I DID WRONG, WILL I BE 4GIVEN?

[Florentina]

Hello everyone,

first I would like to thank the management of this board for giving us a forum to air our problems and receive immigration advise. I have heard a lot from my cousin who is a member of this site before coming to have a look and I haven't been disappointed. I want to say thank you to all the active members who give very good advise.

Now to my problem.

I was brought into the country (illegally) at a young age to join my mum who didn't have leave to remain in the country at the time but she subsequently gained residence 2 years after I arrive at which stage I was over the age of 18 so I wasn't able to remain as her dependant. We sought advise from friends who said that I return to my country to apply as my mum's daughter but not before reducing my age to fit into the dependant category. I altered my age and name as my mum did mention me in her initial application with the home office, so we didn't want this flagged up. The ECO didn't believe our claim and requested for a dna test which we did. The DNA came out wrong as it determined that I was my mum's sister rather than her daughter. This isn't true of course as we did our own test which came out right. However, the home office had already refused our application.

Now i know that this is wrong but I was able to re-enter the UK illegally again ( I am sorry to those who are angry at this as it is a very bad thing). Now, I have been living in the UK for 10 years now and is married with 2 children. My husband and children are British. We have decided that we should do something about my status and decided to go back home.

The only thing is that I am fearful that my past wrongs will now catch up with me. I would be asked in my new application if I have made an application in the past and I don't know how to answer this as my previous act was grievous. If I disclose it, I know that I would certainly be refused. If I don't and they pick it up, it would be equally bad and I could be banned for 10 years. My husband is not from the same country as me so he cannot live in my country and my mum and rest of my family are here too. My children will miss their grandma a lot if we relocate.

Although the previous name is different and age and there was no fingerprinting but I am still very scared but want to go out and apply still.

Please, I know I did wrong but if you can advise me on the next step to take, i would be greatful. thanks.

I know that you will judge me and you are right to do so. I am one of those who make visa issuing hard for genuine applicant. I did wrong, yes but please help me. My mum is distraught about this whole thing and keeps going in and out of hospital. she feels it's her fault but the truth is I played a part to. I came back the second time illegally. I am sorry, very sorry. I wish I didn't but I did.

[JAJ]

I strongly recommend professional assistance:

http://www.jcwi.org.uk
http://www.iasuk.org

may be able tor refer you to a competent practitioner.

If you have been in the U.K. for 14 years you may be able to apply for settlement on that basis. Processing won't be quick but depending on your circumstances, may be preferable to leaving and applying from out of country.

[Florentina]

I strongly recommend professional assistance:

http://www.jcwi.org.uk
http://www.iasuk.org

may be able tor refer you to a competent practitioner.

If you have been in the U.K. for 14 years you may be able to apply for settlement on that basis. Processing won't be quick but depending on your circumstances, may be preferable to leaving and applying from out of country.

Thank you very much JAJ. We will do that but my husband still wants the quick fix. I won't say I don't either.

[Frontier Mole]

There is no quick fix so looking for one will not get you any further forward. No matter how good a lawyer you have it will not right the wrongs of the past.

What you will be able to do is put together a good article 8 family life and spouse visa claim that will go along way to getting you a chance to re-enter. The risks are very high, if you are not willing to disclose your history and it gets found out you will not be getting back into the UK through the normal visa route for 10 years. Something to think about before you decide what route to go down.

My advice is to disclose everything, have a good lawyer prepare your case for return and hope for the best. Case law is with you on certain aspects, the main concern is the deception employed to attempt to return earlier in your life.

When you got married what name did you use? Obviously if it was not your actual correct details the marriage is void. What country are you from, it should not have a bearing but it does.

[Florentina]

Oh thank you very much indeed Frontiermole. My cousin has said great things about you.

In response to your question, I am from the Gambia and married in my real name.

I have thought about it and decided that I would tell the whole truth but I am getting very worried about this ban now. Do you think I should be applying in the UK instead as the risk of going out is so high? Do I stand a better chance in the country?

[Frontier Mole]

If you apply in country the following things will happen
It will take months to get a decision - perhaps more than a year.
You will get served with a whole range of paperwork none of it good
Your record is made worse by the fact that you are in country as an illegal with no means of proving entry.

By going back to your country of origin
You get a decision in a matter of days or a few weeks at most.
It shows you have accepted your status by returning to your country
The system will show only the bits that UKBA know now, no nasty paperwork on file. Yes they will know you could not have got into the UK except as an illegal BUT the system is not showing you as an illegal.

The fastest and least complicated way is to go home. Your article 8 claim and spouse status will get you back here in no time.

I do want to check out policy / point of law regarding the use of deception. There is something about if the deception was used so many years ago that it is excluded from the consideration. Will get back to you on that.

