border control help

[jsurferguy]

Hi, i am planning to get married to my girlfriend of 3 years next month. I am a student here on a student visa ending in oct 2009. I have a schengen visa to travel to her country to get married and to come back to the uk. But last week one of my friend student as well who is already married went to visit his in-laws from friday to sunday when reaching back the uk, was stopped by the immigration officer and was denied entry to the uk! He is married to an eu memeber and i was wondering if they can do that ? I am planning to go for my wedding as well and i am very scared the same thing happens to me, can anyone advise me here plz, as my friend's wife is in tears and we don't really know what to !!!

[republique]

Hi, i am planning to get married to my girlfriend of 3 years next month. I am a student here on a student visa ending in oct 2009. I have a schengen visa to travel to her country to get married and to come back to the uk. But last week one of my friend student as well who is already married went to visit his in-laws from friday to sunday when reaching back the uk, was stopped by the immigration officer and was denied entry to the uk! He is married to an eu memeber and i was wondering if they can do that ? I am planning to go for my wedding as well and i am very scared the same thing happens to me, can anyone advise me here plz, as my friend's wife is in tears and we don't really know what to !!!

And what reason did they give for his refusal?

[UKBAbble]

Hi, i am planning to get married to my girlfriend of 3 years next month. I am a student here on a student visa ending in oct 2009. I have a schengen visa to travel to her country to get married and to come back to the uk. But last week one of my friend student as well who is already married went to visit his in-laws from friday to sunday when reaching back the uk, was stopped by the immigration officer and was denied entry to the uk! He is married to an eu memeber and i was wondering if they can do that ? I am planning to go for my wedding as well and i am very scared the same thing happens to me, can anyone advise me here plz, as my friend's wife is in tears and we don't really know what to !!!

Returning students can be refused entry for a variety of reasons. Without knowing what was on the IS82 form it would be impossible to comment. His marriage to an EU citizen would not avail him if his spouse was not exercising her treaty rights here.

[jsurferguy]

Returning students can be refused entry for a variety of reasons. Without knowing what was on the IS82 form it would be impossible to comment. His marriage to an EU citizen would not avail him if his spouse was not exercising her treaty rights here.[/quote]

I asked my friend's wife (lidia) she said they were travelling together, then on the counter they say that he was once refused student visa and won it over appeal. They refused him his visa before as they said they sent 2 letters to ask for further documentation on his application which he never received. They when he got his refusal, he appealed and showed all the documents they required and got his visa. She told me they asked him some stupid question like where is his school, what time he attends classes but he is genuine. As they went for only the weekend he didn't take no letter form his school, do you think that would be a reason why ? and can they ask all they question ?

[UKBAbble]

If he had a valid student visa he would have been given written reasons for refusal and a right of appeal before removal. You don't say on what basis he sought entry - if it was as an EEA family member his refusal ought not to have happened but without knowing the full story........

[jsurferguy]

If he had a valid student visa he would have been given written reasons for refusal and a right of appeal before removal. You don't say on what basis he sought entry - if it was as an EEA family member his refusal ought not to have happened but without knowing the full story........

Ok, i just asked her and whats she said well, the bit i could understand, is that they said the reason was deception as he entered as a student and later got married. They also said that he has not applied for a family permit and therefore still on student visa and was not allowed to travel without having permission from the school ? that doesn't make sense at all does it ?
As far as i have personally read, as long as you are married to an another eu citizen, you have the right to travel freely in europe while with your patner ? is that not right ?

[UKBAbble]

Ok, i just asked her and whats she said well, the bit i could understand, is that they said the reason was deception as he entered as a student and later got married. They also said that he has not applied for a family permit and therefore still on student visa and was not allowed to travel without having permission from the school ? that doesn't make sense at all does it ?

No it doesn't. That is not the reason he was refused.

As far as i have personally read, as long as you are married to an another eu citizen, you have the right to travel freely in europe while with your patner ? is that not right ?

Not exactly. The EU citizen must be exercising their treaty rights in the country they visit.

[jsurferguy]

franckly i don't get it as well, this is what she said, i have to read the papers to get a better idea. Any advise for me as for what i should have on me when i am coming back from my wedding ?

[cutepearl]

i guess you should have your wife with you... and a family permit would be sufficient and proof of marriage that you are legallu married.

[cutepearl]

i guess you should have your wife with you... and a family permit would be sufficient and proof of marriage that you are legallu married.

[Richard66]

Not exactly. The EU citizen must be exercising their treaty rights in the country they visit.

