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On August 28th the Belgian Embassy Dublin wrote:If you are married to an EU citizen or one or both of your parents are EU citizens the visa is free of charge. Please provide the Embassy with your marriage - or birth certificate and your spouse’s passport or your parent(s) passport(s) as proof.
On September 11th the Estonian Embassy Dublin wrote:Third country nationals who are family members of EU or EEA citizens may visit Estonia without a visa if they have a residence card of another EU member state. For more information: "Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the Union."
On September 10th the German Embassy Dublin wrote:If you are married to an EU-citizen and your Garda Card
is a “4EUFamâ€
As the holder of this particular Residence Card you will not be required to obtain an Irish re-entry visa...
Slovenia described the situation exactly as it is, saying that we do not need a visa but as this is unfortunately not known to all mmigration officials we can (but do not have to) apply for a visa by providing both passports and the marriage-certificate (only), and the visa will then be issued, free of charge, after 2 days, just to avoid any possible complications on arrival.
Among the EU countries, Slovenia and Denmark seem to get the gold medal so far. (Denmark took two goes to answer the question, but the answer is in writing; Slovenia were very prompt and rang up, but that is perhaps not as useful as an answer in writing...) Anyway, the answers from both of these countries' missions seem ideal: correctly stating as they do the legal situation but tempering their answer with common sense.Denmark: Your wife with a EU4Fam-card does not need a visa if she is travelling together with her husband (EU-citizen) [and] can somehow prove that she is joining up with her EU citizen husband there.
Unfortunately these rules are not always well known for immigration officers at borders and airports. However they have been informed of the rules. If there are troubles of unawarity from the immigration officers, it will therefore eventually not block entry. Therefore travel with the EU4Fam-card and a passport is sufficient for your trip.
It is possible (but not necessary) to issue a visa, which is free and can be made in a few days. The visas for Denmark are handled...
It further seems extraordinary that a non-EU country knows and is able to quote the rules for the EU countries when a large number of the EU countries get it wrong. Again, can this point be made in the submission?In response to your enquiry we would like to inform you that your wife would need a visa to visit Iceland.
Lebanese passport holders require a Schengen visa to visit Iceland. To verify this please visit the website of the Icelandic Directory of Immigration... As Iceland is not a member state of the EU the EU4 Fam card will not be sufficient to travel to Iceland so Schengen rules will have to apply.
To view exemptions from visa requirements to enter Iceland, please visit...
Schengen visas for Iceland are arranged through...
From previous experience I am not expecting an answer from Italy, Spain and the UK, however of course hoping for one.ashimashi wrote:...I won't expect a reply from Spanish embassy...
The usual suspects who think they are too big to toe the line, yet they shout and make noise about adhering to the rule of law. Useless lot.ca.funke wrote:From previous experience I am not expecting an answer from Italy, Spain and the UK, however of course hoping for one.ashimashi wrote:...I won't expect a reply from Spanish embassy...
For the others who didn't reply yet I have no experience (Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Luxemburg and Portugal)
Greece I will ring, as their email keeps being full.
Does anyone have other email addresses?
Both Ireland and the UK interpret the Directive in the way that they would only have to accept residence cards issued by themselves. And I suspect that's the root of all the trouble. Some countries obviously follow the children-in-the-sandbox attitude "If you don't do it, we won't do it either..." EDIT: On a second thought. Do we actually have information on how residence permits of Romania, Bulgaria, and Cyprus are treated by the Schengen countries?zuz wrote:I just received answer from Slovak embassy in Dublin.
They were very helpful. E-mail is quite long and it's basicly saying that Irish (and UK also) have never confirmed the cards can be used for this purpose (as they have issued the same cards before this directive).
...
Also say these cards do not have som important symbols and are not notified by relevant institutions.
Hi 86ti,86ti wrote:I think the format of the residence permit should actually follow "Council Regulation (EC) No 1030/2002 of 13 June 2002 laying down a uniform format for residence permits for third-country nationals" but this is pre-2004 so don't know if that document applies here at all. But not issuing these cards in the right format is simply a failure of those countries.
