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EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2

SHM201
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EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:00 pm

Hi,
My brother has applied for an EEA family permit as a dependent extended family member of myself.

- Applicant: My brother (non-EEA passport)
- Sponsor/EEA Family member: Myself (EU national, Pre-settled status in the UK)

- Biometrics date: 20th Nov, 2020
- Acknowledgement UK: 26th Nov, 2020
- Decision taken: 14th Dec, 2020 (on this date upon request through paid email I was informed decision is taken and my brother will be contacted).
- Passport: Since then no news about passport. I have complained, sent email to MP... still no movement.

Question:
1. If my brother only get a passport after 31st DEC, 2020. Can my brother still apply for a pre-settled status?
2. what is the criteria for it?

Thanks for guiding.
BR,
Shm

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by White_Pearl » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:11 pm

Yes, he can apply uptill 30th June 2021

SHM201
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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:28 pm

I do not think your answer is correct because of this:

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-ci ... ss-citizen

If you’re overseas and a family member of an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen living in the UK
The deadline for you to join your family member in the UK is 31 December 2020 (or 31 December 2025 if your partner is Swiss and you get married or form a civil partnership after 31 December 2020).

If you’re not living in the UK by the deadline, you’ll still be able to apply if all of the following are true:

your family member has either settled or pre-settled status
your relationship began before 31 December 2020
you remain a close family member, for example a spouse, civil partner, unmarried partner, a dependent child or grandchild, or a dependent parent or grandparent

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by White_Pearl » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:12 am

If you already know the answer why are you asking then?

The answers of your questions you can find in the thread of Zenfold where Kamoe has explained it word by word, 4 times the same...!!!!

And why are you looking at the surender singh route, being a eu citizen with pre-settled status in UK? And the application is for your non eu brother to the UK (eea permit) so where does the surender singh route comes from? That doesn’t apply to you unless you have provided in your question incorrect info.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by White_Pearl » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:14 am

White_Pearl wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:12 am
If you already know the answer why are you asking then?

The answers of your questions you can find in the thread of Zenfold where Kamoe has explained it word by word, 4 times the same...!!!!

And why are you looking at the surender singh route, being a eu citizen with pre-settled status in UK? And the application is for your non eu brother to the UK (eea permit) so where does the surender singh route comes from? That doesn’t apply to you unless you have provided in your question incorrect info.
I referred to this post:

eea-route-applications/eu-settlement-sc ... 10126.html

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by kamoe » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:00 am

As long as he's issued a family permit he'll be treated as close family member.

There is a provision to treat people that sucessfully apply for EEA permits before Dec 31st and get them after Dec 31st as if these had been issued just before Dec 31st.

This site automatically converts the acronym "S S" into Surinder Singh even if quoting links. The OP just quoted a link that refeed to Settled Status with said acronym.
My posts express what I believe are the facts, based on the best of my knowledge, about the topics discussed in this forum. They do not constitute immigration advice.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by White_Pearl » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:43 am

My sincere apologies on commenting regarding surrender singh....

Good luck

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:45 pm

I am asking the question because there maybe another view which I am not aware of and that can help.

Sorry I have not understood it clearly what you mean with mix up of surinder singh...

The reason I am asking this question is that everywhere I have read, it only says after 31st DEC; only close family will be allowed to apply and get a pre-settled status.

- Extended family members are not part of that. Could you please share with me where have you read that extended family members will be considered as close family members for pre-settled status after coming to UK after 31st DEC? that will be actually helpful

many thanks

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by kamoe » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:41 pm

SHM201 wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:45 pm
The reason I am asking this question is that everywhere I have read, it only says after 31st DEC; only close family will be allowed to apply and get a pre-settled status.

