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Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
Thanks for that, but one can apply for a work permit, would this application be processed by the respective European embassy on a more favourable term, than lets say a person applying from outside the EU.ca.funke wrote:You can't work in Europe on an 4EUFam.
It's only possible to _visit_ other EU-countries, TOGETHER with the family member.
Even travelling alone is impossible, so working is out of the question.
I'm not saying I think this makes sense, it's just the way it is.
THAT WAS WHAT I WANTED TO KNOW WHEN I OPENED THIS TOPIC BECAUSE I WAS ASKED BY MY COMPANY TO GO TO HOLLAND FOR 1 MONTH..First-Class Moron wrote:Van der Elst Case The European Court of Justice delivered a judgement on the Van der Elst Case (Freedom to Provide Services) on 9 August, 1994. The Court ruled that in the case of non- EEA workers legally employed in one Member State who are temporarily sent on a contract to another Member State, the employer does not need to apply for employment permits in respect of the non-nationals for the period of contract.
Persons who have been granted permission to remain in the State on one of the following grounds:
Persons with permission to remain as spouse or a dependent of an Irish/EEA national;
Persons with permission to remain as the parent of an Irish citizen;
Persons who have been given temporary leave to remain in the State on humanitarian grounds, having been in the Asylum process.
Swiss Nationals: In accordance with the terms of the European Communities and Swiss Confederation Act, 2001, which came into operation on 1 June, 2002, this enable the free movement of worker between Switzerland and Ireland, without the need for Work Permits.
Ca.funke, I think I disagree with this. You can go and work in Europe (together with your EU family member), not on the basis of 4EUFam, but simply on the basis of being a family member of an EU citizen. No formalities are required if you are working for under 3 months, and if you are working you can apply for (another) local Residence Card.ca.funke wrote:You can't work in Europe on an 4EUFam.
It's only possible to _visit_ other EU-countries, TOGETHER with the family member.
Even travelling alone is impossible, so working is out of the question.
I'm not saying I think this makes sense, it's just the way it is.
Would the family member be able to be a cross-border worker, e.g. resident together with the spouse in member state A but crossing the border every day to work in member state B? (I am obviously not thinking so much about the 4EUFam case here but countries with joint land borders.)Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Ca.funke, I think I disagree with this. You can go and work in Europe (together with your EU family member), not on the basis of 4EUFam, but simply on the basis of being a family member of an EU citizen. No formalities are required if you are working for under 3 months, and if you are working you can apply for (another) local Residence Card.ca.funke wrote:You can't work in Europe on an 4EUFam.
It's only possible to _visit_ other EU-countries, TOGETHER with the family member.
Even travelling alone is impossible, so working is out of the question.
I'm not saying I think this makes sense, it's just the way it is.
The general rule is that the non-EU family member has exactly the same right of free movement and work as the EU citizen (as long as they are doing it in the same place or in this case places). They might require a different piece of documentation, but their right to do it stays the same.86ti wrote:Would the family member be able to be a cross-border worker, e.g. resident together with the spouse in member state A but crossing the border every day to work in member state B? (I am obviously not thinking so much about the 4EUFam case here but countries with joint land borders.)
relating to this topic, does it mean if i ve rc based on my eea nation wife, i can work in another eea country temporary without her moving down?Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The general rule is that the non-EU family member has exactly the same right of free movement and work as the EU citizen (as long as they are doing it in the same place or in this case places). They might require a different piece of documentation, but their right to do it stays the same.86ti wrote:Would the family member be able to be a cross-border worker, e.g. resident together with the spouse in member state A but crossing the border every day to work in member state B? (I am obviously not thinking so much about the 4EUFam case here but countries with joint land borders.)
So if the EU citizen can be a cross border worker, then so can the non-EU family member.
(Expect a tiny bit of pushback from civil servants who have worked in the same job in the same country for the last 30 years and can not imagine going to a different country each day for work, but I they can be convinced).
There are lots of places in Europe where this is very common. Especially since, for example, the cost or quality of living is better in one country, but the neighbour country has better work options and is only 3km away.
