Some Citizenship related questions

[arjay]

I have checked through many threads on this board, in relation to obtaining citizenship (naturalisation), but have been unable to find answers to the following questions. Could I please seek the advice of esteemed members in relation to them:

I am a British citizen by birth. My (non British and non EEA) wife and her daughter (my step-daughter) are currently awaiting (already applied for) ILR after 5 years in the UK on a spouse visa and dependent child visa respectively. The dependent daughter is now over 18 though was admitted as a dependent child when under 18 (and she remains dependent). My wife has been in the UK for 5 years and the dependent daughter for 4 years.

Assuming ILR is granted, I note that my wife, being the spouse of a BC, can apply for citizenship/registration immediately. However:

1. Can both my wife and her daughter apply jointly and immediately, on a Family Application, or does the daughter, now over 18 and thus an adult, have to wait the 1 year, before she can apply (separately)?

2. If the latter, would there be any merit in waiting the 1 year and then applying for citizenship/naturalisation for them both jointly on the same family application?

[CR001]

1. No they can't. As the daughter is over 18, she needs 5 years residence and 12 months on ilr before she can apply for citizenship in her own right.

2. No, each person over 18 has to qualify for citizenship on their own.

[secret.simon]

Keep in mind that immigration rules and nationality laws are different and that naturalisation is not a part of the immigration pathway. While immigration rules generally look at the age of the person when they entered the country or when they started on a certain route, nationality law looks at the age of the person on the date of the application. If the applicant is past their 18th birthday on the date of application, the person must apply for naturalisation on their own strength. There is also no concept of dependency for naturalisation applications, with each application being decided on its own strengths.

Your daughter will have to meet all the requirements of naturalisation as a British citizen (absence, physical presence, good character, English language, LITUK, etc) as your wife, except that she will need to wait for one year after ILR (and meet the five year residence and physical presence requirements) if she is not married to a British citizen.

[arjay]

1. No they can't. As the daughter is over 18, she needs 5 years residence and 12 months on ilr before she can apply for citizenship in her own right.

2. No, each person over 18 has to qualify for citizenship on their own.

....... If the applicant is past their 18th birthday on the date of application, the person must apply for naturalisation on their own strength. There is also no concept of dependency for naturalisation applications, with each application being decided on its own strengths.

Your daughter will have to meet all the requirements of naturalisation as a British citizen (absence, physical presence, good character, English language, LITUK, etc) as your wife, except that she will need to wait for one year after ILR (and meet the five year residence and physical presence requirements) if she is not married to a British citizen.

CR001 and secret.simon, thank you both very much. That clarifies the situation. I feared that might be the case. Though by the time the daughter has waited the further 1 year, she will have met the 5 year residence requirement, and she has already passed the English B1 and Life in the UK exams for ILR purposes.

On a somewhat different tack, I would welcome your advice on this:-

They (wife and step-daughter) come from a country which doesn't officially allow dual nationality, though I understand some people from their home country do hold British passports as well as their home country's passports.

As I understand it, if they stick with having ILR, (and don't proceed to citizenship) they can travel to other countries including their home country, with their home country's passport, and their UK BRP provides the proof that they can enter the UK upon their return, as they do currently. So no issues there, ..... apart from the fact that they would need visas to visit many countries (including all European countries), other than their home country.

However, on the other hand, if they proceed to British citizenship, they will be expected to obtain a British passport and use that for all international travel and they would have to give up their BRP's and return them to the HO. If they do that, they are then in a difficult position re visiting their home country, in as much as if they visit their home country using their British passports, they would be required to obtain and pay for a visit visa which would only give them a very limited time as a visitor.

If however, they proceeded to British citizenship and a British passport, but used their home country's passport, they could visit their home country without needing a visa or paying visa fees and stay as long as they wanted. In that scenario I presume an issue would arise in how to prove their entitlement to travel back to the UK when checking in for their return flight. If they flew directly from their home country and they showed their British passport then that could cause an issue with their home immigration authorities.

Alternatively, if they travelled via a third country, (using their home country's passport) I wonder if when checking in for the final flight back to the UK, it would be viable/allowable to then, additionally show their British passport as proof of their entitlement to travel to & enter the UK, (as well as their home country's passport that they are actually travelling on)?

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

[arjay]

Any input on the above post/questions would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[secret.simon]

They (wife and step-daughter) come from a country which doesn't officially allow dual nationality

If the country does not officially allow dual nationality, does it automatically revoke its own nationality from a dual national (such as India and Japan do) or does it merely ignore it (like China does)?

If the former, it may be a criminal offence in that country to hold a passport of that country in addition to a British passport and on these forums, we would not advise breaking the laws of any country. If the latter, it may not matter.

Some countries, such as India, do provide for lifelong visas (in India's case, called OCI) for former citizens. Perhaps it may be worth looking into whether your wife's country of origin makes provision for such lifelong visas. That may alleviate the requirement to carry two passports, especially if it is illegal.

[arjay]

They (wife and step-daughter) come from a country which doesn't officially allow dual nationality

If the country does not officially allow dual nationality, does it automatically revoke its own nationality from a dual national (such as India and Japan do) or does it merely ignore it (like China does)?

If the former, it may be a criminal offence in that country to hold a passport of that country in addition to a British passport and on these forums, we would not advise breaking the laws of any country. If the latter, it may not matter.

Some countries, such as India, do provide for lifelong visas (in India's case, called OCI) for former citizens. Perhaps it may be worth looking into whether your wife's country of origin makes provision for such lifelong visas. That may alleviate the requirement to carry two passports, especially if it is illegal.

Thank you for your comments secret.simon, I understand it to be as China do.

Agreed they don't intend to break any laws, hence our attempts to determine what is acceptable and what isn't at this stage.

Our concerns were more about the acceptability of travelling on one passport (their home passport), but using the other (British passport) to prove their right to travel to and enter the UK, when checking in for flights back to the UK. Had they been able to keep their BRP's that would have avoided the situation.

[arjay]

Hello again, can you or anyone offer any further advice on this (my previous post above), or do you know of a previous thread that covers the subject in more detail? Thanks.