- Extended family members are not part of that. Could you please share with me where have you read that extended family members will be considered as close family members for pre-settled status after coming to UK after 31st DEC? that will be actually helpful
I have noticed there are two or three different ways of finding answers regarding immigration routes in the UK:

1. Application / instruction pages where the application process is explained, e.g. The EU Settlement Scheme page
2. Caseworker guidances, e.g. The EU Settlement Scheme caseworker guidance
3. Actual legal texts, e.g. The Immigration Rules, the Withdrawal agreement, and relevant annexes

Source No. 1. Application / instruction pages

I have noticed that the language used in The EU settlement Scheme page is sometimes oversimplified, I suppose in an attempt to explain at a glance how the system works and how it applies to most people. This might work for some applicants, but for many others, who have specific circumstances, the information presented ends up being misleading because crucial details have been left out, and things have been assumed about the applicant.

If you take a closer look, the EU Settlement Scheme page's third condition to be able to enter the UK after Dec 31st is to "remain a close family member"... yet the term "close family member" is never defined. In the general conditions for family members there is never a differentiation between spouses, children, parents, and other dependent relatives; they are all listed as qualifying items in the same list. This will give you a hint that someone has been summarising and that you need to look further.

So... by all means read these pages but it might be a good call not to dwell too much on their literal meaning. Try to verify your understanding using thew other two sources available.

Source No. 2. Legal texts


Now, to the meat of the answer:

Within the EEA regulations, regulation 7 establishes that:
A person (“B”) who is an extended family member and has been issued with an EEA family permit, a registration certificate or a residence card must be treated as a family member of A, provided—

(a)B continues to satisfy the conditions in regulation 8(2), (3), (4) or (5); and
(b)the EEA family permit, registration certificate or residence card remains in force.
In other words, extended family members of EEA national who have been issued a EEA document must be treated as family members as long as they continue to meet the conditions they met when issued the relevant document, and that document is valid.

Furthermore, in a recent post @wochee pointed to the recent Citizens' Rights (Application Deadline and Temporary Protection) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020 (Statutory Instrument 1209), where it is stated that:
(4) The enactments specified in regulation 12 apply in relation to a relevant person during the grace period with the modifications specified in that regulation.
Regulation 12 being the document that sets out the rules concerning issuing of EEA FPs. And "relevant person", as defined in the statutory Instrument 1209 mentioned above, includes extended family members with EEA FPs (have provided links for you to check, would bee too long to quote here).

In other words, as per Statutory Instrument 1209 the operation of EEA FPs appears to continue until the end of the grace period, June 30th 2021. This suggests new EEA FPs will continue to be issued, and non-EU nationals coming on recently issued EEA FPs will continue to be admitted in the UK after December 31st 2020.

Source No.3 Caseworker guidance

Now, the best way to predict wether an application is going to be refused, be granted Pre-Settled, or Settled status, is to check the EU Settlement Scheme Caseworker Guidance. You'll see that there is no mention of selective acceptance or refusal based on date of entry into the UK. If you read carefully the section for "Dependent relative" on page 61, you'll also see there is no mention of dates. There is however mention of the requirement to hold a "relevant document" (a EEA-issued document). This is really what makes the applications selective, and ensures this is closed for extended family members not having applied for a EEA document in 2020.
My posts express what I believe are the facts, based on the best of my knowledge, about the topics discussed in this forum. They do not constitute immigration advice.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:09 pm

Thanks A lot Kamoe.

I really appreciate your well detailed responce.
I will go through the details of docs you mentioned.

Thanks a lot and Merry Xmas.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:30 pm

I have 2 related questions:

1. Can a financially dependent extended family member (my brother in this case), after getting a pre-settled and started working in the UK:
a. Can he invite his family members with his pre-settled status? (wife and 2 kids (7/8yrs old))
b. Can he start living on his own with his family as an independent person?

2. Can he after 5yrs of stay in the UK apply for settled status?
a. Does he need to be still dependent on me after 5yrs to enable himself to apply for a settled status?
b. Does he need to be still living with me at the same address to enable himself to apply for a settled status?

Thanks a lot for guidance.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by kamoe » Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:48 pm

SHM201 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:30 pm
a. Can he invite his family members with his pre-settled status? (wife and 2 kids (7/8yrs old))
No.