Sorry there, even UK visas admit that for the first three months there is no need for an EEA citizen to exercise treaty rights when travelling to another EEA state.

[UKBAbble]

Not exactly. The EU citizen must be exercising their treaty rights in the country they visit.

Sorry there, even UK visas admit that for the first three months there is no need for an EEA citizen to exercise treaty rights when travelling to another EEA state.

That's not something I was aware of. I do think it would be unwise though to risk travelling without a family member permit (other than to the UK).

[Richard66]

The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006:

Initial right of residence
13. —(1) An EEA national is entitled to reside in the United Kingdom for a period not exceeding three months beginning on the date on which he is admitted to the United Kingdom provided that he holds a valid national identity card or passport issued by an EEA State.

Any mention to being a Qualified Person?

Or take this, from http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/chapte ... ur%20eight. It speaks of Surinder Singh cases, but it should be even more valid for other EEA nationals:

Because EEA nationals have an initial three month right of residence in the UK, there is no requirement for the British national to be a qualified person on arrival. Therefore, an EEA family permit can be issued to the family member of a British national even if they are only visiting the UK with the British national before returning to the Member State where they are resident.

[jsurferguy]

This is all very confusing ... let me tell me my case and maybe you can advise me aout my future travel, as i won't want to be in the case of my friend.

I am student here on a student visa, been since 2002 and is ending 2009. My fiancee of 3 years is lithuanian, she is student as well. She has been registered under workers registration scheme and has been here studying and working part-time for 3 years. We are planning to go get married in her country in late november just for 2 days to do the civil wedding as her parents won't be able to make it to the religious wedding as ticket prices are too high. Her embassy asked me to apply for a schegen visa through them and get my birth certificate, and certificate of morality translated and i can get married there. Now my issue is, like what happened to one of my friend, he went to see his in-laws and when he came back with his wife, he was stopped by an Immigration officer and was retain. Not clear as to why, i really need to see the letter as why they refused him entry.

I would just like to know if when married and coming back they can stop me for any reason and not let me in. ??? I have a valid visa until october, i got a letter form my uni saying that i am going on away for 2 days and i did apply for the schengen visa aswell. can anyone help as i would really to know what i have to expect !.

[jsurferguy]

This is all very confusing ... let me tell me my case and maybe you can advise me aout my future travel, as i won't want to be in the case of my friend.

I am student here on a student visa, been since 2002 and is ending 2009. My fiancee of 3 years is lithuanian, she is student as well. She has been registered under workers registration scheme and has been here studying and working part-time for 3 years. We are planning to go get married in her country in late november just for 2 days to do the civil wedding as her parents won't be able to make it to the religious wedding as ticket prices are too high. Her embassy asked me to apply for a schegen visa through them and get my birth certificate, and certificate of morality translated and i can get married there. Now my issue is, like what happened to one of my friend, he went to see his in-laws and when he came back with his wife, he was stopped by an Immigration officer and was retain. Not clear as to why, i really need to see the letter as why they refused him entry.

I would just like to know if when married and coming back they can stop me for any reason and not let me in. ??? I have a valid visa until october, i got a letter form my uni saying that i am going on away for 2 days and i did apply for the schengen visa aswell. can anyone help as i would really to know what i have to expect !.

[jsurferguy]

This is all very confusing ... let me tell me my case and maybe you can advise me aout my future travel, as i won't want to be in the case of my friend.

I am student here on a student visa, been since 2002 and is ending 2009. My fiancee of 3 years is lithuanian, she is student as well. She has been registered under workers registration scheme and has been here studying and working part-time for 3 years. We are planning to go get married in her country in late november just for 2 days to do the civil wedding as her parents won't be able to make it to the religious wedding as ticket prices are too high. Her embassy asked me to apply for a schegen visa through them and get my birth certificate, and certificate of morality translated and i can get married there. Now my issue is, like what happened to one of my friend, he went to see his in-laws and when he came back with his wife, he was stopped by an Immigration officer and was retain. Not clear as to why, i really need to see the letter as why they refused him entry.

I would just like to know if when married and coming back they can stop me for any reason and not let me in. ??? I have a valid visa until october, i got a letter form my uni saying that i am going on away for 2 days and i did apply for the schengen visa aswell. can anyone help as i would really to know what i have to expect !.

[jsurferguy]

very sorry, it went too many times

[Richard66]

Does anyone alse see what I see?

You cannot marry on a study visa in the UK.

