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E.U States Allowing Visa free Travel-E.U Fam&Residence c

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator

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ca.funke
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Post by ca.funke » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:25 pm

I just went to >>this<< website.

They ask 3 questions:

1 What's the purpose of your visit? --> Visit
2 What is your nationality? --> Lebanese
3 What country are you living in right now? --> Ireland

Without further diversification, the website tells you "YES - You will need a visa to come to the United Kingdom as a visitor"

However, if the applicant is a family-member of an EU-citizen and this is evidenced by an Irish "4EUFam"-card, the above information is incorrect, at least according to the law.

The UK maintains that the above is correct, thus I guess hassle-free travel can only be achieved through obtaining a UK entry-clearance. :(

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:34 pm

Visa-free travel will only be possible when people start throwing their weight about and protesting. Playing the sheep doesn't solve the problem.

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:23 pm

Your are right Richard and Funke, But what can we do that will make the UK and IRELAND drop this visa thing for FAMILY MEMBER CARD Holders after-all other EU countries wont ask for visa.

I got my FAMILY MEMBER CARD today and its all written in french,english and ofcourse Romanian and states RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBER. Well its the new family card and it as the EU symbol inbuilt and its a big size and not the size of a credit card as I was told b4.

Anyway if UK fucks me up again even the fact my wife is working there in the UK for 4 months now but we all know UK that they dont care much, so then maybe I and my wife would go somewhere else I can get a well paying job and pls you guys can adivice me on the best EU paying country I and my wife can settle down in with a good salary rate cus its low here in Romania.
Charles4u

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:40 pm

First, you make a better point using more moderated vocabulary, if you don't mind my saying so. I know I sound old-fashioned, but then I was already 80 when I was born.

If you want them to respect the law, you will need to make a complaint to the European commission. They have already received a number and have already referred the whole to the European Court of Justice. Add your and your wife's voice to it! Anyone, wither EEA citizen or resident can make one.

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:49 am

Hello guys, I wanted to go visit hungary and I called them if I needed a visa and they said I can go with just me FAMILY MEMBER CARD and my PASSPORT aloneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and without visa...

I dont know the problem with this UK and IRELAND ...
Charles4u

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:27 am

86ti wrote: We'll soon try to fly to Latvia and then go to Estonia. According to information from Ryanair (we asked directly at Liverpool Airport) they'll let us board. Let's see what the Latvians will do. We may have to visit my in-laws in St. Peterburg but I hesitate to attempt to re-enter the EU through the Russian-Estonian border.
We returned yesterday from Latvia without problems.

At Liverpool airport our passports were checked three times. First at the check-in counter. The girl there looked only once at me when I gave here a wrong booking confirmation from easyJet (for my mother's flight) but otherwise largely ignores us scribbling something behind her counter where I couldn't see. I don't think she ever saw my wife who was behind me repacking the suitcase and chasing our dauther. Second at the security check point. The officer there looks somehow strangely amused/confused at my wife's passport but gives it back to us without comment. Third check before boarding but only of the bio page.

Riga airport went very smoothly. No talking, no questioning, no stamp. Only a short check of the RC under the UV lamp (or whatever). Our final destination is Estonia but since we didn't pass any further boarder checks there's nothing to report on. We cross the Estonian/Latvian boarder several times in these two weeks but see Estonian boarder guards only once when we drive on a road right along the boarder. We decided not to go to Russia (through Narva) as my wife told me that the Russian boarder guards would check before re-entry and we didn't feel like testing their competence in EU laws.

On departure the girl at check-in asked me if the RC is the "visa". I explained to her that is not a visa but a RC and she let us check in. Later we saw that she wrote 'Check visa' on the boarding card but it was unlcear to us for whom. The passports were checked once again after security by Latvian IOs. My wife asked them if she could come back without me. They said yes. I asked them again 'Alone?'. 'No problem'. We got similar information from the Estonian embassy. Last check again before boarding.

