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nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pmHi all, my visa got refused. I am a little shocked and very shattered.
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.
They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.
anyway, there is, of course, more case related info, if there
is more information, may be pertinent that you share such so that you can be guided accordingly. Sometimes stating the reasons as it is in the decision letter can give perspective on how to address same. But I want to know where to even begin to make my appeal.
Should I seek legal help? through immigration board or through workpermit.com can I get any directional help.
Can I get any admin help from somewhere? I don't where to begin, I have just received this news.
The threshold in determining the ones exceptional circumstances are excessively higher and totally discretional. You can read about it;nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pmHi all, my visa got refused. I am a little shocked and very shattered.
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.
They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.
anyway, there is, of course, more case related info, But I want to know where to even begin to make my appeal.
Should I seek legal help? through immigration board or through workpermit.com can I get any directional help.
Can I get any admin help from somewhere? I don't where to begin, I have just received this news.
AmazonianX wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 pmnevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pmHi all, my visa got refused. I am a little shocked and very shattered.
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
also on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.
They haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.
anyway, there is, of course, more case related info, if there
is more information, may be pertinent that you share such so that you can be guided accordingly. Sometimes stating the reasons as it is in the decision letter can give perspective on how to address same. But I want to know where to even begin to make my appeal.
Should I seek legal help? through immigration board or through workpermit.com can I get any directional help.
Can I get any admin help from somewhere? I don't where to begin, I have just received this news.
On the forum nobody can recommend about a particular one, however, you can search a suitable one from below link:nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:27 pm
Is there also a way of consulting someone or an organisation?
If its an independent lawyer I can afford limited fees.
if parents are 3rd party then I can easily produce an affidavit for financial support. Even if you discount their savings and wealth. The money I should under my name was more than enough to live in the UK for 4 yrs without work. it's just that the funds were 3/4 months under my name. By Nov they were all 6 months old.seagul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:13 pmOn the forum nobody can recommend about a particular one, however, you can search a suitable one from below link:nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:27 pm
Is there also a way of consulting someone or an organisation?
If its an independent lawyer I can afford limited fees.
https://www.gov.uk/find-an-immigration-adviser
Also see a resembling experience over third party support:
immigration-for-family-members/spouse-v ... 06802.html
nevilleturel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 amhi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.
And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... hin-the-ukHow to appeal
You have 14 days to appeal from the date the decision was sent.
If you apply after the deadline, you must explain why - the tribunal will decide if it can still hear your appeal.
Home Office appears to have a policy that says you, the applicant, must prove in the face of a very, very sceptical and negative institution, that you have this right. And, you can expect the Home Office to effectively answer in the negative wherever they can. The onus of proof lies solely with the applicant, I can understand your pain but it’s always good to ask someone if you have any doubts before applying.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 amhi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.
And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
Thank Seagul but i know this page on the website.seagul wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:24 amnevilleturel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 amhi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.
And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... hin-the-ukHow to appeal
You have 14 days to appeal from the date the decision was sent.
If you apply after the deadline, you must explain why - the tribunal will decide if it can still hear your appeal.
Thanks for pointing out this oversight. Actually the link was very next to the previous one. You must be given deadline on the letter but as per the below link that is 28 days after the date of decision.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:59 amThank Seagul but i know this page on the website.seagul wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:24 amnevilleturel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 amhi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.
And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-t ... hin-the-ukHow to appeal
You have 14 days to appeal from the date the decision was sent.
If you apply after the deadline, you must explain why - the tribunal will decide if it can still hear your appeal.
I am applying formn outside of UK.
"You have 28 days to appeal after you get your decision."
"get' = when i get the email for the decision or
= when i get the decision. decision date
That is probably for the better, as appeals are broader and can review more material when it comes to reviewing applications. On the other hand, an administrative review is only another civil servant in the Home Office reviewing whether the first civil servant decided the case according to the correct rules.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pmThey haven't even given me an option for administrative review, they just refused with the right to appeal.
To the best of my knowledge, you can submit further proof at appeal stage (which you can't if there were an admin review). But I am not a lawyer. Wait for others to advise you further.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:27 pmIf its an appeal can I submit more documentary evidence or do I have to appeal to the court to reconsider the visa decision based on the same evidence submited? basically, can I submit more documents?
