FLR M refused - do I face deportation?

[Alsace67000]

Hello,
I have a very specific situation I need some help with.
I am a Bangladeshi national and French resident. I applied for a visit visa and arrived in the UK from France in January 2020.
I travelled with my wife who was living with me for 3 months in France, she is a British National.
We ended up facing some unexpected problems - my wife ended up becoming a carer for my brother in law in the UK and she herself became diagnosed with a disability. She now receives carers allowance and the limited capability for work and work related activity element of universal credit.
We applied for FLRM on the basis of exceptional circumstances. We could not apply for a spouse visa as my wife had only been received carers allowance for 3 months. If we returned to France or Bangladesh, my wife would not be able to care for my brother in law. If I left without her, I could not monitor her disability (severe depression and arthritis).
Of course the home office service points are only open to customers who applied earlier on, but if I were to have an appointment for my biometrics soon, how long do you think it’ll take for my application to be assessed?
I would also appreciate advice on what the chances of my application successful would be, based on the reasons I provided.
Please keep in mind I have no children but we are trying for a baby.
Kindest regards!

[seagul]

If we returned to France or Bangladesh, my wife would not be able to care for my brother in law. If I left without her, I could not monitor her disability (severe depression and arthritis).

That situation almost nobody will ever be ready to accept where someone is caring someone whilst herself need of being cared by someone. One of the biggest determinant of carer allowance is to work for at least 35 hours a week.Maybe JB007 unfold it further.
https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/eligibility

[Alsace67000]

Thanks for your reply.
Carer allowance does not specify clearly that the carer has to do physical work. My wife provides emotional support and often does tasks for my brother in law such as read his bills and phone places and interpret in English for him. This equals to a good 35 hours a week.
I feel like if the home office think that just because my wife has a disability she is unable to do ANYTHING then that’s a bit mean on us. Because the benefit office have stated to us that that my wife can be a carer and also receive disability benefits at the same time, as long as they don’t overlap if that makes sense

[seagul]

Regret to say that you have to leave and apply from abroad as flights to France are perfectly working.

[Alsace67000]

Hi everyone,

I have searched but couldn’t quite find something relating to my query, so I’m making a new topic if that’s okay.

I have a question - I have applied for FLR M, I’m patiently waiting of course. I tend to worry about the future a lot - if my application gets refused, and my appeal too, does this mean I have to leave the UK immediately?

I follow this immigration programme on Facebook and they once said that if my wife is British and/or I have kids then the HO have no right to deport me, even if I have no LTR. Is this true?

Thank you!

[CULLINAN]

Dont worry. Worst case scenario, if refused, you can apply for FLR(FP) on partner or parent basis.

My friend’s initial FLR(M) was refused, then appeals went on, he was granted on FLR(FP) 10 year parent route.

Hope for the best.

[CR001]

Dont worry. Worst case scenario, if refused, you can apply for FLR(FP) on partner or parent basis.

My friend’s initial FLR(M) was refused, then appeals went on, he was granted on FLR(FP) 10 year parent route.

Hope for the best.

Topics merged so you can see the full circumstances, ie user in the UK on a visitor visa.

[JB007]

If we returned to France or Bangladesh, my wife would not be able to care for my brother in law. If I left without her, I could not monitor her disability (severe depression and arthritis).

That situation almost nobody will ever be ready to accept where someone is caring someone whilst herself need of being cared by someone. One of the biggest determinant of carer allowance is to work for at least 35 hours a week.Maybe JB007 unfold it further.
https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/eligibility

I've only just read this.

Nobody can understand that but the UK does allow somebody who claims they can't work and claiming benefits themself for that, to claim Carer's Allowance for another person also.

However when the carer has their regular medical to continue to receive their benefits, it will be noted that they are able to do this work. They must tell the DWP when they are able to work/do some work.

For Carer's Allowance or the carer's element of Universal Credit-

The type of care you provide

You need to spend at least 35 hours a week caring for someone. This can include:

helping with washing and cooking
taking the person you care for to a doctor’s appointment
helping with household tasks, like managing bills and shopping



From what the OP has said, it seems as if his wife has only been placed in the group that is expected to be able to return to work soon, the work related activity group.


The claiming of Carers Allllowance, reduces the benefit amount of the person being cared for.

