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Lnlan10 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 5:39 pmI have this issue. Applied for and received settled status Jan 2019, then citizenship Feb 2020. Still waiting for a reply thanks to this mess of corona. Do I risk having my application refused because of this? Can they backtrack the requirement to applications submitted before the change?
Fwiw I do have a European Health Insurance Card which was valid 2013-2019, but it doesn’t have a date of issue. (In my home country they’re issued and shipped automatically once your old one expires...)
What makes you think that?But nevertheless I think the Home Office is trying to reject applications with the European card as CSI, but It would be good to know if someone tried this and had a successful output.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/compreh ... -needs-it/
I submitted in February, and would be affected if this is actually an issue (haven't heard back). I guess I will find out soon. If anyone does get rejected on this ground it would be good if you can report to the group. I'll surely report here what will happenzcranso wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:09 pmI made a small experiment to check whether there has been any change. I submitted my own application in March so I can notice any differences. I inserted some random details which are still valid until I got to the document checklist part of the application. There I was told that I would need to provide:
* 'Evidence that you have been in the UK lawfully for your 3 or 5 year qualifying residence period. This should be evidence that you were here as a worker, student, self-employed, self-sufficient, retired or incapacitated person.'
* 'If you spent some of that time in the UK as a student or as a self-sufficient person, and had comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI), a copy of your sickness insurance policy'
I can confirm that none of these requirements appeared in my actual application in March. It would therefore appear that this is a new requirement as reflected in the guidance posted by uklondonn.
For what it's worth I don't think that this makes citizenship using EU Settlement impossible. The guidance seems to say that CSI would strengthen the application but is not essential and caseworkers should exercise discretion.
I also want to believe that this does not affect applications already submitted. The fact that we never agreed in our applications that we could provide these documents should hopefully prevent them from asking for them.
I hope this helps everyone.
Thanks for checking that. People that have already applied would be probably lucky then...zcranso wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:09 pmI made a small experiment to check whether there has been any change. I submitted my own application in March so I can notice any differences. I inserted some random details which are still valid until I got to the document checklist part of the application. There I was told that I would need to provide:
* 'Evidence that you have been in the UK lawfully for your 3 or 5 year qualifying residence period. This should be evidence that you were here as a worker, student, self-employed, self-sufficient, retired or incapacitated person.'
* 'If you spent some of that time in the UK as a student or as a self-sufficient person, and had comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI), a copy of your sickness insurance policy'
I can confirm that none of these requirements appeared in my actual application in March. It would therefore appear that this is a new requirement as reflected in the guidance posted by uklondonn.
For what it's worth I don't think that this makes citizenship using EU Settlement impossible. The guidance seems to say that CSI would strengthen the application but is not essential and caseworkers should exercise discretion.
I also want to believe that this does not affect applications already submitted. The fact that we never agreed in our applications that we could provide these documents should hopefully prevent them from asking for them.
I hope this helps everyone.
I understand it as the 5 years preceding the period of obtaining settled status, but I might be wrong. I am finding the wording quite confusing. As I have already applied months ago there isn't much I can do at this point but wait. If I get an email from the caseworker asking for CSI, I will email them back to ask for them to apply discretion as per their guidance. Have you already submitted your application?Frou01 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:28 amJust double checking this is a general discussion as more members replied to this one and to the same topic below? If not apologise and please delete my post.
In fact that’s a topic suddenly very important to quite a few applicants and not an invidual issue I assume?
I will post my individual question regarding my individual case straight into my thread.
Myself and many others reacted very upset by the news yesterday and I can tell a lot of people with pending applications are very worried.
The article from free movement leaves more questions than answers.
Can anyone explain to me how they understand it?
Does that mean we would have needed CSI before the 5 year qualifying period or/ and during the time before the date receiving Settled Status?
Regarding pending applications. I understand the wording in the AN has recently changed and some who applied a year, months ago might never had it and when I started my application in January I haven’t noticed.
But from what I can say I’ve seen a month ago someone posting an email by HO asking for more evidence and CSI was one of them. That application is a year old and it seems the new requirement is passed on to older pending applications. But it would be useful to get more info of people who are asked for proof of CSI when the application is from last year.
Thank you
I do not think so. They definitely do not cancel settled status. If you cannot provide CSI, the caseworker is advised to decide if they think they should apply discretion in this case. So the options on BC are either apply discretion and approve or not apply discretion and reject. Either way, it will be a gamble.Cost Manager wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:59 amSo what happened if you can't provide CSI? they cancel your settled status or they close the way to BC?
Cost Manager wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:54 amIt is confusing. Once you get a settled status, you are no more tied to your sponsor.
In that case, do they look at your 5 year history or your sponsor's 5 year history?
They would look at whether you, the applicant, met all the requirements of being legally resident in the UK for the five (possibly, ten) years before the date of the application. That may require looking at whether the EEA citizen spouse had CSI during their residence in the UK as well.Cost Manager wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:59 amSo what happened if you can't provide CSI? they cancel your settled status or they close the way to BC?