[Twin]

Frontier Mole, what makes the OP's history different from Dua's? You were much more harder on Dua than you are here.

[Florentina]

If you apply in country the following things will happen
It will take months to get a decision - perhaps more than a year.
You will get served with a whole range of paperwork none of it good
Your record is made worse by the fact that you are in country as an illegal with no means of proving entry.

By going back to your country of origin
You get a decision in a matter of days or a few weeks at most.
It shows you have accepted your status by returning to your country
The system will show only the bits that UKBA know now, no nasty paperwork on file. Yes they will know you could not have got into the UK except as an illegal BUT the system is not showing you as an illegal.

The fastest and least complicated way is to go home. Your article 8 claim and spouse status will get you back here in no time.

I do want to check out policy / point of law regarding the use of deception. There is something about if the deception was used so many years ago that it is excluded from the consideration. Will get back to you on that.

Thank you, thank you, thank you very much Frontiermole. You have given me hope in all this mess. I was so scared but now I feel good about telling the truth. It is such a burden to lie because you have to continually think of more lies to cover your track. I tell you, it's a life of bondage.

Please look up the information on deception and get back to me, please. But do you think I should prepare myself for a refusal more than an approval? Do you think that we have to go to the high courts before it gets resolved? How long would I have to stay in the Gambia? My children cannot come with me so I would like to know, please.

I read about refusal ground 320 11. am I likely to be refused on this ground also? I know that it is likely because I fit into their category, don't you think so? the immigration officer isn't going to like me very much, is he? He's going to say I tricked him twice and refuse me? I'm sorry, i'm starting to go crazy.

[Frontier Mole]

Sorry did not get a chance to look up the policy I wanted to yesterday. I was in my Darth Vader role at court for the day.

I have found something that states - if the deception employed was more than 10 years ago it is to be discounted BUT that assumes that it was a visa application and the individual did not enter the UK. I need to find out where this fits into the circumstances you state. It is not likely to help you.

I still hold to my original thinking that you should be fine under the spouse / family rules that exclude you from getting the 320(11) mandatory ban. I would just like to ensure that the illegal entry part is squared away before you make plans to go home.

[Frontier Mole]

Found policy I was looking for. You do not benefit from the policy as it is only in cases where out of country deception is used. As you have been in the UK as an illegal that over rides the out of country deception element in its own right.

Still apply as you are protected under the immigration rules as a spouse & family member.

[Twin]

still hold to my original thinking that you should be fine under the spouse / family rules that exclude you from getting the 320(11) mandatory ban. I would just like to ensure that the illegal entry part is squared away before you make plans to go home.

FM, how right is this? Family members are indeed excluded from a ban under paragraph 320(7b) but can be readily refused under paragraph 320(11).

Given that the OP has used deception twice, my personal opinion is that she could be slapped with 320(11) - just me playing the devil's advocate.

[Frontier Mole]

The issue is not to be caught in the UK. Once that happens you have no chance. Leaving before you get caught reduces the penalty in effect.

The thing is being an illegal is not the same as employing deception. There are thousands of illegals in the country; they arrived as undocumented or undeclared entrants. It is an offence but given the circumstances for SOME of them it is not wholly unjustified that they do not have documentation. Which is a whole different story from using false documents etc etc. Entry by illegal means other than use of false documentation is not treated as harshly.

There have been a number of successful returns since the change in the rules on this forum based on the OP circumstances. The only difference now is that the 1st Oct date has passed closing off the return path for those other than spouse / family returns. Your average student overstayer is now up the creek, if they return now they will not get the by on 320(7B) anymore. Have a minimum one year ban thank you very much ...next!

[Twin]

I get you, FM but the deception i'm particularly referring to here is the one used in the entry clearance application. The OP stated that she falsified her date of birth and name. This is the deception that would be hard for her to scale.

[Florentina]

Hello, sorry I have been absent from the topic because i've been down with the flu. I would like to thank everyone that has replied, most especially frontiermole. Twins said i would be refused on 320 11 is this true? this is exactly what was worrying me. If I am refused that means i would have to stay in the Gambia for a long time for appeal which means i would be away from my entire family. Oh my god! I am very worried now.

someone on another site said I would be fine if i applied in the uk but my husband is very stressed about the length of time i would continue to remain illegally and since he heard about the concesion, he has just made up his mind that we should go for it in the Gambia but he is not preparing himself for us bein apart for a long time. somebody help me please.

[Ben]

Consider using EU law.

Consider a move to Ireland for 6 months. Then, simply move back to the UK.

So long as your husband gets a job in Ireland for the 6 months you stay there, you cannot be refused an Irish residence card. When you both return to the UK, you cannot be refused a UK residence card either.