[JB007]

My wife provides emotional support and often does tasks for my brother in law such as read his bills and phone places and interpret in English for him. This equals to a good 35 hours a week.

Has she told the DWP that this is all she is doing?

I feel like if the home office think that just because my wife has a disability she is unable to do ANYTHING then that’s a bit mean on us.

It sounds from your first post that your wife has declared to the DWP that she can't work at all and is receiving that part of Universal Credit (this replaces the old benefit called ESA) ? It sounds like that from your above statement too? UC is a joint claim and you can look on her UC statment online to check.

People who claim disabilty (PIP) can and do work full time. People claiming Carer's Allowance can also do other paid employment too, up to a limit.

PIP is nothing to do with the Universal Credit and this benefit does notreduce the Universal Credit payment.

Carer's Allowance reduces the Universal Credit payment, pound for pound but they can claim a carer's element under Universal Credit

Because the benefit office have stated to us that that my wife can be a carer and also receive disability benefits at the same time, as long as they don’t overlap if that makes sense

As said, people on PIP (disablity) can work full time.

[JB007]

Personal Independence Payment (PIP) can help you with some of the extra costs if you have a long term ill-health or disability.
https://www.gov.uk/pip

You can get PIP whether you’re working or not.
https://www.gov.uk/pip/eligibility



https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/if-youre-working-



For Universal Credit-

1. Definition of a couple

The Department for Work and Pensions counts 2 people as being in a couple if they live in the same household and are:

married to each other
civil partners of each other
living together as if they were married

2. Claiming Universal Credit

If you are part of a couple you and your partner will need to make a joint claim for Universal Credit.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... or-couples


Renting and claiming Universal Credit-

f your partner’s leave is subject to a no recourse to public funds restriction, you should seek specialist immigration advice before making a claim, if you and your partner are joint tenants. As your partner’s share of the rent is used to calculate the housing element of Universal Credit, this might be considered as recourse to public funds, which could affect their right to remain in the UK.
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guid ... de-content

[arjay]

Regret to say that you have to leave and apply from abroad as flights to France are perfectly working.

Yes, as said above, surely if you came to the UK on a visit visa then you have no right to stay on and must leave. Any other (type of) visa must then be applied for from outside the UK.

[JB007]

I feel like if the home office think that just because my wife has a disability she is unable to do ANYTHING then that’s a bit mean on us.

It's your wife who has declared that she cannot work. She claims extra benefit money for that through Universal Credit.

If she can work, she can end that part of her Universal Credit claim. As said, she is allowed to do some paid work while claiming Carer's Allowance.

She now receives carers allowance and the limited capability for work and work related activity element of universal credit.

Work Capability Assessment

...
You’ll be told if you need to have a Work Capability Assessment. This is to see to what extent your illness or disability affects your ability to work.

If you have limited capability for work and work related activity, you’ll get extra money. You do not need to look for work or prepare for work.
https://www.gov.uk/health-conditions-di ... sal-credit

[JB007]

Regret to say that you have to leave and apply from abroad as flights to France are perfectly working.

Yes, as said above, surely if you came to the UK on a visit visa then you have no right to stay on and must leave. Any other (type of) visa must then be applied for from outside the UK.

Why don't you leave the UK and then apply for a spouse visa? Have you worked in the UK? Have you used the NHS without paying? Have you taken UK Public Funds?

[Alsace67000]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies

Just to confirm I am not using the NHS, public funds or working - not doing anything I’m not supposed to do. I came on a visit visa and didn’t intend to stay, but unfortunately we have to which is why we applied for flr m. We have some exceptional circumstances (I did Not mention them all as some of the info is very personal) so I can’t go back to France or Bangladesh and apply.
My solicitor was also the one who told me FLR M was the only way forward otherwise before my situation got serious I would’ve applied for something else.

Just to clarify - DWP know the type of care my wife provides and they said there’s no reason she can’t claim PIP. She doesn’t claim it though, finds is unnecessary right now.
She gets the Limited capability for work and work related activity, so Universal Crdit don’t expect her to look for work. She doesn’t get the carer element of UC but gets Carer’s allowance.

Regards to my comment about the Home Office, I was trying to say if the home office is saying my wife cannot care for someone because she has a disability that’s a bit mean. Because her care doesn’t relate to her disability if that makes sense?

