3 months waiting on in-country HSMP application..!!!!

[sand_03]

Hi

I would request the experts / regular members to guide me in this critical & totally un-usual situation.

I made an in-country family application for HSMP (28+)in Dec'03, through a consultant which is registered with HO. It has been over 3 months now and HO has not made any decision. The chronology of main events are as mentioned below:

10.12.03 - HSMP application filed
11.12.03 - Letter issued by HO-IND asking for more information/ evidence on section-3 (Past Earnings) and giving me time till 23.01.04. This letter ideally should have been issued to my consultant. The error was accepted by HO to my consultant.
* We decided and asked HO to ignore Section 3 (Past earnings) in there assessment, to avoid delay and complication - as I still qualified on other sections of the application.
* HO later started demanding more evidence / reference letter to further support my seniority in previous jobs. They never asked this in their first letter dated 11.12.03, when they queried for Past Earnings !
19.01.04 - New documents to prove my seniority were delivered at HO
03.02.04 - Documents / case allocated to a case worker (as infromed to me by my consultant)

I have been made aware on my numerous queries to my consultant that there is a major backlog in HO and nothing can really be done that just to wait !!!

Pls provide your opinions and advise on the following issues:

1) When I applied the HSMP processing time was 10 days for most cases. Later it has been extended to 6-8 weeks. In my case 14 weeks have lapsed since application filed & 9 weeks since additional doucments, as required by HO, have been provided - but still no decision made.

2) My future plans based on HSMP decision, have all got spoilt due to this delay. I am also in urgent need of my family's passports for various reasons (to travel and meet my best freind who just lost his baby & also to open a bank a/c for my wife who has started work). I want to retreive my passports, but in no way do I want to add another factor to delay the decision.

3) As my application is through my consultant, I am unable to contact HO directly to enquire or persuade them.

4) Can anything be done to request HO to prioritise my application and expedite the decision and how ?

5) Is there no time limit within which the HO has to make a decision or the delay can go on for ever for various reasons?

Pls help

[Chess]

Sand_03,

Sorry to hear all that especially for an In-Country application - The moral of the story is that we should always provide sufficient information so that a decision is made instantly.

I wonder why you used a 'Consultant' as this is again affecting your ability to contact HO directly. Did you 'doubt' your ability to claim points on your own??


All in all, you have 'sound' reasons for requiring your passport and I would suggest that you write a letter explaining the 'compassionate' grounds why you need your ppt and raise the Bank a/c issue as well.

The letter should be sent to your consultant who can then forward it to HO.

Obviously, if you withdraw your passport, that would mean withdrawing your application - what you should kindly request them to do is to expedite your application.


Good Luck

[sand_03]

Thanks for your reply Chess

I did not doubt my ability to apply direcly, but wanted it to be made the best possible through "professionals". I have instead started doubting the ability of the consultant !

I want to persuade HO to expedite the decision, even on compassionate grounds, but I get horrified by the feeling if it would further delay/affect the decision in any way. I might give it a try - just need to firm-up my thoughts.

Kayalami & Others: Pls provide yr views / guidance on the listed/remaining issues.

Thanks

[kishorebhosale]

Which consultant did you hire for your application. I think you have a right to sue the consultant for not providing good service for your application.

In house application usually never gets delayed.

[JayGee]

Firstly, suing anyone may not produce the desired result within the ambit of compassionate reasons, quite contrary this will just add undue pressure on yourself. In any event on what basis can you sue the consultant - they are not the ones making decisions - all they do is to file the application on your behalf - there' no explicit or implied proof that they promised to get the HSMP status approved within a certain period of time.

Secondly, you have the right to make a complaint - click here http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/workin ... tonly.html.

Thirdly, don't be overhastely - I talk of experience.. and usually I am the one looking embarassed.

In conclusion, good luck, please keep us posted about your progress.

[kishorebhosale]

This is not a normal situation.

This is very serious issue, simply because he has his passport blocked with them and he need that for urgent reason. If this would have been an out country application then atleast it would not stop him from travelling for important reason.

He can directly go to the home office and let them know his serious concern.

Why should he suffer by not approaching the HO directly just because he has applied through a consultant.

