Large number of 'sham marriages' uncovered

[MAKUSA]

The Department of Justice believes it has uncovered a large number of 'sham marriages' between Latvians living in Ireland and people from the indian subcontinent.

The Government has alerted the Latvian authorities to the statistically abnormal number of marriages that would allow non-EU nationals to sidestep immigration laws.

The Department has given figures to its European counterparts that show 4,600 non-EU nationals may have married non-Irish EU citizens in order to exploit a loophole in an EU directive on the free movement of people.

AdvertisementSome 30% of the residency applicants were either failed asylum seekers or students who had outstayed their visas.

In 2006 Ireland implemented an EU directive enshrining the right of EU citizens to move and work freely throughout Europe.

The Government at the time understood that its own rules on whether non-European spouses of an EU citizen could also avail of that right were implicit in the directive.

However, when four asylum seekers who had married non-Irish EU citizens in Ireland took their case against deportation to the European Court of Justice the Court found that they were entitled to avail of the freedom of movement directive.

To Ireland, Denmark and a number of other countries, the so called Metock Case effectively allowed non-EU nationals to sidestep immigration law, simply by marrying non-Irish EU citizens - mostly people from Eastern Europe.

Since the July ruling the Government has been working with an EU panel exploring the fallout from the Metock case.

RTÉ News has obtained figures given to the panel on so called sham marriages.

- 4,600 non-EU nationals have applied for residence in Ireland - because they had married EU citizens - since the directive was introduced

- 30% of these were either failed asylum seekers or students who had outstayed their visas

- 10% of the EU spouses were Latvians

- 50% of the Latvians had married Pakistanis, Indians or Bangladeshis compared to only 39% who married non-EU citizens closer to home (Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians, etc).

The Government says these marriages are statistically abnormal and cannot have arisen by chance.

At a meeting of EU Justice ministers in Brussels today Irish officials joined Denmark, Germany, Austria, the UK, the Czech Republic and Cyprus in calling for the Directive to be ammended to prevent what the Government feels is its exploitation by illegal immigrants.

Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern was unable to attend because of the pairing row with Fine Gael.

The Government has raised with the Latvian government the allegedly exaggerated numbers of Latvians marrying Pakistanis and other nationalities from the subcontinent.

At today's meeting there were reservations from other member states about opening up and ammending the directive.

Denmark, which led calls for the directive to be changed, was supported by Ireland, Austria, the Czech Republic, Germany, Britain and Cyprus.

When it was first adopted in 2004 the Government believed that its own rules - that a non-EU national would have to be resident in another EU member state before they could enjoy the entitlements of the freedom of movement directive - would be recognised by the directive.

However, the Metock ruling at the European Court of Justice in July, disagreed with this interpretation.

[MAKUSA]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0925/marriage.html

What a mess, make it harder for genuine marriages. sick to the stomach

[ca.funke]

To Ireland, Denmark and a number of other countries, the so called Metock Case effectively allowed non-EU nationals to sidestep immigration law, simply by marrying non-Irish EU citizens - mostly people from Eastern Europe.

It would not allow anyone to "sidestep immigration law", if some imagination was used.

They're swamped by shams and as a result they blindly fight the directive in general without using their imagination.

First, but that's off topic, the instream of people into Ireland is beginning to stop/slow down. So maybe they should even be happy about the shams...

Second, more substantial, the aim of the directive is to declare what should happen. EU-citizens (genuinely) married should be able to move and reside freely throughout the Union. A right I understand and support.

In order to filter the shams they should demand a history of the relation, photos, testimonials of friends, whatever - use your imagination here.

Where this gives reason to become suspicious, the couple should go under investigation by plain clothes' officers for a while. Are they leaving the same house in the morning? Are they appearing at the same house in the evenings? Stuff like that to make sure.

After all the directive talks of "marriages", and this covers genuine marriages only.

So I consider it the obligation of the government to establish what is genuine, and subsequently not recognise a sham-marriage as a marriage - and then 2004/38/EC no longer applies.

Just to line out one possible way out of this mess.

The current approach by the government leaves me speechless. They sound like whining kids in the sandpit, of course it's all Brussels fault. It's just all unfair in general....

[Christophe]

... In order to filter the shams they should demand a history of the relation, photos, testimonials of friends, whatever - use your imagination here.

Where this gives reason to become suspicious, the couple should go under investigation by plain clothes' officers for a while. Are they leaving the same house in the morning? Are they appearing at the same house in the evenings? Stuff like that to make sure ...

Presumably you mean on a one-off basis, either when the marriage is first contracted or (perhaps) when it becomes of relevance to matter of EU immigration? I don't think we'd want to live in a society where marriages were repeatedly coming under state-sanctioned scrutiny in that sort of way...

