My ILR application got rejected...can someone help?

[passport_seeker]

I arrived in 2003. In 2004 I went backpacking for over three months. In 2006 I had work experience abroad which lasted over three months.

That work experience abroad in 2006, was it in any way related to your job in the UK, or even better, were you sent or asked to go by your UK employer?

In 2009, on the 5 year anniversary of your return from your backpacking trip in 2004, what will be your total number of days abroad (counting 5 years back from that date)?

Well I have just graduated from university and am looking for work at the moment. The work experience directly relates to the work I am intending to find within the property sector. It is just unfortunate that I am not currently employed. And again I was not employed through the UK but an overseas office. However the company operates globally, don't know if that makes a difference? I suspect not.

I will have been outside of the country for 176 days. However this means that anytime I leave the country from now until Aug 2009 would need to be added to this figure.

[paulp]

I will have been outside of the country for 176 days. However this means that anytime I leave the country from now until Aug 2009 would need to be added to this figure.

My advice, do not leave the country at all. You have to sort out your priorities, what is more important to you: holidays or ILR?

But what is more worrying is that the Ancestry visa is meant for people who want to work in the UK and you need five years employment in the UK to get ILR.

From the UK visas web site:

Can I work in the UK?
You must intend to work or look for a job in the UK before we can consider you for entry in this category.
Back to questions


What happens after five years?
After five years, you will be able to apply for permanent residence in the UK as long as:

* you continue to meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules for United Kingdom Ancestry, and
* you have spent five years in employment in the UK in this way, without any long periods of time spent living outside the UK.

You can get more information about applying for permanent residence from the UK Border Agency. Their contact details are under 'More advice and information' at the end of this guidance. The UK Border Agency will charge a non-refundable fee for an application to remain indefinitely in the UK.

Did your student status and lack of employment in the last 3 years not come up when you applied for ILR?

[passport_seeker]

Well it sort of came up. As I have just graduated and I was at University maybe it was somewhat overlooked. I intend to find employment and gave them a whole pile of correspondence between myself and prospective employers. As property is in the dumps at the moment, it isn't exactly easy getting a job.

Does being a student for three years eliminate any possibility of me getting ILR???

During the rest of my time in the UK I have been working.

[republique]

Well it sort of came up. As I have just graduated and I was at University maybe it was somewhat overlooked. I intend to find employment and gave them a whole pile of correspondence between myself and prospective employers. As property is in the dumps at the moment, it isn't exactly easy getting a job.

Does being a student for three years eliminate any possibility of me getting ILR???

During the rest of my time in the UK I have been working.

Yeah that worked against you. Most people won't apply for ILR when they are not actually working because, they don't define economically active very well. And being a student, well I guess they saw that as you not being very serious about working and contributing to the economy. If you had been working most of the time, the outcome may have very well be in your favour.
With this additional info, no wonder they weren't very generous.

[passport_seeker]

Well it sort of came up. As I have just graduated and I was at University maybe it was somewhat overlooked. I intend to find employment and gave them a whole pile of correspondence between myself and prospective employers. As property is in the dumps at the moment, it isn't exactly easy getting a job.

Does being a student for three years eliminate any possibility of me getting ILR???

During the rest of my time in the UK I have been working.

Yeah that worked against you. Most people won't apply for ILR when they are not actually working because, they don't define economically active very well. And being a student, well I guess they saw that as you not being very serious about working and contributing to the economy. If you had been working most of the time, the outcome may have very well be in your favour.
With this additional info, no wonder they weren't very generous.

Surely this is the reason why I had to provide my bank statements and my fathers who is supporting me in the interim before finding work. And with that it really shouldn't be a problem?

[paulp]

Surely this is the reason why I had to provide my bank statements and my fathers who is supporting me in the interim before finding work. And with that it really shouldn't be a problem?

passport_seeker, please reread the section of the IDIs that I quoted in the second post on page 1 of this thread, and my quotes from the UKvisas government website. You can only get ILR if you have been working for five years continuously in the UK (less any periods where discretion of the caseworker is exercised). HSMP has a proviso for being economically active and I guess Ancestry allows you periods where you are looking for work.

I draw your attention to this phrase in the IDIs "authorised employment or business here has not been broken by any interruptions of more than 3 months or amounting to more than 6 months in all"

You have an interruption in employment or business of 3 years. I do not know how the caseworker could have overlooked that and I'm afraid no letter from anybody can help here. You can't say that you've been looking for work while you were at uni.