[edited by Cosmopol at author's request ]

[JayGee]

kishorebhosale

I fully understand what you are saying - I was not advocating a sit back and relax attitude - quite contrary, I provided the link of HO which provides the details of how and where he would be able to lodge a complaint.

[kishorebhosale]

Jaygee it is not that I am not supporting your views. In my view writing or complaining to that link will not be the best reaction.

I am sure no one would be very sure what to do at this point of time. Since this being an unusual situation approaching directly to the HO would be appropriate idea instead of writing a complain and then waiting for another reply.....

[JayGee]

kishorebhosale

I am not sure if you followed the link, however the link provides for

(a) email : ind.cu@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk
(b) writing : IND Complaints and Customer Focus Unit
(c) tel: 0870 241 6523
(d) fax: 020 8760 4310

So, INMHO I would call them on number provided and lodge compliant - if you would agree with me.

[kishorebhosale]

I agree with you sir

I am trying to answer the point highlighted by the sand_03

3) As my application is through my consultant, I am unable to contact HO directly to enquire or persuade them.

If this is the rule the bend it in this situation.

[Joseph]

sand_03

Unfortunately, your application is being given special attention because the evidence initially submitted did not match up. The fact that you have now backed off on the earnings points has made them question the credibility of the seniority points. The role of a good consultant is to ensure that the evidence submitted is credible and does not get questioned. Apparently, your consultant has not done his job. Unfortunately for you, that's your problem, not HSMP's.

That being said, I don't think you should complain to the Home Office. Some well prepared applications get approved very quickly (even now) while others which are being scrutinized get put in limbo for months. You really have to sit with your consultant and review what was submitted and what the latest position of the HSMP people are. In particular, you have to look at the application documents that were submitted as they conform to the detailed and very clear HSMP guidance notes. Yes, you are doing the consultant's job by doing that, but you have to take charge now.

If your existing visa is still valid for a while, you could withdraw the application and get your passports back, although I don't think they will be very sympathetic to the reasons you are giving for travel. Usually they consider serious medical issues and deaths in the family only. Or you can continue to have the consultant intercede on your behalf (but with your active input). I recommend trying the latter for now.

Afterwards, if you want to complain, you should do so regarding your consultant with the OISC or the Law Society as the case may be.

Joseph

[kishorebhosale]

Josepb wrote

In particular, you have to look at the application documents that were submitted as they conform to the detailed and very clear HSMP guidance notes. Yes, you are doing the consultant's job by doing that, but you have to take charge now.


Then what is the consultant paid for????

[Joseph]

kishorebhosale

Good question. At the beginning of this string, Chess made a good point asking why anyone would use a consultant for an initial HSMP application, which is generally very straightforward.

My point is that if you use a bad consultant, it’s much worse than using no consultant at all. As with doctors, just because an immigration consultant is listed and registered, it doesn’t mean he is any good. Even if the consultant makes a mistake, it’s the applicant who signs the application form and it’s the applicant’s future on the line. Just because you pay a consultant doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t take responsibility for the accuracy and effectiveness of the application. Caveat Emptor definitely applies here! Suing the consultant doesn't help when your application is still on the line. It's better to avoid the problem to begin with. That's how this Forum tries to help its members.

So in answer to your question, I think the only good reason to pay a consultant is when the application is complicated or outside the normal rules. In these cases, my preference would be to avoid “consultants” and go for full-fledged immigration solicitors.

Joseph

[sand_03]

Thanks for your replies guys.

I think it will be counter productive to get entangled in a tussle with the consultant, at this critical stage. Infacrt I very strongly feel like doing it but I also feel I need to be diplomatic than emotional. I somehow see the possibility of working foreward with the consultant - but what is the best wasy of doing it is not clear.

Joseph - just to clarify on yr points:

Actually it is not that my evidence did not match up - but it could be week. As I came to UK as a student in 2001, my work experience is all prior to 2001. I did not have all the pay-slips, but had the employers appointment , experience, salary certificate and reference letters. So the document could be considered week as HO expected all payslips/tax returns. This is where the consultant should have possibly ensured that the documents submitted will be sufficient or not!

