advised he could be refused a fiance visa on the grounds that if the wedding didn't go ahead in the six months it was possible he would disappear again and overstay.

For you the most important thing is to return to the UK safely and legally. I'm really not sure which is the best option. I'm sure working visa's can eventually lead to settlement, but whether they carry the same weight?? I think after two years on a work visa you can apply for an extension and then once you have been in this country for four years you can apply for ILR and then after a year on ILR/five years of being in this country you can apply for citizenship.

Getting married you get a two year spouse visa, then you can apply for ILR, then once you have ILR and have been in this country three years you can apply for British Citizenship.

As hmm said
if you apply for a working visa, entry clearence officer could argue that since you over stayed once, you might not go back after the 2years when your working visa expires, etc, etc.
I think the same applies to a fiance visa - if the wedding doesn't go ahead, for whatever reason, what's to say you will return home? Think you should get some professional legal advice in order to decide which is the best way for you to go, Good Luck.

rmberg1
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Post by rmberg1 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:54 pm

Marie and hmm,
Thanks for your comments. In fact, I believe I've not overstayed. I applied for asylum in 2001. Although I have lost all appeals etc, I haven't got any removal directions as yet. I go to the reporting centre each month, so I think I am still legally in the country as an asylum seeker. The Home Office confirmed the same by phone.
I've contacted lawyers in London and explained them the situation. Well, they want £500 to present my case in the UK Embassy in Kiev to obtain a working visa. This is already a good sign. If they want to deal with me, it means that they estimate my chances more than 50%. The working contract itself is for 3 years and, since it is more than for 1 year, I don't have to prove my returnability. This is what is written in the immigration rules.
I think I will apply for working visa first and, if unsuccessful, will invite my fiance to the Ukraine, marry her and apply for a marriage visa.
Now, the only problem is to get my passport back and go home.

Marie B
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Location: London

Post by Marie B » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:23 pm

Hi rmberg1,

As you haven't overstayed both working visa and fiance visa are options. I agree with you, if your contract is for three years definitely go for the working visa. It doesn't sound like you should have a problem. Also agree that if you are not successful with the working visa it would be a good idea to marry in the Ukraine and apply for a spouse visa from there. Would be easier for your fiance and her family to travel there than for your family to travel here, also cost of a wedding is probably significantly cheaper. Even small weddings in this country run into thousands.

Good Luck!

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