Naturalisation - Good Character Requirement

benz52 · Post by **benz52** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:45 am

Hello again,

I am planning to apply for naturalisation at the middle of next year and have a few doubts & questions about my application.

I have 3 criminal convictions, DR10, LC20 & IN10 which will be 4 years old when I apply. It is quite a regret that I have these and other than DR10 (which was quite naive of me then), my LC20 and IN10 have been acquired due to a great deal of confusion about an international licence. Despite having insurance, it was invalidated due to a misconception about the validity of my overseas international driving permit. Hence, 2 more convictions.

I have read the case workers manual about drink driving & invalid insurances which say that the application should normally be refused. Has anyone applied with similar convictions and can share their experience with me? These convictions will be spent a year after the aforesaid date, but I would like to know your experiences.

I have made 2 successful applications even after these 2 convictions - one after 4 years & one for ILR this year.

My spouse & 3 kids will be applying with me.

All advice & suggestions will be appreciated.

benz52 · Post by **benz52** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:38 pm

anyone out there with some advice?

sonnyblack112 · Post by **sonnyblack112** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:23 pm

in same position as you! got an IN10 a month before could apply for Naturalisation without knowing it was such a a serious matter. Waiting till i get proper advice on what to do. How about yourself? Soz I cdnt help.

Post by **JAJ** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:39 am

When will the convictions be "spent"? And what are they for?

sonnyblack112 · Post by **sonnyblack112** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:26 pm

will become spent in sep 2012. conviction was for driving without insurance however id never been to court for it. just got a fixed penalty notice at the roadside and paid the fine. does it matter if iv never physically been to court for it?

Ere · Post by **Ere** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:08 pm

Can someone really shed some light on this grey area please.

I have LC20 (for driving on International licence after 1yr, paid fine and points added, with no court) and will qualify for Naturalisation very soon and I'm concerned about this.

On the guidance for the naturalisation form , it says

We will normally disregard a single conviction for a minor offence resulting in a bind over, conditional discharge or relatively small fine or compensation order, if a person is suitable for citizenship in all other respects. By â€œminor offencesâ€

sonnyblack112 · Post by **sonnyblack112** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:01 pm

Ere,
apparently whether they hold it against you depends on how big your fine was, whether your conviction has become "spent" and whether or not you went to court for it i believe. On the website the HO do say theres no need to disclose FIXED PENALTY OFFENCES which alot of convictions fall under >>Not entirely sure if yours was ..but like you i qualify for Naturalisation as well however i too received a "conviction" for driving without valid insurance (IN10) but that was issued through a Fixed Penalty..so im still unsure whether it means i have to wait until it becomes spent in 2012. I think yours isnt a major offence unlike mine so you might be in with a chance.

Ere · Post by **Ere** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:07 pm

sonnyblack112.... Thanks for your comments.....
I was randomly stopped by a police guy who requested to see licence + paperwork...I didn't know the rules and thought I was perfectly Ok...so I gave him all the paperwork.

Anyway, the guy said the Int'l License is invalid ...and like a joke issued 3pts and 60pounds for it....and ask me to take everything to a local station. I didn't go to court, the conviction has not become "spent"...
I will really appreciate further clarifications...and all the gurus in the house, pls shed some light on this . Thanks.

paulp · Post by **paulp** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:56 pm

I think it's pretty clear from the guidance on the naturalisation form. Driving while uninsured or disqualified is not a minor offence, so will weigh negatively against your character. You can use proof of community service or helping out in the community to tip the balance the other way.

Ere · Post by **Ere** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:21 am

Thanks Paul,

I had a valid insurance and was not disqualified...and for me, it was a genuine lack of awareness of the rules at that time.

Will a letter from a local church (yes, I have actively participated on a number of activities locally..) and letter from employer (still have my reputation with them intact...I think !) be sufficient to persuade them ??.

This is begining to sound very serious and I need all the contributions from all

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:37 am

Ere wrote:Thanks Paul,

I had a valid insurance and was not disqualified...and for me, it was a genuine lack of awareness of the rules at that time.

Will a letter from a local church (yes, I have actively participated on a number of activities locally..) and letter from employer (still have my reputation with them intact...I think !) be sufficient to persuade them ??.

This is begining to sound very serious and I need all the contributions from all

If you had no valid licence your insurance was automatically invalidated too. Also it's up to you to be sure you are complying with the terms of the law, ignorance is no defence.

AlexCh · Post by **AlexCh** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:50 am

I am completely confused - does that mean that you can get conviction without even being called to court??? I thought you at least needed a judge to be convicted?

Ere · Post by **Ere** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:14 pm

Thanks guys .....I'm still confused as well.

Any REAL practical experience of this ?

Please keep them coming.....

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:35 pm

AlexCh wrote:I am completely confused - does that mean that you can get conviction without even being called to court??? I thought you at least needed a judge to be convicted?

You can't be convicted without going to court, can you? As I understand it, the good character requirement relating to offences is talking about convictions, although not all convictions will result in imprisonment or a fine, and some will not result in any penalty. Regarding driving offences, drink-driving offences and driving while uninsured or disqualified are not minor offences. If the only penalty was disqualification from driving, the offence becomes spent when the disqualification period ends, I think. Any offence for which you may go to court (or for which you will be going to court) needs to be declared too, unless the charge has been dropped or you have been told that there will be no court hearing.

republique · Post by **republique** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:45 pm

AlexCh wrote:I am completely confused - does that mean that you can get conviction without even being called to court??? I thought you at least needed a judge to be convicted?

Yes if they tried to reach you at an address you were registered at and you mysteriously weren't available to receive your notification. They can construct that you had notice and failed to attend court and proceeded without you.

paulp · Post by **paulp** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:44 pm

Sorry, I re-read the AN guide and it's been through a few changes since I last saw it. By paying the fixed penalty, you've discharged any liability to conviction for the offence and thus it needs not be declared.

Anybody, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

sonnyblack112 · Post by **sonnyblack112** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:13 am

You're correct indeed Paulp, i qualified to apply for Naturalisation a while ago but hesitated purely because i had this "conviction" against me, so was contemplating all sorts of tacticts to prove my good character despite receiving the fine and points. However a very long phone call to the HO this morning, after speaking to one person, ..who then had to speak to another person and getting put on hold so they had to confirm with someone else >>>>It seems to be that if you got a conviction which was FIXED PENALTY i.e>>NO COURT. you DO NOT HAVE to declare it as it does not affect you application EVEN THOUGH the offence is driving without insurance.
I may not have to deal with that pesky 5 year rehabilitation after all!

Is it common policy to issue Fixed Penalties for no insurance or is the court system a more widely used avenue to prosecute offenders???? Anyone with the experience or heard of such???

Post by **JAJ** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:23 am

Fixed penalty speeding tickets that do not go to court are not considered criminal convictions.

Have you not thought about getting a Subject Access report from the police?

Ere · Post by **Ere** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:27 pm

I contacted the HO about this and can confirm that ..If you have a fixed penalty against your driving licence this should not affect your application. It is only court given fines that require you to wait a minimum of five years before applying.

Hope this helps someone..

sonnyblack112 · Post by **sonnyblack112** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:35 pm

..yeah sure does help me!!

, looks like id been worrying over nothing. lets hope nothing else gets in the way

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Naturalisation - Good Character Requirement

Naturalisation - Good Character Requirement