As per facts my total points are 95, so my consultant decided to exclude earnings section which reduced the score to 75 and I was still qualifying. Later HO questioned on the seniority as I was claiming 35 points on "5 yrs graduate level experience with 2 yrs senior level" which in reality is perfect truth. If HO would not consider my seniority my total becomes 60 and hence disqualified. We argued that the employers reference letters were clearly confirming my Job title and seniority as Head of Function / Department with duties & responsibilities. Surprisingly HO asked for evidence of the number of staff I was supervising, to further support my seniority. This came as a shock as my being the Head of function / department and related job title and reponsibilities clearly fulfilled the definition of "senior level" in the HSMP application guidance notes. I wonder how HO relates seniority to number of staff supervised. If somebody is working in a corporate office might not have a large team or direct reports, but still could have a senior level job. HO was not convinced and I had to request new reference letter from my employers to confirm the no. of staff I supervised and the detailed company profile. These letters were submitted on 19.01.04 since when I have been simply waiting.

Now according to Josephs's advice, if I question the consultant as to what all documents have been submitted and scrutinize, it will antagonise the consultant. They may also not be willing to spend additional time on this excercise as they themselves are under pressure of work load - but if I take a stand I think I have that right as a customer - is'nt it? The only question is how to make it work smoothly and above all effectively. On the other hand even HO had goofed up on my case as they responded on my application by writing to me directly than to my consultant. Surprisingly I informed the consultant than the other way round. My consultant says this has happened on their other cases aswell.

Further, even if I succeed to scrutinize the documents submitted and if we want to submit more evidence to strengthen the case, I dont know if the HO will accept them at this stage.

Another strange thing is that my consultant confirmed and assured me many times that the delay is because of work load / backlog at HO and not because of any complication or negative implication on m case. I dont know how should I consider this assurance !

Further opinions are requested.

Thanks

[Joseph]

Thanks for the clarification. The definition of Senior Experience is a rather subjective issue which can vary from company to company. The HSMP rules on this matter are really not that clear either. It’s not surprising they ask for specific evidence like number of employees supervised. Another thing they look at informally to determine seniority is salary—perhaps in your case since the salary evidence was weak, that undermined your case for seniority.

One suggestion: is your salary evidence weak or was your salary really not high enough? [Either you made the threshold salary and paid taxes or you didn’t.] If the evidence was weak, was everything possible done to gather all possible collaborating evidence (employer letters, bank statements, PAYE statements etc.) to prove sufficient salary? For example, you don’t need all salary slips if you can provide other evidence like bank deposits and a letter from your employer confirming salary and tax withholding to date. If you can get them to reconsider your salary with the proper documentation, you will get the points and the seniority issue will be a moot point.

Joseph

[Kayalami]

This application has regretably been badly handled and shows how important it is to get it right 1st time because requests for further information from the HSMP Team will add delays to processing times. Joseph has covered pretty much all the grounds I deem applicable to your case ranging from overall responsibility of application remaining with you, to not best to complain now (I agree) and most importantly the issue about further detailed scrutiny pursuant to a withdrawal of income points claim. HSMP Team understandably link seniority with high income and this move got their alarm bells really ringing. Note that processing times increased from October 2003 when the scheme was revised with qualifying points reduced from 75 to 65 and introduction of an under 28 category. Its just that the HSMP Team delayed in announcing this increase so your application going in on the 10th of December was likley at the front of this build up queue.

An HSMP application is in two stages as I explained in my second post to kissnkar:

1. Application for approval on the HSMP programme i.e. the employment/ self employment authorisation.

2. An application to vary your immigration leave (change status) from whatever your are at the moment (student) to HSMP visa.

If you ask for the return of your passport for travel purposes then this is considered a withdrawal of your application to vary leave. You may wish to carefully consider this if your current visa is due to expire. If it has already expired then this is not an option. The reason is that stage 2 will only happen if you have valid leave (visa) at the time a decision is made to vary your status to that of HSMP. If you are not too concerned about this then you will have to leave the UK and apply for a HSMP visa from your home country once stage 1 of HSMP is through - I am sure this is not part of your plan. Alternatively if your current visa will be valid when you return from holiday/meeting your friend you can send ypur passport back to the HSMP Team with a fresh FLR(HSM) application - if on or before 31 March 2003 - see note on FLR(IED) below.

