Travelling within the EU after Dec 31, 2020 ?

[Zerubbabel]

Hello Experts

I would like to share something with you to get your opinion please.

- I am EEA + British
- My wife non-EEA (visa national) with EEA PR + Settled status (not Surinder Singh or anything. I just naturalised British after her PR)

We would like to spend Dec / Jan / Feb in Europe to escape the Covid hysteria in the UK. There are other places with a much balanced approach.

If we travel in December, my wife can enter France (though Dover / Calais Ferry) and then drive where we want.

Now, when we will be back, even if we are leaving the EU, often they control and they can take exception if they feel the person wasn't fully legal there.

We can either flash the EEA PR in Feb or March 2021 and see what they say. Or, I can just show my EEA passport + certificate of marriage and claim my wife is fully legal as the spouse of an EEA national and no EEA card is even needed.

[kamoe]

You might need to think about the entry into the EU itself, not only about the exit.

Strictly speaking, if your wife is non-EU and visa-required national, her EEA RC stands in for a visa that expires on Dec 31st. As such, she might be subject to the same demands that visa holders face when attempting to enter the EU, e.g. asked to prove that they will leave the territory by the visa expiration date, by showing a return ticket (or slot on the eurotunnel, if going by car), for a date before Dec 31st.

[Zerubbabel]

I can have a flexible ticket that allows me to come back when I want.

Also, what if not even showing the EEA card issues but the UK. No EEA card. Just my passport, hers and our certificate or marriage. They can't anything against that.

[kamoe]

I can have a flexible ticket that allows me to come back when I want.

As long as you have something at the ready that has a date that suggest you will come back by Dec 31st. Of course this is just symbolic, anyone can change a booking.

Also, what if not even showing the EEA card issues but the UK.

I'm sorry, can you rephrase the above? You might have missed a word and I cannot make sense of what you want to say...

No EEA card. Just my passport, hers and our certificate or marriage. They can't anything against that.

Who's they? UK border control or French border control?

[Zerubbabel]

Sorry, I write too fast and sometimes I leave words

I meant, when entering France, she won't show the EEA card issued by the UK (EEA PR). But only our passports and the marriage certificate. This should be enough to let her in. I believe with that, even if we stay beyond Dec 31, she won't be an overstayer.

The EEA PR, she will show to British immigration when back in Feb or March. She is "Settled" but they don't issue a new card if you hold already the valid EEA one.

[kamoe]

I meant, when entering France, she won't show the EEA card issued by the UK (EEA PR). But only our passports and the marriage certificate. This should be enough to let her in. I believe with that, even if we stay beyond Dec 31, she won't be an overstayer.

Thin line there.

You will both have the right to travel to France, to visit or settle, until before Dec 31st. So technically speaking, yes, you can both enter the French territory up until that date. See communication from the French consulate here.

But... come 11 PM of December 31st, if your visit was purely for tourist purposes, and not with the intention of settling in France, I would not bank on saying she has not overstayed. Hence why she might or might not face questions like what's the purpose of your visit, and when are you travelling back; the latter likely being crucial.

The EEA PR, she will show to British immigration when back in Feb or March. She is "Settled" but they don't issue a new card if you hold already the valid EEA one.

They might still allow entry with old EEA RC cards. But, it has been communicated for over a year and a half now that these cards expire on Dec 31st. Even though we have been able to gather information on their extended validity if used to apply for the Settlement Scheme, this information is not vox populi, is not published and not easily available on any website, but here. The border officer might disagree. I'd personally prefer to sort my EUSS card before I do any travel abroad after December 31st.

She might need to apply for a EUSS Family Permit in France to facilitate her entry into the UK. Or, plan and convert her current EEA RC into a EUSS RC before the trip.

Sorry, you asked for opinions.

[White_Pearl]

[/quote]

She might need to apply for a EUSS Family Permit in France to facilitate her entry into the UK. Or, plan and convert her current EEA RC into a EUSS RC before the trip.

Sorry, you asked for opinions.
[/quote]

Is she allowed to apply for EUSS Family Permit from France as she is not a resident in France?

[Zerubbabel]

Thank you for your opinion. It's really valuable for me.

We decided that she applies for Schengen visa. We will do that soon and the visa will start on Jan 1st. So that will got her covered for the rest of the trip.

She applied for EU Settlement Scheme and got "Settled" status but despite her being a visa national, they never sent a card showing that. So I assumed that she can just keep using her EEA PR and they will find out in the computer at the border.

[kamoe]

She might need to apply for a EUSS Family Permit in France to facilitate her entry into the UK. Or, plan and convert her current EEA RC into a EUSS RC before the trip.

Sorry, you asked for opinions.

Is she allowed to apply for EUSS Family Permit from France as she is not a resident in France?

OK, someone might want to verify this, but at least for EEA FP, I have the understanding it is not necessary to be a national of the country you are applying in. I am pretty sure it not necessary be a resident. I am assuming the same applies for EUSS FP.

[Zerubbabel]

I contacted the EU Settlement Scheme resolution centre about BRC card. I am reading the letter confirming the Settled status and it says this:



As she already holds a EEA PR card valid until 2028, they didn't send her a EUSS BRC. We believed she can travel back to the UK with that because her EUSS right it tied to that card. But I am not sure now.

[Zerubbabel]

On a personal note, I left my country in 1991 and have been filling immigration documents since then for myself and my family + friends. I filled them on paper, online, on many languages, for visitor visas, citizenship, student visas, administrative reviews, appeals, asylum, lost documents... I am just sick of it. I just want 1 year in my life without immigration paperwork. I don't think it will happen one day...