The fact that your son and you have not lived together for seven years considerably weakens your case. In a sense, he is able to live a normal life (or as normal as possible under the circumstances) without you being with him. So, from a case worker point of view, there is no pressing need for you to be in the UK.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pmalso on human rights grounds, they dint consider my case or on the grounds of exceptional circumstances. Even though I and my son have not lived in the same country in the last 7 yrs.
I believe, 28 calendar days (4 weeks) from the date of the email notifying you of the decision.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:16 amhi had another question as well.
This 28 day period to appeal, when does it start from? from the date of the decision or from the date I received the information on the decision.
the decision was made on the 2nd Nov
but I received the email on the 10th of Nov informing me about it.
And are these 28 days calendar days or working days.
But as you have the time, I would suggest erring on the side of caution and filing within 28 days of the date of decision.Immigration Rules Appendix SN: Service of notices wrote: SN1.9 Where a notice is sent in accordance with paragraphs SN1.2 to SN1.4, it shall be deemed to have been given to the person affected, unless the contrary is proved:
(a) where the notice is sent by postal service:
...
(b) where the notice is sent by fax, e-mail, document exchange or courier, on the day it was sent.
If the applicant is in the UK. In this case, the applicant is abroad.
It is your responsibility to submit a complete application.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
The OP is making an application as a parent of a child resident in the UK, not as a partner. So, to the best of my knowledge, he needs to prove only "adequate maintenance" and does not need to maintain £62,500.
So be sure to calculate your savings and your income in line with the guidance linked to above before appealing.Financial support from a third party support cannot be counted, except where permitted under paragraph 1(b) of Appendix FM-SE (for example, a gift of cash savings which have now been held by the applicant/sponsor for at least 6 months by the date of application and are under their control; alimony or maintenance payments from a former partner; or an academic maintenance grant or stipend). Promises of support from a third party cannot be counted as they are vulnerable to a change in that person’s circumstances or in the applicant’s and/or sponsor’s relationship with them.
Ack! I don't know why I read partner and not parent...secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:12 pmThe OP is making an application as a parent of a child resident in the UK, not as a partner. So, to the best of my knowledge, he needs to prove only "adequate maintenance" and does not need to maintain £62,500.
However, there are rules about how "adequate maintenance" is calculated as regards savings.
To the OP; have you read the Home Office guidance on adequate maintenance and accommodation?
As an aside, on Page 15 of that guidance, it clearly states;So be sure to calculate your savings and your income in line with the guidance linked to above before appealing.Financial support from a third party support cannot be counted, except where permitted under paragraph 1(b) of Appendix FM-SE (for example, a gift of cash savings which have now been held by the applicant/sponsor for at least 6 months by the date of application and are under their control; alimony or maintenance payments from a former partner; or an academic maintenance grant or stipend). Promises of support from a third party cannot be counted as they are vulnerable to a change in that person’s circumstances or in the applicant’s and/or sponsor’s relationship with them.
the total investments in my name are 8000 pounds more than that amount (only in my name) not even counting my parent's investment. considering the exchange rate.ALKB wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:53 pmIt is your responsibility to submit a complete application.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
3rd party support is very rarely accepted and only in the most dire circumstances.
What do you mean by investments?
Any funds have to be liquid and in an approved bank on an account in your or your spouse's name for more than 6 months at the time of application. Any money that has been in the account for less than 6 months will be disregarded.
Are the accounts in £? If in any other currency, exchange rates may also fluctuate and bring down the value of what you have.
Do you have, in liquid funds, in an account under your or your spouses name at least £62500 held for at least six months, the amount never going below this figure?
If the applicant is in the UK. In this case, the applicant is abroad.
I don't think fixed deposits are regarded as liquid for immigration purposes, money would have to be in a current or savings account, but I'll let somebody else comment on this (you might want to do a 'fixed deposits' search on the forum, I think there have been numerous refusals).nevilleturel wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:50 amthe total investments in my name are 8000 pounds more than that amount (only in my name) not even counting my parent's investment. considering the exchange rate.ALKB wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:53 pmIt is your responsibility to submit a complete application.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:23 pm
the grounds for refusal were not sufficient to finance. But that's just because they didn't consider my parent's investments and most of mine investments at the time of application were 3/4 months old so they dint get considered. 90% of my financial investments were not considered so no wonder I get refused.
3rd party support is very rarely accepted and only in the most dire circumstances.