So if Ireland issues a "residence card as referred to in Article 10", and the only difference between "all other residence permits" and "EU-Family-permits" is the fact that "EU-Family-permits" in Ireland read "Stamp 4EUFam", then it's the obligation of all other member-states to be aware of this, or is it Irelands obligation to follow the uniform format you quoted?Article 5
Right of entry
1.(...)
2.Family members who are not nationals of a Member State (...) For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.
No Name wrote:I would like to inform you that your assumption that Norway and Iceland are not bound by Directive 2004/38/EC is incorrect.
If they are issued for family-members of EU-citizens they SHOULD allow entry throughout the EU too.86ti wrote:On a second thought. Do we actually have information on how residence permits of Romania, Bulgaria, and Cyprus are treated by the Schengen countries?
As a summary - none of the information given is complete or fully correct as of now.In Cyprus at least they say:
- Familienmitglieder von EU-Staatsangehörigen müssen lediglich Ihren Pass, die Aufenthaltsgenehmigung für Zypern, Heirats- oder Geburtsurkunde zum Nachweis des Verwandtschaftsverhältnisses sowie den Pass und Passkopie des EU-Staatangehörigen vorlegen.
- Translation: Family-members of EU-citizens must only present their passport, the residence-permit for Cyprus, marriage or birth-certificate as proof of the family-tie, the passport and a copy of the passport of the EU-citizen.
- Visa-Free travel as per Directive 2004/38/EC is omitted.
- The fact that a visa for family-members is free (or at least should be) is omitted as well.
It is correct that the EEA countries Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are bound by Directive 2004/38/EC (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 01:EN:HTML)If what you say is correct
However the answer ca.funke got from the Icelandic embassy was incorrect and therefore not impressive:The Icelandic answer is, in my opinion, the most impressive one overall, as it correctly describes the situation inside the EU, as well as how this affects Iceland.
Even if Iceland is not a member of EU, Iceland is a member of the EEA and therefore bound by Directive 2004/38/EC so a EU4 Fam card should be sufficent to travel to Iceland if travelling with the EU national.Lebanese passport holders require a Schengen visa to visit Iceland. To verify this please visit the website of the Icelandic Directory of Immigration... As Iceland is not a member state of the EU the EU4 Fam card will not be sufficient to travel to Iceland so Schengen rules will have to apply.
The Agreement creating the European Economic Area (EEA) entered into force on 1 January 1994. It allows the EEA EFTA States (Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) to participate in the Internal Market on the basis of their application of Internal Market relevant acquis. All new relevant Community legislation is dynamically incorporated into the Agreement and thus applies throughout the EEA, ensuring the homogeneity of the internal market.
The EEA Agreement is concerned principally with the four fundamental pillars of the Internal Market, “the four freedoms", i.e. freedom of movement of goods, persons, services and capital. But also “flanking policiesâ€
However they seem not to practice what they preach as they have failed to implement Directive 2004/38/EC and demand a Schengen visa from family members of EU citizens.The EEA Agreement is constantly evolving. New EU rules governing the internal market must be implemented in Norwegian law as they are adopted. This is done through decisions in the EEA Joint Committee, on which the EFTA countries and the EU Commission are both represented. All new rules that are adopted in the EEA Joint Committee must be incorporated into each country’s legislation.
If you are married to an EU citizen or one or both of your parents are EU citizens the visa is free of charge. Please provide the Embassy with your marriage - or birth certificate and your spouse’s passport or your parent(s) passport(s) as proof.
Our visit to Belgium over the weekend was a formal catastrophe: The 4EUFam card was practically unknown on arrival in Brussels. After 5 minutes someone in the backoffice knew about it. Passport got stamped anyway.archigabe wrote:Belgian Embassy,Dublin.
http://www.diplomatie.be/dublin/default ... =27&mnu=28
If you are married to an EU citizen or one or both of your parents are EU citizens the visa is free of charge. Please provide the Embassy with your marriage - or birth certificate and your spouse’s passport or your parent(s) passport(s) as proof.