The only thing I can think of is to keep schtum about the uni thing.

[passport_seeker]

Periods abroad of more than 3 months are always going to be a problem. Moreover, it stands to reason that you are meant to spend 5 continuous years in the UK and your stays abroad break that continuity.

Here is the relevant section of the Immigration Directorate Instructions for caseworkers:

3. CALCULATION OF THE FOUR YEAR PERIOD FOR SETTLEMENT
In assessing whether or not an applicant has fulfilled the requirement to have spent 5 years in continuous residence in the same capacity, short absences abroad, for example for holidays (consistent with annual paid leave) or business trips (consistent with maintaining employment or self-employment in the United Kingdom), may be disregarded, provided he has clearly continued to be based here.
3.1. Discretion in cases where continuous residence has been broken
In addition, time spent here in this capacity may exceptionally be aggregated, and continuity not insisted upon, in cases where:
•
there have been no absences abroad (apart from those described in paragraph 3 above) and authorised employment or business here has not been broken by any interruptions of more than 3 months or amounting to more than 6 months in all; or
•
there have been longer absences abroad, provided the absences were for compelling grounds either of a compassionate nature or for reasons related to the applicant's employment or business in the United Kingdom. None of the absences abroad should be of more than 3 months, and they must not amount to more than 6 months in all.
NB: Decisions in such cases must be taken at HEO level or above.
In cases involving breaks in residence and/or employment or self-employment other than or in excess of those detailed above, periods may be aggregated or shortfalls disregarded only with the approval of an SEO or Grade 7

It says 5 years in continuous residence

[republique]

It says 5 years in continuous residence

Oh boy, you just don't understand.
That is one of the conditions. The other condition is to work, not study.
Employment is clearly mentionned in the conditions. There isn't
anything about coming in with the intention to study.
Now that we have the whole story, it is very clear.
No we can not help except to say, get a job (full time study is out)
and do not exceed absences of 225 if you want ILR in the future.
Under the circumstances, you are very lucky they extended your visa.

[sakura]

It says 5 years in continuous residence

I haven't been able to find a clear explanation, but it does say on the UKBA website:

You will be allowed to stay for five years. After five years, you will be able to apply to live here permanently provided you still meet the requirements for United Kingdom ancestry and you have worked continuously in the United Kingdom for five years.

The policy also states:

Requirements for leave to enter on the grounds of United Kingdom ancestry
186. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom on the grounds of his United Kingdom ancestry are that he:

(i) is a Commonwealth citizen; and

(ii) is aged 17 or over; and

(iii) is able to provide proof that one of his grandparents was born in the United Kingdom and Islands and that any such grandparent is the applicant's blood grandparent or grandparent by reason of an adoption recognised by the laws of the United Kingdom relating to adoption; and

(iv) is able to work and intends to take or seek employment in the United Kingdom; and

(v) will be able to maintain and accommodate himself and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and

(vi) holds a valid United Kingdom entry clearance for entry in this capacity.

However, even the section I have bolded is ambiguous - "seeking" employment...what does that mean? I would think, however, that you cannot really be seeking employment if you are at university for three years, unless they include working part-time (therefore fulfilling parts iv and v)?

[alina76]

Hi paulp and others,

In my case, I am on HSMP visa and end of this year I'll go for my ILR. In my first year under HSMP I was not working at all and I had my extension for one year only instead of standard 3 years( due to the fact that I couldn't secure a job). I had provided all the evidence that I was looking for job.
After my first extension I am continously in employment for almost last 4 years now. I was wondering that is it possible that this would effect my ILR. I have spoken to some immigration advisors and according to them under HSMP you can be unemployed , but most of the time you have to be employed which I am.
Is this section of the IDI which you have quoted is for only ancestry visas or for HSMP aswell.

[republique]

Hi paulp and others,

In my case, I am on HSMP visa and end of this year I'll go for my ILR. In my first year under HSMP I was not working at all and I had my extension for one year only instead of standard 3 years( due to the fact that I couldn't secure a job). I had provided all the evidence that I was looking for job.
After my first extension I am continously in employment for almost last 4 years now. I was wondering that is it possible that this would effect my ILR. I have spoken to some immigration advisors and according to them under HSMP you can be unemployed , but most of the time you have to be employed which I am.
Is this section of the IDI which you have quoted is for only ancestry visas or for HSMP aswell.

