- FAQ
- Login
- Register
- Call Workpermit.com for a paid service +44 (0)344-991-9222
ESC
Welcome to immigrationboards.com!
Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
5.1 One referee should be a person of any nationality who has professional standing, eg
doctor, minister of religion, civil servant, or a member of a professional body e.g. accountant
or solicitor (who is not representing you with this application).
The other referee must be the
holder of a British citizen passport and either a professional person or over the age of 25.
Both should declare that:-
• they are not a relative, solicitor or agent of the applicant, or related to the other referee;
• they are not employed by the Home Office;
• they have not been convicted of an imprisonable offence during the last 10 years (unless the conviction has
become spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974);
• they have known the applicant personally for more than 3 years;
• they are willing to give full details of their knowledge of the applicant;
• they will advise the Home Office of any reason why the applicant should not be naturalised.
I thought to be a "Engineer (with professional qualifications)" you have to be a member of a professional body like Engineering Council (CEng) or similar rather than just have an university degree.vasa wrote:I must admit that on a first look list of accepted professional referees sounds confusing. I just spoke to HO about referee of type "Engineer (with professional qualifications)" and lady on the other side of the line wasn't even sure what that actually meant. She eventually managed to say that anyone who got a university degree related to the profession they do should be fine.
vasa wrote:I must admit that on a first look list of accepted professional referees sounds confusing. I just spoke to HO about referee of type "Engineer (with professional qualifications)" and lady on the other side of the line wasn't even sure what that actually meant. She eventually managed to say that anyone who got a university degree related to the profession they do should be fine.
I wonder why any doctor would refuse to do that for a patient. Does said medic believe he is being asked to give you a character reference?pksachdeva wrote:Please suggest as according to guidelines it should be a doctor and my GP surgery says that they do not certfiy the application relating to home office .
But he is being asked to give the equivalent of a character reference - "they have known the applicant personally for more than 3 years" and "they are willing to give full details of their knowledge of the applicant".JAJ wrote:I wonder why any doctor would refuse to do that for a patient. Does said medic believe he is being asked to give you a character reference?pksachdeva wrote:Please suggest as according to guidelines it should be a doctor and my GP surgery says that they do not certfiy the application relating to home office .
Or is it symptomatic of a generally bad attitude in society where people do their jobs and nothing more?
I think it's part of a trend among doctors not to get involved in extra-medical activities for their patients, or to make a charge when they absolutely have to. Examples are things such as letters of reference, insurance forms, and letters explaining medical reasons for absence from work when such a letter is required by the company or a medical insurer but not by the law of the land. When it is difficult to refuse such things, a charge is usually made. This is obviously reasonable when a lot of time is needed (as in an insurance report, for example).JAJ wrote:I wonder why any doctor would refuse to do that for a patient. Does said medic believe he is being asked to give you a character reference?
Or is it symptomatic of a generally bad attitude in society where people do their jobs and nothing more?
When I asked my doctor to confirm my presence in the UK based on my appts, he refused stating they don't do that. So in general, I don't think doctors want to get involved in anything outside their domain.JAJ wrote:I wonder why any doctor would refuse to do that for a patient. Does said medic believe he is being asked to give you a character reference?pksachdeva wrote:Please suggest as according to guidelines it should be a doctor and my GP surgery says that they do not certfiy the application relating to home office .
Or is it symptomatic of a generally bad attitude in society where people do their jobs and nothing more?
The list of acceptable professional persons already covers quite a range of different type of professions including IT professionals (who are members of the British Computer Society) and company directors.global gypsy wrote:I feel this requirement to allow only certain professionals to serve as referees is quite an outdated one. It's possible this was relevant years ago when people went to church every Sunday (priests/ministers), went to their local and met with their manager personally on a regular basis (Bank managers), made regular visits to their GP (Physician), said hello to the local police chief (Police), etc etc. In today's world of ATMs, increasing number of non-religious people, medical centers, etc. restricting referees to just such professions is not relevant any more. They should expand the list to a larger number of professions, e.g. IT managers, Company executives etc.