Interesting question. I do not know the case law related to this, but I recently saw this on the Dutch IND web sitelaspo24 wrote:relating to this topic, does it mean if i ve rc based on my eea nation wife, i can work in another eea country temporary without her moving down?
If you are interested, I would urge you to call them why the change is being made. You might learn a lot in the process of the discussion.Non-EU family members of EU citizens who perform transfrontier work obliged to have a work permit
News item | 13-04-2011
Since 1 January 2011, non-EU family members of a citizen of the Union who, on the grounds of EU law, reside in a different Member State (which may or may not border the Netherlands) may only perform work in the Netherlands if the employer has a valid work permit, unless the Foreign Nationals (Employment) Act [Wet arbeid vreemdelingen] determines otherwise. For example, a Russian woman who lives in Antwerp with her German husband on the grounds of EU law may only work in the Netherlands if her employer has a work permit (TWV).
However, the same does not apply to family members who were resident in a different Member State immediately prior to 1 January 2011 on the grounds of EU law and who performed work in the Netherlands, with this situation continuing from 1 January 2011 onwards. These family members may continue their work until 1 January 2012 without their employer having to have a valid work permit. From 1 January 2012 onwards, however, the work permit obligation will also apply to them. If you would like more information on this issue, please call 0900-1234561 (€ 0.10 per minute plus the costs of using your mobile telephone). If you are calling from abroad, you should call +31 20 8893045.
This is a recent change in the Ducth Immigration. Is it similar in the other member state too? Can someone holding a Ducth residence card work freely up to 90 days in Ireland? Is it practically possible that an Irish employer would hire you based on your Dutch permit?Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:laspo24 wrote:
However, the same does not apply to family members who were resident in a different Member State immediately prior to 1 January 2011 on the grounds of EU law and who performed work in the Netherlands, with this situation continuing from 1 January 2011 onwards.
yes you are right.I can write to the embassy and I will get an answer or more precisely I will get a generic answer. Whats your experience if you are in Ireland? I am not willing to move for a Dutch employer but for myself. do you know how can I go about it? Do you know how does it work in Ireland? Feel free to ask me questions about NL and I will give u an honest opinion. and expecting the same...Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Likely not. Certainly not a random dutch employer.
If you are in the Netherlands, maybe you should write to the embassy and ask them!
Well we are planning to move to Ireland as things are not that great in NL at the moment. I am wondering can I do any kind of work when we get to Ireland until I get the EU1 sorted out? DO you know if the employers in Ireland would have no problem to offer me a job based on my Dutch ID for EU family member? or I will have to wait for my EU1 to start any work?Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Sorry I mistyped in the last post.
What exactly do you want to do? Is this a test, or do you actually want to take advantage of a short term opportunity?
Well not really. We had a roller coaster ride in NL for applying for my RC. I am not sure how is it gonna be in Ireland. Secondly, I hear you have to send a postal application for RC in Ireland and it takes about 2 weeks to get a COA. Is that true?Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Is there anything preventing you from immediately applying for a RC when you get to Ireland? Either because your spouse is working in Ireland or the spouse is self sufficient?
Hi Directive,Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:My experience is with the UK. I doubt an employer in UK would let you work based on your Dutch RC. Even I would not hire you with just your Dutch RC.
Don't know about Ireland, but I suspect you will find the same.
Is there anything preventing you from immediately applying for a RC when you get to Ireland? Either because your spouse is working in Ireland or the spouse is self sufficient?
Welcome to Ireland. I am sure Guinness tastes different there...newbieholland wrote:We are in Ireland and already have an employer who wants to employ me. I received a stamp from GARDA on arrival which says no rights to work. I spoke to the ICI and they confirmed that I can not work until the EU FAM application.
I know I have right to work unconditionally up to 90 days but after the discussion I have some doubts about it. Will I be in trouble if I take up the employment before getting my EU Fam? How can I show my spouse to be self sufficient based on my job and salary. Can you please advise me?