Your solicitor is correct, the only thing to be careful of is to be employed when you apply for ILR.

[passport_seeker]

It says 5 years in continuous residence

Oh boy, you just don't understand.
That is one of the conditions. The other condition is to work, not study.
Employment is clearly mentionned in the conditions. There isn't
anything about coming in with the intention to study.
Now that we have the whole story, it is very clear.
No we can not help except to say, get a job (full time study is out)
and do not exceed absences of 225 if you want ILR in the future.
Under the circumstances, you are very lucky they extended your visa.

Well I am afraid I disagree with you here, yes an ancestry visa is initially meant for employment. However I have a couple of good friends of mine who have done the exact same thing as me and gone to uni. They got ILR no probs. Whether this means that the case workers are incompetent or the rules change every ten minutes, then I don't think this factor plays a major role in my rejection.

But then again I am a layman in terms of immigration law

[sakura]

Just out of curiousity, did you (and your other friends) pay international fees whilst at uni?

[passport_seeker]

Just out of curiousity, did you (and your other friends) pay international fees whilst at uni?

Yes we did.

Do you think that makes a difference? It was never possible for us to not pay intnl fees.

[sakura]

Just out of curiousity, did you (and your other friends) pay international fees whilst at uni?

Yes we did.

Do you think that makes a difference? It was never possible for us to not pay intnl fees.

It does not make a difference from an ILR point of view, but since it is quite expensive, I was thinking you would have waited until obtaining ILR (which is quite common) so as to save on the expenses.

As my previous post mentions, the concept of 'seeking employment' does not really indicate whether or not one needs to be in employment...much like the way Tier 1/HSMP applicants are treated (as alina76 and republique's posts indicate, you do not need to be economically active for the whole five year period)...so, actually I do not think that studying goes against you.

[alina76]

that was exactly my understanding of the HSMP rules that you dont need to be employed for 5 years, and if you see the form SET(O) in tier 1 section they are specifically asking for employment since one has been granted tier1 (general)visa. I wonder how is that possible for someone who is not in the Uk and will look for job once he is in the UK.

they are not asking this in HSMP section of SET(O) form. atleast thats the relief.

[paulp]

Well I am afraid I disagree with you here, yes an ancestry visa is initially meant for employment. However I have a couple of good friends of mine who have done the exact same thing as me and gone to uni. They got ILR no probs. Whether this means that the case workers are incompetent or the rules change every ten minutes, then I don't think this factor plays a major role in my rejection.

But then again I am a layman in terms of immigration law

If your friends have gotten through, then the only thing you have to watch out for is your absences from the country. If I were you, I would sit tight in the UK and keep that number of absences as low as possible.

After you get ILR, you can go anywhere you want.

[republique]

Well I am afraid I disagree with you here, yes an ancestry visa is initially meant for employment. However I have a couple of good friends of mine who have done the exact same thing as me and gone to uni. They got ILR no probs. Whether this means that the case workers are incompetent or the rules change every ten minutes, then I don't think this factor plays a major role in my rejection.

But then again I am a layman in terms of immigration law

Then they were probably working when they submitted their application and didn't give the impression that they came here to study. Your application is like a slap in the face to the HO. Yeah I know you admitted me to the UK so I can work but I prefer to study. What cha going to do about it? And their response, ILR denied. Try to present a better story next time around, buster was their answer.

[passport_seeker]

Well I am afraid I disagree with you here, yes an ancestry visa is initially meant for employment. However I have a couple of good friends of mine who have done the exact same thing as me and gone to uni. They got ILR no probs. Whether this means that the case workers are incompetent or the rules change every ten minutes, then I don't think this factor plays a major role in my rejection.

But then again I am a layman in terms of immigration law

Then they were probably working when they submitted their application and didn't give the impression that they came here to study. Your application is like a slap in the face to the HO. Yeah I know you admitted me to the UK so I can work but I prefer to study. What cha going to do about it? And their response, ILR denied. Try to present a better story next time around, buster was their answer.

Nope afraid they weren't working either, not at all.

And I actually didn't come here with the intention of studying. I was working for the first two years and decided I wanted to get a degree. Surely they can't penalise me for wanting a higher salary so I can pay more taxes.