What do you mean by investments?
Any funds have to be liquid and in an approved bank on an account in your or your spouse's name for more than 6 months at the time of application. Any money that has been in the account for less than 6 months will be disregarded.
Are the accounts in £? If in any other currency, exchange rates may also fluctuate and bring down the value of what you have.
Do you have, in liquid funds, in an account under your or your spouses name at least £62500 held for at least six months, the amount never going below this figure?
investments are in Fixed Deposits = Smi liquid investment. potentially as liquid as a savings bank account. A small part of that is Provident fund (again semi-liquid) and insurance policy as an icing on the cake. but around 70/80 % in FDs. all of the funds become 6 months old in Dec. this six months rule only came in case people/agents in India were temporarily transferring funds in applicant accounts. morons ruined it for everyone.
Hou do you arrive at this figure of 62500 GBP (what is the logic behind it?)
This was requested of him before.ALKB wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:20 pmAck! I don't know why I read partner and not parent...secret.simon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:12 pmThe OP is making an application as a parent of a child resident in the UK, not as a partner. So, to the best of my knowledge, he needs to prove only "adequate maintenance" and does not need to maintain £62,500.
However, there are rules about how "adequate maintenance" is calculated as regards savings.
To the OP; have you read the Home Office guidance on adequate maintenance and accommodation?
As an aside, on Page 15 of that guidance, it clearly states;So be sure to calculate your savings and your income in line with the guidance linked to above before appealing.Financial support from a third party support cannot be counted, except where permitted under paragraph 1(b) of Appendix FM-SE (for example, a gift of cash savings which have now been held by the applicant/sponsor for at least 6 months by the date of application and are under their control; alimony or maintenance payments from a former partner; or an academic maintenance grant or stipend). Promises of support from a third party cannot be counted as they are vulnerable to a change in that person’s circumstances or in the applicant’s and/or sponsor’s relationship with them.
Savings still need to be instantly available liquid funds and the usage of the word 'investment' is somewhat worrisome.
OP, could you maybe post the wording of the refusal reasons, omitting any personal information?
No one would hold such a large amount in savings/current account in India unless you are a millionaire. company owners, celebrities and CEO keep such large amounts in a savings account as liquid cash.ALKB wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:14 pmI don't think fixed deposits are regarded as liquid for immigration purposes, money would have to be in a current or savings account, but I'll let somebody else comment on this (you might want to do a 'fixed deposits' search on the forum, I think there have been numerous refusals).
You really should calm down. Having funds in a liquid form/easily accessible is a standard immigration requirement, not just in the UK, but also in other western countries.nevilleturel wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:15 pmNo one would hold such a large amount in savings/current account in India unless you are a millionaire. company owners, celebrities and CEO keep such large amounts in a savings account as liquid cash.
I am not that rich. I hope the visa office has this much of a pea brain to consider this. or else it's really stupid.
it takes seconds to break and transfer an FD into your bank account when needed or if needed.
You should consider this alternative. There are many British citizens who move to India immediately after acquiring British citizenship. Your son will retain his British citizenship no matter how long he resides outside the UK.
My son is British, he is not Indian. I know what you mean. but I can't come and go to the UK as I want or live there close to him. the thing is a system cannot be designed that separates legitimate families. there is no rational. if that is the case then don't allow inter nationality marriages with UK nationals at all. because it does not make sense, you allow us to marry then split the family! the rules are such that maybe 30/40% of applicants get the visa, what about the rest of us who are just as legitimate.secret.simon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:27 pm
Your immigration applications are assessed by people in the UK using their expectations of life here. They will not be judging the application using your expectation of life in India. It may be worth explaining to them in a cover letter why you have structured your finances in a particular order, etc.
But keep in mind that they will follow the guidance on how to calculate adequate maintenance that I linked to in an earlier post. So do go through that guidance before appealing.
I am acutely aware of this. But if there is an elephant in the room it's better to say "elephant' than to be pragmatic about everything down to every molecule. In the hope that even if 50% of the people start screming elephant then they start getting the elephant out.
totally understand what you saying though. Don't let my passion distract you from how focused I am.
that's a good point to justify and explain every aspect. maticuliously.
You should consider this alternative. There are many British citizens who move to India immediately after acquiring British citizenship. Your son will retain his British citizenship no matter how long he resides outside the UK.