Back at Liverpool airport the IO asks us for a landing card. I explain to him that we wouldn't need one. Another lady standing behind him (senior officer, I guess) tells him that that would be ok. I also tell them not to stamp my wife's passport. She said 'We know that'.

86ti
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Timaticweb

Post by 86ti » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:53 pm

I just sampled "the world's most reliable travel information source" Timaticweb which is used by airlines to determine visa requirrments (but obviously not by all). The database is accessible through Delta and Emirates. It appears to have been updated recently.

To make it short I just list the EU member countries that would not accept family member residence permits (that is, what the database makers think): Austria, Denmark, Lithuania, Slovakia and the UK. I checked for a resident of the UK and also Ireland, but entries for Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania appear all to be the same. In fact, the information generated by the web interface seems template based but the text is not always the same for different countries.

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:01 am

U r very right and I guess thats jut the way it is.
am just tired of some obeying the rule and somes not...its very funny and unbelievable even european countries will go against the EU laws..
Charles4u

giruzz
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Re: Timaticweb

Post by giruzz » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:46 pm

86ti wrote: To make it short I just list the EU member countries that would not accept family member residence permits (that is, what the database makers think): Austria, Denmark, Lithuania, Slovakia and the UK. I checked for a resident of the UK and also Ireland, but entries for Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania appear all to be the same. In fact, the information generated by the web interface seems template based but the text is not always the same for different countries.
According to the website France should allow holders of EEA Family members permit to enter. However, the Embassy's website is still saying that you need a visa.

will see..

giruzz

giruzz
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Re: Timaticweb

Post by giruzz » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:47 pm

86ti wrote: To make it short I just list the EU member countries that would not accept family member residence permits (that is, what the database makers think): Austria, Denmark, Lithuania, Slovakia and the UK. I checked for a resident of the UK and also Ireland, but entries for Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania appear all to be the same. In fact, the information generated by the web interface seems template based but the text is not always the same for different countries.
According to the website France should allow holders of EEA Family members permit to enter. However, the Embassy's website is still saying that you need a visa.

will see..

giruzz

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:26 pm

I did the opposite research: Russian resident in Italy travelling to the UK. It said: Visa required. No mention to EEA family members or indeed to the EEA FP. Does that mean that even in possession of the EEA FP boarding might be denied?

Up to some weeks ago there was mention of the EEA FP and, in case of family members without it, it was suggested Immigration in the UK were contacted.

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:25 am

Richard66 wrote:I did the opposite research: Russian resident in Italy travelling to the UK. It said: Visa required. No mention to EEA family members or indeed to the EEA FP. Does that mean that even in possession of the EEA FP boarding might be denied?
Good question? It may depend more than ever on the "sensibility" of the airline personnel. The problem of the FP is that it doesn't have "visa" printed on it. You may have read about our own experience with my wife's RC above. We were allowed to check in and the passports were checked anyway later again by boarder control.

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:47 pm

The UK hits above and bellow the belt in order to deny EEA family members their rights. This is just another one.

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:42 am

Strasbourg, 10/10/2008

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF RECEIPT



Dear Sir/Dear Madam,

Your complaint dated 06/10/2008 was received by the Office of the European Ombudsman on 06/10/2008 and was assigned registration number 2709/2008/EC.

It will be dealt with by Ms Elizabeth CLEAVER (Tel. +33 (0)3.88.16.41.48).

The Ombudsman can only make inquiries into complaints that meet the criteria of admissibility set out in the Treaty establishing the European Community and the Statute of the European Ombudsman. Information concerning the admissibility of your complaint will be communicated to you as soon as possible.

Please note that complaints to the European Ombudsman (and any annexed documents) are dealt with publicly, unless the complainant requests confidentiality. Even a confidential complaint, however, must be sent to the Community institution or body concerned, if the Ombudsman begins an inquiry. Further information, including reference to the rules concerning protection of personal data, can be found in the enclosed note.