But nothing stops this student from applying for a Schengen visa, receiving it and getting married to an EEA citizen in another EEA state and then returning to the UK and applying for a residence permit as a family member. This could also apply to UK citizens, as long as they go to the other EEA state to exercise a treaty right and there marrying this student, thus circumverting the fact one cannot marry on a student visa.

It looks like a loophole the UK does not really know how to deal with!

[jsurferguy]

i think of course a student can get married in the uk, as asked, you have to have a visa valid longer than 6 month and have 3 month left on the visa. then you can apply for the certificate or approval and get married !!! don't know what you are talking about

[Richard66]

I had the impression it was only possible with a Fiancé visa. With all the red tape and missing information, it is easy to say something foolish. In any case, I know that it is not possible on a visitor's visa.

[Plum70]

I had the impression it was only possible with a Fiancé visa. With all the red tape and missing information, it is easy to say something foolish. In any case, I know that it is not possible on a visitor's visa.

Wrong again. Marriage in the UK on a visitor's visa is also possible: See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... idance.pdf. However it is highly frowned upon by the UKBA (and may be perceived as deception if intentions are not declared beforehand) and though one may be granted a CoA to get married in the UK, you cannot switch status in-country and would have to return to their country of residence to apply for the appropriate spousal visa/entry clearance.

[freon21]

wrong.
It is possible to get married with or without visitors visa as long as the intended marriage is genuine as per house of lords judgement.A certificate of approval should be requested from the HO prior to give notice for marriage.check this
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... home-1.htm[/quote]

[freon21]

I meant Richard66 was wrong

[freon21]

.in tha CoA to get married e UK, you cannot switch status in-country and would have to return to their country of residence to apply for the appropriate spousal visa/entry clearance.
wrong
If the spouse is an EEA national then the non-EEA as 3 months right of stay(without exercise of treaty right) and can apply after for aresidence card.The right of residence derive from the familly tie and nothing else no prior lawfull residence required.



PRESS RELEASE No 57/08
25 July 2008
Judgment of the Court of Justice in Case C-127/08
Metock and Others v Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform
A NON-COMMUNITY SPOUSE OF A CITIZEN OF THE UNION CAN MOVE AND RESIDE WITH THAT CITIZEN IN THE UNION WITHOUT HAVING PREVIOUSLY BEEN LAWFULLY RESIDENT IN A MEMBER STATE
The right of a national of a non-member country who is a family member of a Union citizen to accompany or join that citizen cannot be made conditional on prior lawful residence in another Member State
Under the Directive on free movement of Union citizens1, all citizens have the right to move and reside in the territory of another Member State as workers or students or if they have comprehensive sickness insurance and sufficient funds not to become a burden on the social assistance system. The family members of a citizen of the European Union have the right to move and reside in the Member States with that citizen. They can enter a Member State if they have an entry visa or residence card issued by a Member State.
The Irish legislation transposing that directive provides that a national of a third-country who is a family member of a Union citizen may reside with or join that citizen in Ireland only if he is already lawfully resident in another Member State.
The question of the compatibility of the Irish legislation with the directive was raised in four cases pending before the High Court of Ireland. In each of those cases a third-country national arrived in Ireland and applied for asylum. In each case the application was refused. While resident in Ireland those four persons married citizens of the Union who did not have Irish nationality but were resident in Ireland. None of the marriages was a marriage of convenience.
After the marriage, each of the non-Community spouses applied for a residence card as the spouse of a Union citizen. The applications were refused by the Minister for Justice on the ground that the spouse did not satisfy the condition of prior lawful residence in another Member State.
Actions were brought against those decisions in the High Court, which asks the Court of Justice whether such a condition of prior lawful residence in another Member State is compatible with
1 Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States (OJ 2004 L 158, p. 77).
the directive and whether the circumstances of the marriage and the way in which the non-Community spouse of a Union citizen entered the Member State concerned have consequences for the application of the directive.
The Court of Justice finds that, as regards family members of a Union citizen, the application of the directive is not conditional on their having previously resided in a Member State. The directive applies to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they are a national, and to their family members who accompany them or join them in that Member State. The definition of family members in the directive does not distinguish according to whether or not they have already resided lawfully in another Member State. That interpretation is confirmed by several articles of the directive and supported by the case-law of the Court.
The Court considers that its judgment in the Akrich case,2 in which it

[Richard66]

Let us see... I got the information from here. Has it mislead me?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visit ... fapproval/

As for the links...

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... idance.pdf

This one gives this result:

Page not found
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while the other,

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... home-1.htm

Refers to a decision that I, living away from civilization, had not come across.