Make sure you initially tell the HSMP Team you are only withdrawing the variation of leave part of the HSMP application. The HSMP Team is under no obligation to consider withdrawal of 1 part of the application only and may ask you to make an out of country application or re-apply upon your return = GBP 150. Also note that from 1 April 2004 the variation of leave part will require the submission of a new form - FLR(IED) replacing FLR(HSM) which you submitted back in Dec 2003. FLR(IED) must be accompanied by a processing fee of GBP121. FLR(HSM) based variation of leave (as is your position) now is still FREE.

Requests for return of passports for non travel reasons e.g. open bank accounts will not withdraw the variation of leave/stage 2 of HSMP application. Make sure you state clearly in your cover letter that the passport request is not for travel reasons. The conclusion of your application will require the return of passports for HSMP endorsments so while you have them stage 2 of HSMP cannot go ahead. In line with Joesph I will also state that IMHO your reasons for requests of passport are not compelling for the HSMP Team to expedite your application. The only way your application can be expedited is if you have a job offer which would be subject to grant of HSMP. You can submit further documents to suport your application at any time before it has been decided upon - do make sure that it is relevant though. Note that the HSMP Team can rightly say consideration of your case commenced on 13.02.04 - given the 6-8 week time frame you would be expecting to hear from them no later than mid April so you just have to be patient.

I note your statement that you came to the UK as a student - I presume you are still one and hence your income for HSMP purposes is sometime back in 2000/2001 - maybe another reason HSMP really looking into it as this from 3 possibly 4 years ago. They may also have concerns about availability of funds to maintain and accomodate yourself and your dependents (you say you have a family) without recourse to public funds.

Lastly note it is easier for the HSMP Team to deal with one person in regards to the application - however this does not mean that you cannot enquire as to progress on the case even where you retain the consultant. If you wish to deal exclusively with the HSMP Team you need to notify them in writing that you are no longer represented by the consultant - obviously you would also need to terminate the contract/arrangement with your consultant and ask for return of all documents in relation to your application. This may or may not have financial consequences subject to the contract you signed.

Good Luck

[kishorebhosale]

The number of HSMP application is increasing to a extend that it is taking minimum 2 months to process. I also read somebody saying it take 3 months now. Since this is a charged service, they should justify thier service by giving the decision by a months time, instead of making the applicant wait for so long.

I hope Home Office would either Increase the number of staff working in HSMP. OR Maybe modify the rules to decrease the number of application.

This may help eliminate the suffering of the existing applicant.

[Chess]

Unfortunately, I suspect the waiting time will get longer as the WP (UK) team are being pushed to the limit.

At the moment there is an on going inquiry into their operation BRACE which was fast tracking Eastern European - business applicants .

so these days every case worker has to watch their back and be thorough. With the workers registration scheme and work approvals to be arranged by WP (UK), we should prepare for a 'summer of delays'.

Despite the fact that applicants are being requested to pay the £150, by the end of this year 2004, HSMP applicants will have a waiting time of 6 months..you heard it here first

[sand_03]

Kayalami, Joseph & other members

Thanks for your previous helpful replies. I was unable to respond to your replies earlier - due to obvious reasons of trying to work forward: getting too stressed waiting!

I want to update you breifly about the 'developments' on my case, and would appreciate further views. This might also help other members preparing applications or waiting for their decisions.

1) I decided to be diplomatic with my consultant and try to work with him to strengthen my douments/case. With this objective I requested for a list of documents which were finally submitted (out of all what I had provided to the consultant) with my application to the Work Permits-UK. Shockingly - my consultant says that they are too busy and cannot provide the list ,as they will have to spend additional time to get the details. Inspite of the fact that I had requested this list of documents in the past, when the application was ready to be submitted to Work Permits-UK, but I did not get suitable response. The consult't stressed that the delay is not due to any complications and that there is certainly a huge backlog with HSMP team and that I should just wait as nothing much can be done. Finally there was a verbal dis-agreement between me & my consult't.