As set out in Article 2(6) of the Statute of the European Ombudsman, complaints submitted to the Ombudsman shall not affect time limits for appeals in administrative or judicial proceedings.

Please provide a postal address for future correspondence.

Sincerely yours,

João SANT'ANNA
Head of the legal department


Guys I have made this petition and also I have my application delayed at the british embassy here in Romania saying they are changing the EEA permit thing or so ..I dont know what they wanna come up with this time and I hope for GOOD.

I will inform u guys whatever happens....
Charles4u

fysicus
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Netherlands

Post by fysicus » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:23 am

Richard66 wrote:Visa-free travel will only be possible when people start throwing their weight about and protesting. Playing the sheep doesn't solve the problem.
Richard, I couldn't agree more!!

For anyone interested in their rights:

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/directive-200438ec/
http://eumovement.wordpress.com/other-schengen/
http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2006/dec ... ook-06.pdf

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:29 pm

Thank you for the support! I am happy there are still people in the world like you that have guts!

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:10 pm

Well richard u funny with ur words but anyway I think i gat some too and I dont mind fighting for rights also.

But there is always things different or being treated in a more different way when it comes to AFRICANS as I am also and I wouldnt know if they will easily take our world or opinion as we are always considered immigrants in Europe.

Someday thing will surely turn around and am ready to fight for it the best way I can.
Charles4u

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:46 pm

Of course, I should have included you in the team with guts, but that was just a general remark.

Welcome!

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:26 am

Well thanks, I would like to know for sure what can really be done on this issue concerning UK with EEA family permit to be cancelled as it seems the EU are not taking it serious enough or maybe they are just covering up the case.
Charles4u

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:19 pm

This is not so, Charles: the UK is being investigated by the European Court of Justice. It just takes timem that's all.

I have also sent a letter to the European Ombudsman, asking him to step in.

Why don't you contact Prawo? He might be able to give you a hand?

charles4u
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Post by charles4u » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:19 am

Richard66 wrote:This is not so, Charles: the UK is being investigated by the European Court of Justice. It just takes timem that's all.

I have also sent a letter to the European Ombudsman, asking him to step in.

Why don't you contact Prawo? He might be able to give you a hand?

Ok then if u say so ..thx alot and hope all is fine with u too.

I have contacted him by a private msg here and also written on the page and hope he gets back intouch with me soon, once again thx so much and lets see what happens concerning this UK EEA thing.
Charles4u

Tobbe
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Post by Tobbe » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:04 pm

The Spanish embassy has updated their page to reflect the fact that they
do not comply with the Directive. You will need to get a Schengen visa
before arriving even if you have a residence card.

http://www.maec.es/subwebs/Embajadas/Du ... ublin.aspx


Oh and:

"If you are married to an EU citizen or one or both of your parents are EU citizens but you are not in possesion of a valid EU Fam residence card the visa is FREE OF CHARGE PROVIDING YOU ACCOMPANY OR JOIN THE EU CITIZEN. Otherwise you have to pay for the visa. Please provide the Embassy with your marriage or birth certificate and your spouse´s passport or your parent(s) passport(s) as proof."


So if you have a residence card not only do they not recognise it, you then have to pay for the visa..... surely I read it wrong?

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:52 pm

They have made a big blunder: in their transposition of Directive 2004/38 they confuse Schengen with EEA and recognise only Schengen residence cards! I found that out the other day when I was reading the law for some other reason.

[quote]Real Decreto 240/2007, de 16 de febrero

(...)

CAPÃ
Last edited by Richard66 on Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

Tobbe
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Post by Tobbe » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:00 pm

Already did!

Got it back with “In order to comply with the provision of article 5 the
Directive, Spain brought into force the Royal Decree 240/2007. this text
correctly transposes Article 5 of Directive 2004/38.â€

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:03 pm

At this point you best write to the European Ombudsman. The EC obviously has not bothered to read the decree.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

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