It's not outdated. It's probably that these people can be easily traced and brought in for questioning were something dodgy to happen.global gypsy wrote:I feel this requirement to allow only certain professionals to serve as referees is quite an outdated one. It's possible this was relevant years ago when people went to church every Sunday (priests/ministers), went to their local and met with their manager personally on a regular basis (Bank managers), made regular visits to their GP (Physician), said hello to the local police chief (Police), etc etc. In today's world of ATMs, increasing number of non-religious people, medical centers, etc. restricting referees to just such professions is not relevant any more. They should expand the list to a larger number of professions, e.g. IT managers, Company executives etc.
Working in the medical profession, I magine it's simply a case of not knowing what is involved. The signing of the form only takes a minute or two, but I would want to know what I'm actually signing. If I was a GP, and the person asking me for a reference had been registered at my surgery for 5 years, but I'd never actually laid eyes on them (due to their fortunate good health), would it be entirely appropriate to sign a form as a referee?Christophe wrote:JAJ wrote:I think it's part of a trend among doctors not to get involved in extra-medical activities for their patients, or to make a charge when they absolutely have to. Examples are things such as letters of reference, insurance forms, and letters explaining medical reasons for absence from work when such a letter is required by the company or a medical insurer but not by the law of the land. When it is difficult to refuse such things, a charge is usually made. This is obviously reasonable when a lot of time is needed (as in an insurance report, for example).pksachdeva wrote:I wonder why any doctor would refuse to do that for a patient. Does said medic believe he is being asked to give you a character reference?
Or is it symptomatic of a generally bad attitude in society where people do their jobs and nothing more?
I agree that given countersigning a naturalisation application takes only a couple of minutes it seems a bit churlish not to do so — although is a countersignatory not saying that he or she supports the person's application for naturalisation (as opposed to someone countersigning a passport application, who is merely confirming identity)? Perhaps the doctor feels unable to make that assessment?
On a more general point, it does seem that applicants for naturalisation who don't happen to mix socially in "professional circles" and don't perhaps have children of school age do quite often have trouble finding acceptable sponsors. I wonder if the Home Office is aware that this can be a real problem...
No, not if they've known you for only 6 months. But "knowing you personally for at least three years" doesn't mean that the person has to be in frequent contact with you now — just because you've moved away from the part of the country you've lived in before doesn't mean that the people you know from living there have stopped knowing you (if that makes sense...).Miami wrote:I am just about to apply for naturalisation but as I have just started a new job in a different part of the country. I am slightly concerned about who could act as my referees:
"The referees should have known you personally for at least three years."
Could my current GP and/or boss act as my referees; they've known me for only 6 months?
drjabberwocky23 wrote:Working in the medical profession, I magine it's simply a case of not knowing what is involved. The signing of the form only takes a minute or two, but I would want to know what I'm actually signing.
No you misunderstand. I asked him to be a referee, as he could establish he knew me for 3 years based on my record of appts. I am saying that referees collaterally establishes your presence in the UK as well primarily your good character so to speak.Marco 72 wrote:That's something different from acting as a referee.republique wrote:When I asked my doctor to confirm my presence in the UK based on my appts, he refused stating they don't do that. So in general, I don't think doctors want to get involved in anything outside their domain.
Referees are not required to say anything about the applicant's presence in the UK during the qualifying period. All they have to do is confirm your identity, that the details on page 4 are correct (to the best of their knowledge) and that they have no convictions. That's it. When I applied for naturalisation my referees were people I hadn't seen in years, who had no idea where I had been living in the meantime.republique wrote:No you misunderstand. I asked him to be a referee, as he could establish he knew me for 3 years based on my record of appts. I am saying that referees collaterally establishes your presence in the UK as well primarily your good character so to speak.