2) After being left on my own, I decided to contact Work Permits-UK to enquire the status and request for urgent decision. The following interactions took place:

24.03.04 - HSMP team no. was continuously busy - but got through Work Permit-Customer relations no. The only info I was provided was that the decision has not yet being made & that they will write an email to HSMP team. Same day I wrote an email to both HSMP team & Cust relations ID, providing the chronological order of the dates starting from the date of application. I also breifly described the urgency for the need of passports & requested for an urgent decision.

05.04.04 - No response received. I sent a reminder, breifly updating on the time frames on the delay and requested urgent decision.

07.04.04 - I received a response email from Cust relations (after 2 weeks) that my email has been forwarded to the HSMP team.

08.04.04 - I received an email from HSMP team, that whilst waiting for additional info my case, it has been kept in queue and that it is now next in line - and that a decision will be made in the next 2 weeks.

15.04.04 (today) - I have received another similar response email from HSMP team. It stated that the case worker has been contacted, who is working overtime to complete the backlog and is hoping to complete my case in 2 weeks time (this extends the 2 week time frame confirmed in email of 08.04.04)

While I am holding my breath, pls provide your views as to whether the above response from HSMP team indicate that the extended delay in my case has been due to genuine backlog or deep scruitiny.

Any other opinions & advice will also be appreciated.

Thanks

[Kayalami]

I am sorry to hear that you have not had much or rather any luck with your consultant - it appears that they took your money and now don't want to know. It should be fairly simple to retrieve your file with all documentation submitted. Goes to show that all applicants should make copies of every document submitted to any person in relation to their application.
I wrote in my post on 20 March 2004, para 4, the last sentence.

Note that the HSMP Team can rightly say consideration of your case commenced on 13.02.04 - given the 6-8 week time frame you would be expecting to hear from them no later than mid April so you just have to be patient.

Processing times have increased since then due to an ever increasing number of HSMP applications. The political furore over the negligent issuance of employment authorisation visas to some Eastern Europeans (Bulgaria & Romania) despite fraudelent info submitted in support of the applications amongst other alleged dodgy 'practices' at the Home Office have not helped as everyone is under pressure to ensure there is no more scandal. Responses from HSMP Team seem to indicate both the background increase in processing times as well as further scrutiny of your documents are delaying a decision being made.
sand_03 wrote on 15 Apr 2004

08.04.04 - I received an email from HSMP team, that whilst waiting for additional info my case, it has been kept in queue and that it is now next in line - and that a decision will be made in the next 2 weeks.

Worrying statement - either means the HSMP Team have not acted on the info supplied on 03.02.04 as per your first post or the consultant submitted the docs well after this i.e.
sand_03 wrote on 19 Mar 2004

03.02.04 - Documents / case allocated to a case worker (as infromed to me by my consultant)

I think its best to let the HSMP Team carry on with processing as is and follow up after the 2 weeks they stated in yesterday's e-mail. In the meantime you need to decide where your documents including the decision letter are to be sent once the HSMP Team are through. The consultant might have a hard time getting these docs to you if they can't even retrieve your file. I know its pretty tough for you but I would urge you to stay calm and focus your energy on the job hunting side of things. I am sure things will work out.

Kind Regards

Kayalami

[sand_03]

Hi Kayalami

You wrote:

Goes to show that all applicants should make copies of every document submitted to any person in relation to their application

I have copies of each document that I supplied to my consultant, but the question is about which specific documents have been finally used / submitted with the application, is not known by me. Anyway I am now not expecting much from my consultant.

You wrote:

Worrying statement - either means the HSMP Team have not acted on the info supplied on 03.02.04 as per your first post or the consultant submitted the docs well after this

Considering that the consultant may have submtted the docs well after 03.02.04, seems unlikely, as in my email to HSMP I had provided all the dates of interactions/deliveries with HSMP, including submitting the additional docs. If this date would not be true, the HSMP would have disputed or clarified the actual date. Still I am not sure - till the actual date is confirmed by HSMP team.