Only EU nationals can sponsor family members in the Settlement Scheme. He'll be able to sponsor his own family when he is issued Settled Status, in 5 years' time, as a settled person, under UK rules and outside of the Settlement Scheme. Via the family member route (open to all nationalities, more expensive, more restrictive).
b. Can he start living on his own with his family as an independent person?
No point in addressing since the answer to the above is no.
2. Can he after 5yrs of stay in the UK apply for settled status?
Yes.
a. Does he need to be still dependent on me after 5yrs to enable himself to apply for a settled status?
No.

You'll find this spelled out in the EU Caseworker guidance, page 63, "Family members who hold pre-settled status based on
dependency":
Family members who hold pre-settled status based on dependency
Rule EU4 of Appendix EU provides, in part, that where a person has been granted pre-settled status (limited leave to enter or remain under Appendix EU) as a child, dependent parent or dependent relative, they do not need to continue to meet the eligibility requirements for that leave which they met at the date of application where these related to their dependency, in order to retain their leave and remain eligible in due course for indefinite leave to enter or remain, where they apply on the basis of the same family relationship.
Then,
b. Does he need to be still living with me at the same address to enable himself to apply for a settled status?
This one is a wild guess, since I have not seen this spelled out anywhere, and judging by the fact that if you allow an adult to be financially independent, surely that means they are allowed to live independently.
My posts express what I believe are the facts, based on the best of my knowledge, about the topics discussed in this forum. They do not constitute immigration advice.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:10 pm

Thanks a lot. Much appreciated.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:38 pm

Hi,

I was informed decision was taken on 14 DEC.

First escalation was on 17th DEC. after reminding them after 15 working days.
They escalated again 2nd time on 13/01/2021...

Is it normal to see so long delays after they inform us that decision is taken? or were they just making up that the decision was taken by 14th DEC?

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by Sajid29 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:10 pm

SHM201 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:38 pm
Hi,

I was informed decision was taken on 14 DEC.

First escalation was on 17th DEC. after reminding them after 15 working days.
They escalated again 2nd time on 13/01/2021...

Is it normal to see so long delays after they inform us that decision is taken? or were they just making up that the decision was taken by 14th DEC?
Same bio was 20 Nov . Decision made 11 December, Liverpool Sitel email 6 January , paid call yesterday, saying no staus on the system ...

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:17 pm

Hi Sajid,
Today My brother got the same response. following is their response. What's your take on such responses.
FYI.

- 14th DEC: they told us the decision is made through a paid service UKVI.
- 17th DEC: 1st escalation, 15 days wait time... but we got no news
- 13th JAN: upon request to get the response they escalated again, 15 days wait time.
- 18th JAN: formal complaint
- 27th JAN: MP contacted
- 30th JAN: the following email from Liverpool International SITEL LiverpoolInternationalSitel@homeoffice.gov.uk



Hello,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding your Family Permit application.

We apologise for the delay with your application. A decision has been made and the Visa Application Centre will be in touch with regards to the return of your documents.

If you have any other enquiries please do not respond to this email as this mailbox is for internal use only, please contact UKVI using the details on gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/contact-ukvi-inside-outside-uk

We hope this resolves your query.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:36 pm

A friend of mine applied for his brother for extended family member.
on 1st FEB, He got the same reply from Liverpool international Sitel that, please wait for the documents as mentioned above highlighted in yellow.

However, He had already received a rejection already on 29th DEC.
so I assume an email from Liverpool international Sitel that tells us to wait for documents. Doesnt necessarily mean that the visa is granted...

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by Zaki12 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:52 pm

Have you guys contacted your local MP?

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:02 pm

yes already did that too.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by Zaki12 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:26 pm

What did they say?

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:27 pm

it takes around 20 WDs to get a response from them.

Strange. if they just tell UKVI the status they can avoid a lot of traffic asking them unnecessary questions.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by Zaki12 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:15 pm

It's such a same that this is taking so long. If the decision has been made then they should return the passport asap, especially when you have escalated this twice and also made a complaint. Sometimes it makes me think whether they are telling the truth or not. Also, I think that they are not giving priority to extended family member of EEA national. When did your brother had his biometric?