[archigabe]

I don't think we'd want to live in a society where marriages were repeatedly coming under state-sanctioned scrutiny in that sort of way.

I don't think that's a big deal if it is pertinent to immigration matters. A foreign national allowed residency in a foreign country should expect some amount of scrutiny.

Anyways, that's what the French government and the American Government have been doing for a long time.Someone arrives at your house unannounced and checks if you are living together in the same household. Even demanding a history of relationship similar to what they ask Irish -Non E.U couples could work better.

Imposing criminal penalties could discourage these scammers from getting into these deceptions.

What really annoys me is that the article implies that all the 4,600 E.u-Non E.U marriages are scams...

The Department has given figures to its European counterparts that show 4,600 non-EU nationals may have married non-Irish EU citizens in order to exploit a loophole in an EU directive on the free movement of people.

Some 30% of the residency applicants were either failed asylum seekers or students who had outstayed their visas.


- 4,600 non-EU nationals have applied for residence in Ireland - because they had married EU citizens - since the directive was introduced

I think we should let RTE know about their shoddy analysis that implies that all 4,600 marriages are scam marriages.

What I think the Irish government should focus on more is cracking down on fake English language institutes that sell visas that allow these knuckleheads to come to Ireland in the first place and contract fake marriages to stay on.

It's the same story as mentioned here...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 72358.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 74793.html

POOR, young Latvian women are being lured to Ireland with promises of up to €10,000 to "marry" illegal immigrants here, men mainly from Pakistan, most of whom are believed to have wives back in their home countries.

Adverts have been placed in Latvia and, it is believed other Baltic states, seeking women to come to Ireland to marry illegal immigrants over the past two years.

One advert in Latvia stated: "Young unmarried women wanted. Women who would agree to help Indian guys in Dublin with registering marriage on paper (fictitious marriage, popular in Dublin nowadays).

"Everything will be covered, plus you get €1,000, plus room rent covered, plus work offered, plus pocket money, plus course (professional, language) plus other benefits. Also plane ticket costs will be covered. All this is legal!."

Although the advert claimed that "Indian" men were involved, investigations into such marriages by the Garda National Bureau of Investigation (GNIB) found that those involved are all from Pakistan.

A journalist from Latvian newspaper Diena who posed as a possible bride, replied by email to the advert and received a reply stating: "When arriving in Ireland this marriage is not registered right away but only after 3-6 months not earlier, because in Ireland all 'paper formalities' take very long time and after you have submitted an application you must wait for another 3-6 months until that marriage.

[mktsoi]

if the irish government done what Archigabe said in the first place (unanounced show up in the applicant's house and check) in stead of refused all the non EU married to EU spouse residency application(including the one really married to their EU spouse). none of this would have happened.

[Christophe]

I don't think we'd want to live in a society where marriages were repeatedly coming under state-sanctioned scrutiny in that sort of way.

I don't think that's a big deal if it is pertinent to immigration matters. A foreign national allowed residency in a foreign country should expect some amount of scrutiny.

[/quote]
Really? I think it would be a terrible state of affairs. But I was really thinking, for example, of people who were long-married than the recently married, which is probably who are being talked about here, I guess.

[archigabe]

Well, I'm a foreign national in Ireland, and I don't mind some scrutiny if it helps me get my due rights in Ireland instead of being stuck in limbo like we were last year.

[MAKUSA]

House visits must be undertaken, a bit like early morning visits. This does not help the directive 2004/38/EC.

[ca.funke]

I don't think we'd want to live in a society where marriages were repeatedly coming under state-sanctioned scrutiny in that sort of way...

I agree that it shouldn't happen "repeatedly", but I wouldn't mind undergoing some scrutiny. Of course any possible scrutiny would have to be a bit annoying/intrusive, that's (unfortunately) unavoidable. I wouldn't mind having my house watched, so it can be seen that we come and leave together a lot, and stay in the same place overnight.

Knowing that the above could be faked I wouldn't even mind being woken up in the middle of the night, proving where the bed is warm (I guess this cannot be changed that quickly....)

The details are not the point - the point is that it is possible to filter sham-marriages, if this is what is wanted.

Furthermore, I think citizenship awarded to new-arrivals through marriage should have one indefinite exclusion: Newly Irish (newly any-"EU-statelers") should never be able to pass on their nationality to someone else through marriage. This way, a full family cannot re-locate by sending one person first, and once the years passed get divorced and get the remainder over. Just another thought to be discussesd for details.

