Foreign Birth register (FBR): confused with regards to the process

[saddleback]

I am a naturalised Irish citizen, married to a Russian citizen and currently residing in Moscow.

I have a 2 year old, who was successfully issued with FBR certificate in Russia. We are waiting for our second baby and will be going down FBR route again. However, the rules have changed significantly since 2018. I contacted the embassy and cannot knit together the process of the application.

While online application states to submit documents either to Dublin or to the 'local embassy specified on the form', the response received from the embassy is confusing. I was issued with the following instructions:

"The Embassy has no role anymore in the processing of FBR's. It is now a centralised system whereby anyone applying for FBR must submit original documentation to Dublin. This new regulation has been introduced world wide for applications for Irish Citizenship"

I honestly cannot understand how I can send a heap of original documents, including my passport, naturalisation certificate and others, to INIS for unforeseeable time. Previously, embassy provided an appointment to take and certify copies of the submitted originals and to forward them alongside the application to INIS in Dublin. In the interim, originals remained with us.

It is a skeleton staff operations in Moscow, so I understand they are a bit overstretched. Has anyone experienced similar issues with applying for FBR since the process changed? I will be thankful for any advise

Thank you

[BrexitEscapee]

Has anyone experienced similar issues with applying for FBR since the process changed? I will be thankful for any advise

Although I applied for my FBR 2 years ago, I still sent my documents direct to Ireland as this was easier than travelling from my home to the nearest Irish embassy. It is not a problem though: your most important document is your passport, and you can send a notarised copy instead of the passport itself. All the other certificates need to be originals, but that was not a problem for me as you can get as many original birth/death/marriage certificates as you want from the UK/Irish authorities, by paying something like £6 per certificate.

[saddleback]

Although I applied for my FBR 2 years ago, I still sent my documents direct to Ireland as this was easier than travelling from my home to the nearest Irish embassy. It is not a problem though: your most important document is your passport, and you can send a notarised copy instead of the passport itself. All the other certificates need to be originals, but that was not a problem for me as you can get as many original birth/death/marriage certificates as you want from the UK/Irish authorities, by paying something like £6 per certificate.

Hi, thank you! My concern is that the originals required (e.g. my marriage certificate, naturalisation certificate, baby's original birth certificate) will be held by INIS for up to 1 year. I really doubt whether changes were implemented with applicants' in mind. I guess, my question is whether INIS will accept embassy-endorsed copies of original documents in lieu of originals?

[BrexitEscapee]

Hi, thank you! My concern is that the originals required (e.g. my marriage certificate, naturalisation certificate, baby's original birth certificate) will be held by INIS for up to 1 year. I really doubt whether changes were implemented with applicants' in mind. I guess, my question is whether INIS will accept embassy-endorsed copies of original documents in lieu of originals?

The important thing for you to understand here is that the DFA website specifies that certificates must be 'original.' 'Original' does not mean some special piece of paper which is only issued once. It just means you have obtained it directly from the State, rather than photocopied it yourself. Here in the UK, all 'original' birth certificates etc. are, in fact, just official documents containing the details from the UK's register of birth/deaths/marriages. There is only one births/deaths/marriage register and no UK citizen ever gets to take possession of any part of it. Instead, they get the state to print them off a 'certificate' which is an officially-endorsed document, printed on special paper etc., containing the details from the register. These are deemed 'original' because you got them direct from the state and you can have as many of each as you like. If I wanted to, I could pay 100 times and get 100 official death certificates for my grandfather, and each of these would be acceptable for FBR, because I got them direct from the State.

Which country are your certificates from? I am sure that that Government will have a website which explains how they issue birth/marriage/death certificates etc. I think it is highly likely they will operate the same system as the UK, i.e. you can just pay the state to provide you with extra certificates, and these will be acceptable for FBR. What is not acceptable would be you making your own photocopy of these certificates, as it will not be on watermarked paper with embossing, gold leaf, holograms or whatever other anti-counterfeiting measures that country employs. Have a look at the following website, which is where the UK Govt issue these 'original' certificates, and shows how cheap and easy it is to get as many of each as you want:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/cert ... /login.asp

So, if you're prepared to spend a small amount of money for extra certificates, there is no need for you to be without your birth/marriage/death certificates whilst you are waiting for your FBR to be processed. And as I mentioned in my last post, the same applies for your passport - you can just send a 'notarised' photocopy of the photo page. I don't know about your naturalisation certificate, but your next step would be to search that State's website to find out if/how you can get extra 'original' copies of that.

[saddleback]

So, if you're prepared to spend a small amount of money for extra certificates, there is no need for you to be without your birth/marriage/death certificates whilst you are waiting for your FBR to be processed. And as I mentioned in my last post, the same applies for your passport - you can just send a 'notarised' photocopy of the photo page. I don't know about your naturalisation certificate, but your next step would be to search that State's website to find out if/how you can get extra 'original' copies of that.

Hi, thank you! The documents issued in Russia are always in a single original copy. The only way to obtain a copy would be to declare it lost, thus getting two identical documents at the same time (even though technically, the second one will be always marked with REPLACEMENT stamp), which is a bit shady to start with. Therefore, I have little leverage really other than to part with documents for up to 1 year.

Regarding naturalisation certificate, it becomes even more tricky, as if lost, it will not be replaced but a simple letter confirming your naturalisation would be issued instead.

The stakes are truly high for submitting so many original documents.

[BrexitEscapee]

Hi, thank you! The documents issued in Russia are always in a single original copy. The only way to obtain a copy would be to declare it lost, thus getting two identical documents at the same time (even though technically, the second one will be always marked with REPLACEMENT stamp), which is a bit shady to start with. Therefore, I have little leverage really other than to part with documents for up to 1 year.

Regarding naturalisation certificate, it becomes even more tricky, as if lost, it will not be replaced but a simple letter confirming your naturalisation would be issued instead.

The stakes are truly high for submitting so many original documents.

Okay - I understand now. In that case, it seems that you are correct about the FBR process meaning you will be without your documents for a long time. I can only think of two options (1) explain the situation to the relevant Russian authorities and request a 'REPLACEMENT' copy of your documents or (2) contact the Irish DFA and ask whether, because of the circumstances, they would accept notarised copies instead of originals - as they do for passports.

I'm not confident either option will be successful, but i can't think of any alternatives. And to make matters worse - the DFA website states that FBR applications are not being processed at the moment due to Covid19, so you probably won't be able to get in contact with them for many weeks or months.