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by Obie » Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:56 am

kamoe wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:48 pm
SHM201 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:30 pm
a. Can he invite his family members with his pre-settled status? (wife and 2 kids (7/8yrs old))
This one is a wild guess, since I have not seen this spelled out anywhere, and judging by the fact that if you allow an adult to be financially independent, surely that means they are allowed to live independently.
I believe I should try and clarify this in the hope that it may help others.

Under the treaty, dependants and members of the household retain their rights on 2 conditions.

1.The had residence card issued to them before transition period ends or have applied before it ended.

2. They contiune to remain in the UK.

If those 2 conditions are met, then they are able to retain their rights exclusively on an independent basis.

They do not need to live with sponsor as they will retain their rights.

The UK requires them to show they are dependent at time of application, but that is not consistent and may be challenged in court.

The government is silent on continued membership of EU citizen household, but for the reasons given, they cannot lawfully impose such condition.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:06 pm

SHM201 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:17 pm
Hi Sajid,
Today My brother got the same response. following is their response. What's your take on such responses.
FYI.

- 14th DEC: they told us the decision is made through a paid service UKVI.
- 17th DEC: 1st escalation, 15 days wait time... but we got no news
- 13th JAN: upon request to get the response they escalated again, 15 days wait time.
- 18th JAN: formal complaint
- 27th JAN: MP contacted
- 30th JAN: the following email from Liverpool International SITEL LiverpoolInternationalSitel@homeoffice.gov.uk



Hello,
Thank you for your enquiry regarding your Family Permit application.

We apologise for the delay with your application. A decision has been made and the Visa Application Centre will be in touch with regards to the return of your documents.

If you have any other enquiries please do not respond to this email as this mailbox is for internal use only, please contact UKVI using the details on gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/contact-ukvi-inside-outside-uk

We hope this resolves your query.

I have received a response today and it is a refusal sadly.

1. You state that the sponsor is your brother and as evidence of your relationship you
have supplied your birth certificate along with your sponsors. It is noted that both of
these birth certificates have been registered over 30 years after your births. You have
supplied no information as to why this is. Without further historical documentation or
evidence of your relationship to the sponsor I am unable to accept that you are related
as claimed.

The documents I provided for this were:
a. My ID card (fathers name is printed)
b. My brothers ID card (fathers name is printed)
c. Family registration certificate: this certificate is shows all members of family and their names/ID card numbers
d. Birth Certificate of my self: In Pakistan, official documentation is a mess. This is why I had to get a new certificate because i had left Pakistan 16yrs ago. so the Birth certificate was newly issued.
e. Birth Certificate of my brother


What I plan to do is: Get a DNA test.

Could somebody suggest please what is the best way to prove a relationship legally accepted in the UK? and if DNA test, is there a specific DNA test.

2. On your application you state that your sponsor has resided in the UK since 2017 and
that you are financially dependent on him. As evidence of this, you have provided money
transfer remittance receipts from your sponsor to you, however, it is noted that these
transfers are dated immediately prior to your application (within the last twelve months).
Unfortunately, this limited amount of evidence in isolation does not prove that you are
financially dependent on your sponsor. I would expect to see substantial evidence of
this over a prolonged period, considering the length of time your sponsor has been
resident in the United Kingdom.

I have shown 1.5yrs of transactions amounting to 750GBP a month on average
I don't have any other document on my brother's name as I was sending this money to my mother for my brother because she could collect from Bank in cash while the brother was working. At that time it was easier that way

Could somebody suggest to me what to do in this case? 1.5yrs of proof isn't enough for them?

3. I would also expect to see evidence which fully details yours and your family’s
circumstances. Your income, expenditure and evidence of your financial position which
would prove that without the financial support of your sponsor your essential living
needs could not be met.

I have shown major expenses of my brother especially driven by 2x special needs kids.

Could somebody suggest to me what to do in this case? 1.5yrs of proof isn't enough for them?

I therefore refuse your EEA Family Permit application because I am not satisfied that
you meet all of the requirements of regulation 12 (see ECGs EUN2.23) of the
Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2016.

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Re: EEA Family Permit - Extended Family member - Presettled Status after coming to UK after 31st DEC, 2020

Post by SHM201 » Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:34 pm

Any help :)?

Locked