[republique]

Well I am afraid I disagree with you here, yes an ancestry visa is initially meant for employment. However I have a couple of good friends of mine who have done the exact same thing as me and gone to uni. They got ILR no probs. Whether this means that the case workers are incompetent or the rules change every ten minutes, then I don't think this factor plays a major role in my rejection.

But then again I am a layman in terms of immigration law

Then they were probably working when they submitted their application and didn't give the impression that they came here to study. Your application is like a slap in the face to the HO. Yeah I know you admitted me to the UK so I can work but I prefer to study. What cha going to do about it? And their response, ILR denied. Try to present a better story next time around, buster was their answer.

Nope afraid they weren't working either, not at all.

And I actually didn't come here with the intention of studying. I was working for the first two years and decided I wanted to get a degree. Surely they can't penalise me for wanting a higher salary so I can pay more taxes.

What you are missing is that they probably presented a better application than yours. They may or may have not been studying and they may have been studying and working at the time of the application. Certainly they probably had other things in their favour like fewer absences and then slid by. I don't believe they had the same exact facts as you. Many people on this board claim stuff that other people had the same exact facts and then when they go back and get all the details they realize it wasn't the same at all.

[paulp]

Nope afraid they weren't working either, not at all.

And I actually didn't come here with the intention of studying. I was working for the first two years and decided I wanted to get a degree. Surely they can't penalise me for wanting a higher salary so I can pay more taxes.

passport_seeker, instead of trying to use common sense to second-guess how the case workers are going to judge your application, you may find reading the rules and regulations on ukvisas.gov.uk and the Immigration Directorate Instructions (rule book for caseworkers) enlightening.

short answer: Common sense does not work (well, rarely) at the home office.

[passport_seeker]

Well I am afraid I disagree with you here, yes an ancestry visa is initially meant for employment. However I have a couple of good friends of mine who have done the exact same thing as me and gone to uni. They got ILR no probs. Whether this means that the case workers are incompetent or the rules change every ten minutes, then I don't think this factor plays a major role in my rejection.

But then again I am a layman in terms of immigration law

Then they were probably working when they submitted their application and didn't give the impression that they came here to study. Your application is like a slap in the face to the HO. Yeah I know you admitted me to the UK so I can work but I prefer to study. What cha going to do about it? And their response, ILR denied. Try to present a better story next time around, buster was their answer.

Nope afraid they weren't working either, not at all.

And I actually didn't come here with the intention of studying. I was working for the first two years and decided I wanted to get a degree. Surely they can't penalise me for wanting a higher salary so I can pay more taxes.

What you are missing is that they probably presented a better application than yours. They may or may have not been studying and they may have been studying and working at the time of the application. Certainly they probably had other things in their favour like fewer absences and then slid by. I don't believe they had the same exact facts as you. Many people on this board claim stuff that other people had the same exact facts and then when they go back and get all the details they realize it wasn't the same at all.

Yes I agree they did have fewer absences, and I am not trying to compare all the details of the applications. The point I was trying to make is that I don't necessarily think that me going to uni played a huge part in my rejection. In fact I think it was obviously down to my absences. Whether my opinion is correct or not is of course a matter for debate. But without knowing how qualified the opinion is it will always just be conjecture. By this I mean that the law is open to interpretation and how well it can be argued.

[passport_seeker]

Nope afraid they weren't working either, not at all.

And I actually didn't come here with the intention of studying. I was working for the first two years and decided I wanted to get a degree. Surely they can't penalise me for wanting a higher salary so I can pay more taxes.

passport_seeker, instead of trying to use common sense to second-guess how the case workers are going to judge your application, you may find reading the rules and regulations on ukvisas.gov.uk and the Immigration Directorate Instructions (rule book for caseworkers) enlightening.

short answer: Common sense does not work (well, rarely) at the home office.

Do you think that they regularly update the website? I know someone mentioned it earlier in the thread about the contradiction of the 4 year qualifying period as oppose to the 5 year period.

[paulp]

Do you think that they regularly update the website? I know someone mentioned it earlier in the thread about the contradiction of the 4 year qualifying period as oppose to the 5 year period.

Parts of the online IDIs are out of date, like the 4 to 5 year change but they give you a pretty good idea what the rules of the game are.

[PaulM]

There is great ambiguity over the rules as one set talks about working continuously for the 5 years and the other talks about seeking employment and being able to support oneself.

Anyway what I plan to do is continue with my studies next year and get a part time job just to cover myself.