You wrote:

In the meantime you need to decide where your documents including the decision letter are to be sent once the HSMP Team are through

I am not sure whether I am bound by the fact that I have authorised my consultant to be my representative and that the application / docs were submitted by them - is it possible for me to request HSMP to send the decision letter to me instead? Normally the consultant would get the decision letter and the docs - and once their accounts are settled then they would release / forward them to the me / applicant ! However I would prefer to get the decision atleast directly sent to me. Is it actually possible ?

You wrote:

I know its pretty tough for you but I would urge you to stay calm and focus your energy on the job hunting side of things

About job hunting I was of the opinion that the best time to strike is when the iron is hot i.e to apply when I have the HSMP approval letter. Without the approval any employer would be reluctant to select a candidate where the right to work full time has not yet been authorised. Delay in HSMP approval will be another factor as the potential employer will expect certainity about when any candidate can join.

While I tend to agree with you that the best is to stay calm and wait, pls provide your further opinion on the above points.

Thanks

[AtW]

Something is definately not right with documents - I applied at the same time and had positive response by Xmas (2 weeks).

[Kayalami]

sand_03 wrote:

I have copies of each document that I supplied to my consultant, but the question is about which specific documents have been finally used / submitted with the application, is not known by me. Anyway I am now not expecting much from my consultant.

Correct that only the consultant knows this – however having your own copies ensures there is no scope for any dispute as to what you gave him/ her to submit to HSMP Team.

Considering that the consultant may have submtted the docs well after 03.02.04, seems unlikely, as in my email to HSMP I had provided all the dates of interactions/deliveries with HSMP, including submitting the additional docs. If this date would not be true, the HSMP would have disputed or clarified the actual date. Still I am not sure - till the actual date is confirmed by HSMP team.

I am somewhat lost as to the different timings vis a vis your initial post and the ‘update one’ on the traffic btwn the consultant, HSMP Team and you – perhaps too much content over a wide area .

I am not sure whether I am bound by the fact that I have authorised my consultant to be my representative and that the application / docs were submitted by them - is it possible for me to request HSMP to send the decision letter to me instead? Normally the consultant would get the decision letter and the docs - and once their accounts are settled then they would release / forward them to the me / applicant ! However I would prefer to get the decision atleast directly sent to me. Is it actually possible ?

As per my initial post you can inform the HSMP Team in writing that your consultant is no longer acting for you and that all documentation including the decision letter be returned directly to you.

About job hunting I was of the opinion that the best time to strike is when the iron is hot i.e to apply when I have the HSMP approval letter. Without the approval any employer would be reluctant to select a candidate where the right to work full time has not yet been authorised. Delay in HSMP approval will be another factor as the potential employer will expect certainity about when any candidate can join.

1. I was referring to all the relevant activities related to job hunting from getting your CV into shape, scheduling interviews, understanding the relevant business sectors, networking etc that should IMHO be undertaken concurrently with the HSMP application.

2. A job offer can expedite your application with the HSMP Team.

Hope that helps.

[sand_03]

Thanks for yr response Kayalami

A major development. I got an email frm HSMP team that "A letter has been posted on 17.04.04". I called Work permits Customer Relations and they confirmed that it is the decision ltr sent alongwith the documents. They also said that the passports have been forwarded to the In country team for leave to remain.

I wrote back to HSMP to confirm if the ltr was sent to me or to my rep/consultant - to which they confirmed it hs bn sent to my rep, and that the application hs now bn passed on to In country team for them to make their decision for Leave to remain, which at the moment is taking about 3 weeks.

This letter has not yet reached my rep / consultant - so I dont know the decision.

Can the experts pls help me to clarify the following, while I am holding my breath:

1) Will this letter confirm the HSMP approval or would it be a standard ltr stating that the documents are being returned and the deciosn is being taken (possibly subject to Leave to remain decsion)
2) Does the HSMP response stated above, indicate that the 1st decision has been taken and then only the leave to remain decsion is required?
3) How much time really is the In country team taking to make the Leave to remain decision?

Thanks in anticipation of yr replies...

[tdabash]

They also said that the passports have been forwarded to the In country team for leave to remain.

Could you please stop worrying.

When you get your leave to remain, I think you would owe a big apology to your consultant.

I would like to thank every one who participated in this forum;especially chess, joseph and Kayalami.