Thank you everyone for your comments and advise. Just clarifying that no, I’m not doing anything I’m not supposed to do.

I’m also not a part of my partners Universal Credit claim because I don’t have public funds and the conditions of my leave (visit) do not allow this.

[arjay]

My understanding is that leave to remain (as in initial leave to remain) can only be applied for from outside the UK.

For example, my friend who was in the UK on a visit visa had to return to Thailand in order to apply for a spouse visa. They would not allow her to apply from within the UK.

[Alsace67000]

@arjay thanks for your reply.

I would appreciate if you have a look at this;

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus ... -in-the-uk

“ If you decide to stay in the UK, you should apply for the necessary leave to remain in the UK. You’ll also be able to submit an application form from within the UK where you would usually need to apply for a visa from your home country.

You’ll need to meet the requirements of the route you’re applying for and pay the UK application fee.”

[arjay]

@arjay thanks for your reply.

I would appreciate if you have a look at this;

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus ... -in-the-uk

“ If you decide to stay in the UK, you should apply for the necessary leave to remain in the UK. You’ll also be able to submit an application form from within the UK where you would usually need to apply for a visa from your home country.

You’ll need to meet the requirements of the route you’re applying for and pay the UK application fee.”

OK, I hadn't seen that additional part, which must have been introduced because of Covid. Note, therefore, I am not conversant with how that would work. I would assume that as the current/expiring visa is a visit visa, (even though your are in the UK) you would have to start from the beginning and apply for initial entry under the appropriate category - e.g. spouse or partner, - and not from the FLR route, as FLR usually comes into play after 2.5 years in the UK under an acceptable category. Though I stand to be corrected by someone with greater knowledge on this.

[Alsace67000]

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, this was introduced because of COVID-19.
When I applied for my application I received an email from FLRMValidate, and my solicitor told me my application was FLR M.

To my knowledge I have applied on the 10 year partner route, my wife didn’t have to show finances, and we showed that there were exceptional circumstances where my wife and I Would be affected If our application was rejected and if we had to live outside the UK.

So apologies on my part if this isn’t actually called FLR M, I’m just following what my solicitor told me. She told me my application is called FLR M. Please keep in mind I don’t have the best knowledge regarding this, so please do let me know if I’m wrongly addressing my application as FLR M. Thanks

[CR001]

The 10 year partner route is FLR FP not FLR M.

[Alsace67000]

Thanks for the clarification.
Seems like my solicitor was giving me the wrong info.
I kept thinking it was FLR M especially because I received all my emails from FLRMValidate.
Thank you everyone for your advice and help.

[Zerubbabel]

Hello,
I have a very specific situation I need some help with.
I am a Bangladeshi national and French resident. I applied for a visit visa and arrived in the UK from France in January 2020.
I travelled with my wife who was living with me for 3 months in France, she is a British National.
We ended up facing some unexpected problems - my wife ended up becoming a carer for my brother in law in the UK and she herself became diagnosed with a disability. She now receives carers allowance and the limited capability for work and work related activity element of universal credit.
We applied for FLRM on the basis of exceptional circumstances. We could not apply for a spouse visa as my wife had only been received carers allowance for 3 months. If we returned to France or Bangladesh, my wife would not be able to care for my brother in law. If I left without her, I could not monitor her disability (severe depression and arthritis).
Of course the home office service points are only open to customers who applied earlier on, but if I were to have an appointment for my biometrics soon, how long do you think it’ll take for my application to be assessed?
I would also appreciate advice on what the chances of my application successful would be, based on the reasons I provided.
Please keep in mind I have no children but we are trying for a baby.
Kindest regards!

You probably confused France and United Kingdom when it comes to immigration.

In France, the rule is: just stay by any means. Fill as many applications as possible. Make it complex. Drag it over time. Then sooner or later, they are fed up of seeing you and they will issue a residence card.

I don't believe that this is the correct approach with the Home Office.

Sorry to be honest, but you sound like just someone who want to flout the rules. As you may know, there are a lot of British people living across the world with their other half and kids because they don't meet the criteria to return to the UK. There are even separated households, involving kids who see a mother or a father on FaceTime or Zoom. This is just to articulate how strong these immigration barriers are.