Yes, I did submit my application before that announcement.madalina91 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:25 amI understand it as the 5 years preceding the period of obtaining settled status, but I might be wrong. I am finding the wording quite confusing. As I have already applied months ago there isn't much I can do at this point but wait. If I get an email from the caseworker asking for CSI, I will email them back to ask for them to apply discretion as per their guidance. Have you already submitted your application?Frou01 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 10:28 amJust double checking this is a general discussion as more members replied to this one and to the same topic below? If not apologise and please delete my post.
In fact that’s a topic suddenly very important to quite a few applicants and not an invidual issue I assume?
I will post my individual question regarding my individual case straight into my thread.
Myself and many others reacted very upset by the news yesterday and I can tell a lot of people with pending applications are very worried.
The article from free movement leaves more questions than answers.
Can anyone explain to me how they understand it?
Does that mean we would have needed CSI before the 5 year qualifying period or/ and during the time before the date receiving Settled Status?
Regarding pending applications. I understand the wording in the AN has recently changed and some who applied a year, months ago might never had it and when I started my application in January I haven’t noticed.
But from what I can say I’ve seen a month ago someone posting an email by HO asking for more evidence and CSI was one of them. That application is a year old and it seems the new requirement is passed on to older pending applications. But it would be useful to get more info of people who are asked for proof of CSI when the application is from last year.
Thank you
Keep in mind that ironically there are rules and requirements about when discretion can and should be exercised.Frou01 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:41 amI declare there I never had CSI and the requirement changed now.
Also I explain my situation of the time before my employment more detailed. Some not quite unimportant personal circumstances and that I was interested in having a private insurance from my country even when this hasn’t been aware to me if it’s been a requirement or not and also explain I wouldn’t have been able to afford it.
I’m asking to exercise discretion
Nationality policy: Naturalisation as a British citizen by discretion policy guidance wrote: (Page 29 onwards)
You must only exercise discretion to disregard a period of unlawful residence if there are reasons for thiswhich were clearly outside the applicant’s control, or if the breach was genuinely inadvertent and short.
...You must not exercise discretion to disregard a period of unlawful residence in any other circumstances, and particularly not when the breach was both substantial and deliberate.
- the breach was because the applicant did not meet an additional/implicit condition of stay, rather than illegal entry or overstaying, such as an EEA or Swiss national not having CSI and can provide sufficient evidence to justify discretion being exercised in their favour.
I'd be cautious about that approach. Unlike applications made under the EEA Regulations, which were governed by EU law, citizenship applications are solely under UK law. And even when it comes to non-EEA applications, there have been cases where people who got ILR (equivalent to PR) under UK immigration law, but who had not met the precise requirements of UK citizenship law, were denied citizenship.madalina91 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:49 amSomething that may be helpful to some people are the guidance notes here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... tes-v5.pdf
There is this caveat that has been successfully used by Romanian and Bulgarian citizens, who spent some of their time in the UK as students, in thei PR applications. The same could be argued when applying for naturalisation. On page 26 of the guidance notes, it says: evidence that you had Comprehensive
Sickness Insurance for yourself and any family members for the period of study (unless previously issued with a registration certificate on the basis of residence in the UK as a student before 20 June 2011).
I, for example, have a registration certificate from what was then UKBA, saying I was in the UK lawfully and exercising my treaty rights. When I applied for that certificate CSI was not something they asked for. The Home Office only started asking for it from 20 June 2011, which is why I think they have this transitional agreement in place.
I am only leaving this here, in case it might help some people in a similar situation.
Yes, I do understand that. I guess my comment was more for anyone who has already applied for naturalisation a while back and are waiting for a response. That response could very well be an email from the caseworker asking for CSI. I am only saying that I will use the fact that I was given a registration certificate without CSI and told I was here lawfully as a reason why I did not have CSI (i.e. I got confused and made a mistake) and ask them to exercise discretion on that basis. I hope this clarifies my reasoning.secret.simon wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:56 amI'd be cautious about that approach. Unlike applications made under the EEA Regulations, which were governed by EU law, citizenship applications are solely under UK law. And even when it comes to non-EEA applications, there have been cases where people who got ILR (equivalent to PR) under UK immigration law, but who had not met the precise requirements of UK citizenship law, were denied citizenship.madalina91 wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 11:49 amSomething that may be helpful to some people are the guidance notes here:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... tes-v5.pdf
There is this caveat that has been successfully used by Romanian and Bulgarian citizens, who spent some of their time in the UK as students, in thei PR applications. The same could be argued when applying for naturalisation. On page 26 of the guidance notes, it says: evidence that you had Comprehensive
Sickness Insurance for yourself and any family members for the period of study (unless previously issued with a registration certificate on the basis of residence in the UK as a student before 20 June 2011).
I, for example, have a registration certificate from what was then UKBA, saying I was in the UK lawfully and exercising my treaty rights. When I applied for that certificate CSI was not something they asked for. The Home Office only started asking for it from 20 June 2011, which is why I think they have this transitional agreement in place.
I am only leaving this here, in case it might help some people in a similar situation.