Above measures, together with hefty criminal charges for the EU-part, and possibly the indefinite exclusion from the EU of the non-EU part could be effective measures to stop the mess from happening in the first place. Of course the details would have to be carefully discussed in public, I'm aware that my suggestions are a bit brute.

Well, I'm a foreign national in Ireland, and I don't mind some scrutiny if it helps me get my due rights in Ireland instead of being stuck in limbo like we were last year.

That's exactly what I mean and agree to. Given the stress we were exposed to (speaking for myself here), I wouldn't mind a policemen sleeping in our room in comparison. That would have been less stressful.

House visits must be undertaken, a bit like early morning visits. This does not help the directive 2004/38/EC.

Such house-visits would, imho, help 2004/38/EC a great deal, as a sham marriage is not a marriage. Thus once proven "sham" it should be possible not to recognise the marriage, subsequently 2004/38/EC no longer applies, and the person in question could be sent home.

[Dr. K]

People who are getting married on contract basis (fake) are doing wrong but this is not a time to point out any particular country people, i.e India, Pak or Bangla. American, African and others are also doing the same.

Women those involve in this are also fully responsible. Why they are making money.

Ex miniter of justice did so many negative things for Ireland.

[JAJ]

Furthermore, I think citizenship awarded to new-arrivals through marriage should have one indefinite exclusion: Newly Irish (newly any-"EU-statelers") should never be able to pass on their nationality to someone else through marriage. This way, a full family cannot re-locate by sending one person first, and once the years passed get divorced and get the remainder over. Just another thought to be discussesd for details.

There is no such thing as "citizenship by marriage" any more. Spouses of Irish citizens now have to become citizens by naturalisation.

Under the old post-nuptial declaration system, a person who had become an Irish citizen by post-nuptial declaration could not pass it on the same way to a subsequent spouse.

If you are asking about immigration, Australia has a system that imposes a lifetime two sponsorship limit for partner visas. Which can be waived in special circumstances (welfare of a child etc).

[mr.malikos]

Furthermore, I think citizenship awarded to new-arrivals through marriage should have one indefinite exclusion: Newly Irish (newly any-"EU-statelers") should never be able to pass on their nationality to someone else through marriage. This way, a full family cannot re-locate by sending one person first, and once the years passed get divorced and get the remainder over. Just another thought to be discussesd for details.

Ha....this would be funny, so you're telling me that "new" EU citizen shall have less rights than old ones....I mean how could a state possibly treat and separate his citizen in class A and class B categories??? I do not think this a good idea at all. Furthermore, finally you put emphases based on ethnic back ground and ancestry to the degree of rights a citizen would get....i.e. old pure citizens more would have more rights than new and impure ones ....may be we shall also introduce something like religion as well and not "only" race....that sounds like if we would be at the beginning of the 20th century.
I might agree with some other points OK...but this one has gone too far!!!!

Best Mr.malikos

[MAKUSA]

People who are getting married on contract basis (fake) are doing wrong but this is not a time to point out any particular country people, i.e India, Pak or Bangla. American, African and others are also doing the same.

Women those involve in this are also fully responsible. Why they are making money.

Ex miniter of justice did so many negative things for Ireland.

I fully agree with you Dr K, if it aint Asians, then its Africans. What about the greedy Europeans, or other Europeans who are involved in scam marriages in America, Canada, Japan, Australia etc and also vice versa.

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/showbiz ... e39219.ece

The dearly beloved media always point fingers on a section of society. A good German friend of mine recently told me about her French friend who married another Australian friend in order to stay in Ireland. This abuse is rampant amongst all nations not just a few.

[archigabe]

Fine Gael proposes tougher laws to halt 'sham marriages' trend

TOUGHER LAWS aimed at clamping down on the growing trend of "sham marriages" will be tabled by Fine Gael in the Dáil.

This follows evidence which suggests that an EU law, which allows foreign nationals to apply for residency in Ireland on the basis that they have married an EU citizen from outside the State, is being exploited.

At least 4,600 such people applied for Irish residency in the past two years, including some 600 each from Nigeria and Pakistan, according to Department of Justice figures. A closer analysis of the figures shows unusually high rate of marriage between Latvians and immigrants from the Indian subcontinent.

For example, 10 per cent of all applications were from Latvians, and 50 per cent of them were married to Pakistani, Indian or Bangladeshi nationals.

Government officials say the figures are so statistically abnormal that they cannot have occurred by chance. Of 4,600 applications, 2,000 were turned down - but this has since been reversed following a European Court of Justice ruling in July.

[Ben]

Interesting stuff, archigabe!

[MAKUSA]

they need to initiate home visits to check on peoples marriage validity, thats the only way forward.