You can't just expect to jump the stack by claiming your wife has a brother in law with arthritis and depression. In my family network, I can easily identify 5 people with arthritis and twice as many feeling depressed to various levels. In this day and age, pretty much everyone has someone in the family with depression, obsessional troubles, insomnia, epigastric hernia... etc. But you can hardly build a valid immigration case by the claim that this person needs your constant care.

Your wife is British. She can stay as much as she wants. She doesn't need to justify her presence by being a carer of anyone. But she doesn't meet the criteria to sponsor you.

There are other British people who MUST stay in the UK because themselves have NHS treatments, or kids at school... but they can't bring their other half because they don't meet the criteria.

So beyond your specific circumstances, there is nothing that says if a British can't leave the UK for whatever reason, the Home Office must drop the revenue and housing eligibility criteria.

[Alsace67000]

Hi again everyone,

It seems like my solicitor has given me wrong information and I have been quite careless too to realise that my application was FLR FP, not FLR M.

In the cover letter that I submitted with my application I stated that I applied for FLR M. Does anyone reckon this will this be a problem? Will the home office likely reject my application by saying I gave false information?

I hope my application won’t be refused because of this. I have heard the HO find the most random reasons to reject applications.

[Alsace67000]

@Zerubbabel

I’ve just seen your comment so apologies for the delay in responding.

I think your comment is a bit insensitive. I have the right to not disclose all the info regarding my case which is why I mentioned the smaller part of the bigger picture. There are serious reasons as to why I cannot leave the UK, I’m not obliged to tell anyone them and I don’t appreciate being told I’m trying to flout the rules.

I came to France at the age of 15, without parents or family, knowing no french or even English. I worked hard for my residency. I did not pester or bother or apply or make anything complex. My residency is well earned but that’s gone to waste now since I can’t go back to France.

While it is sad that children and spouses are separated it doesn’t mean my situation isn’t sad either. It’s like saying you can’t be sad because someone else is more upset than you. No one is jumping the stack here. There are varying degrees of arthritis. My wife is 19 and she’s had it since she was 4. She’s had various complications, operations, secondary problems etc. And yes there’s loads of people with depression but does that mean it’s not serious?

Also if you read my post my wife is caring for MY brother in law. And she’s not caring for him to prove she can stay - she has no choice but to care for him and that reason is something we do not want to disclose on a public forum.

I would like to say that reading your reply really upset me, as you made it sound like I think I’m better than the other applications, that I’m irrelevant and that I’m trying to break the rules. I have used public funds, the nhs, etc.

[Zerubbabel]

You probably confused France and United Kingdom when it comes to immigration.

In France, the rule is: just stay by any means. Fill as many applications as possible. Make it complex. Drag it over time. Then sooner or later, they are fed up of seeing you and they will issue a residence card.

I don't believe that this is the correct approach with the Home Office.

Sorry to be honest, but you sound like just someone who want to flout the rules. As you may know, there are a lot of British people living across the world with their other half and kids because they don't meet the criteria to return to the UK. There are even separated households, involving kids who see a mother or a father on FaceTime or Zoom. This is just to articulate how strong these immigration barriers are.

You can't just expect to jump the stack by claiming your wife has a brother in law with arthritis and depression. In my family network, I can easily identify 5 people with arthritis and twice as many feeling depressed to various levels. In this day and age, pretty much everyone has someone in the family with depression, obsessional troubles, insomnia, epigastric hernia... etc. But you can hardly build a valid immigration case by the claim that this person needs your constant care.

Your wife is British. She can stay as much as she wants. She doesn't need to justify her presence by being a carer of anyone. But she doesn't meet the criteria to sponsor you.

There are other British people who MUST stay in the UK because themselves have NHS treatments, or kids at school... but they can't bring their other half because they don't meet the criteria.

So beyond your specific circumstances, there is nothing that says if a British can't leave the UK for whatever reason, the Home Office must drop the revenue and housing eligibility criteria.

[arjay]

The 10 year partner route is FLR FP not FLR M.

But surely, this person doesn't have leave to remain (at all), as he/she entered on a visit visa. So how can he/she apply for "Further Leave to Remain? Shouldn't the next step be to apply for initial entry under an acceptable category? Had it not been for Covid he/she would have had to leave the UK already (or by whenever the visit visa expires).