[White_Pearl]

She might need to apply for a EUSS Family Permit in France to facilitate her entry into the UK. Or, plan and convert her current EEA RC into a EUSS RC before the trip.

Sorry, you asked for opinions.

https://visas-immigration.service.gov.u ... -selection Enter any country and it says: You must usually enter the country where you live.

So it lookslike it’s not mandatory to apply from the country where you are a resident.


Is she allowed to apply for EUSS Family Permit from France as she is not a resident in France?

OK, someone might want to verify this, but at least for EEA FP, I have the understanding it is not necessary to be a national of the country you are applying in. I am pretty sure it not necessary be a resident. I am assuming the same applies for EUSS FP.

[Zerubbabel]

It's possible to apply for it to return if you lost your permit or expired while you are abroad (within 3 months). But with the Covid, I would rather avoid that because it means travelling to one of the few open biometric partners and waiting possibly months to get an appointment.

So in our plans, we need to be able to return without applying for anything from abroad.

[kamoe]

I contacted the EU Settlement Scheme resolution centre about BRC card. I am reading the letter confirming the Settled status and it says this:



As she already holds a EEA PR card valid until 2028, they didn't send her a EUSS BRC. We believed she can travel back to the UK with that because her EUSS right it tied to that card. But I am not sure now.

I am in the same situation. Have valid EEA RC card, and status under the Settlement Scheme, which means I did not get a new card. This arrangement has worked for me until now, and obviously, I also ponder what the next step is come December 31st 2020.

As I see it, the Home Office decided not to issue new cards, for EEA card holders, simply because they were redundant while EEA cards were valid. In that sense, it made sense to tell people back in 2019 they could still use these cards. However... I keep notice of the fact that it has been clearly and repeatedly communicated that EEA RC cards will expire on Dec 31st 2020. As such, I do not think the message has even been for people to still rely on their EEA cards past that date. I believe the intended message is: Use your EEA RC card throughout 2019 and 2020, but make sure you have applied to convert it to a EUSS card come December 31st, at least if you intend to travel abroad and come back in after that date.

Or at least that is the first course of action I would personally follow.

[Zerubbabel]

In 2019, we didn't care too much about the EUSS card. The Home Office said at the time "Keep you EEA card" and anyway, we prefer the EEA card as it allows visa free for international travel within the EU while the EUSS is worthless in that regard.

But now, we started feeling the heat.

Like we decided to apply for a Schengen visa for my wife to cover her from Jan 1st to March 30th. So when we come back, nobody is going to comment. But... Are they going to give her a Schengen visa? They may say: your residence in the UK won't be valid for that period!!!

We contacted the Home Office about the EUSS card. We have a case logged with them. I will let you know if they come back with anything sensible.

I believe it may depends on the deal or no deal with the EU. That will be decided next week I believe.

[kamoe]

We contacted the Home Office about the EUSS card. We have a case logged with them. I will let you know if they come back with anything sensible.

Have you applied to convert the card?

I believe it may depends on the deal or no deal with the EU. That will be decided next week I believe.

In my understanding everything regarding the EUSS cards is clear and spelled out. Why would further details of the negotiations be of any difference?

[kamoe]

I am just sick of it. I just want 1 year in my life without immigration paperwork. I don't think it will happen one day...

The solution might be right in front of you. Is your travel actually essential?

[Zerubbabel]

Have you applied to convert the card?

Do you have the link for the card conversion? When I searched, I found only how to apply for the EUSS itself. She already applied last year and has Settled status. I would like to find out how to apply for the card now.

[kamoe]

Do you have the link for the card conversion? When I searched, I found only how to apply for the EUSS itself. She already applied last year and has Settled status. I would like to find out how to apply for the card now.

Here: https://visas-immigration.service.gov.u ... nt-service
Second option, "Update or replace your Biometric Residence Card (BRC)"

However... now that I think of it, if your wife has PR/Settled Status and you are British, she is likely already eligible for British Citizenship. Why not go for that?

[Zerubbabel]

Thank you for that I never managed to find it.

She already applied for BC a couple of months ago but I am not great believer in the outcome of that application. We just chanced it. She was an overstayer when we met and that was during the last 10 years

I can demonstrate she didn't work. Because I was working, she was living with me and we got married at one point. But she was illegal in the UK. I hope they won't refuse her outright but they give a chance to explain. Sometimes they do it sometimes not.

[kamoe]

Thank you for that I never managed to find it.

Anytime. It's at the beginning of this thread, where you will also find general timeline info and q&as from others applying.

She already applied for BC a couple of months ago but I am not great believer in the outcome of that application. We just chanced it. She was an overstayer when we met and that was during the last 10 years

I can demonstrate she didn't work. Because I was working, she was living with me and we got married at one point. But she was illegal in the UK. I hope they won't refuse her outright but they give a chance to explain. Sometimes they do it sometimes not.

But of course. You have mentioned this difficulty in other posts. I see why you are hesitant and why this might not be straightforward. Best luck for you, and keep us posted, whatever happens.

[Zerubbabel]

Thank you! I will keep you posted. I have seen a few cases where the BC was granted despite years of undocumented residence within the last 10 years. These cases seem rare but we chanced it and we are hopping for the best.

For the records:



https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... 20the%20UK.

What's funny is that even after the Brexit, the Home Office kept delivering these cards with many years of validity. I have seen cards valid to 2028 and delivered well after the Brexit. They could've at least limited them to Dec 31, 2020 to avoid confusion.