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Hold on. How are you so sure that all the third world nationals are good for nothing? You better watch your remarks.Instead I would have limited all those ppl from India, Africa and any other third world countries starting from 1962. Now we are suffering the consequences. Many of them don't speak a word of English and have never done 1 day's worth of work in their lives. They're just queueing up for the dole and do sod all. Many of them are here illegally and commit crimes. EEA citizens are hard working and law-abiding citizens (well most of them anyway).
I would argue that people from these parts of the world (India, Africa and the Caribbean) are just as likely to speak English and have cultural ties to the UK than some EEA countries, because of the impact of British colonialism. Most of the Caribbean speak English (as either their joint mother-tongue or their only mother-tongue). And Indians, by the way, are considered the community that does best in terms of upward social mobility (education, income and profession), sometimes outdoing the 'native' white English/British populations.BAI wrote:Siggi - you're wrong. You cannot limit the number of EEA nationals entering the UK. That's the whole point of the EU. Freedom of movement between member states. Instead I would have limited all those ppl from India, Africa and any other third world countries starting from 1962. Now we are suffering the consequences. Many of them don't speak a word of English and have never done 1 day's worth of work in their lives. They're just queueing up for the dole and do sod all. Many of them are here illegally and commit crimes. EEA citizens are hard working and law-abiding citizens (well most of them anyway). If I was immigration minister I'd start removing the ppl who don't contribute anything to society...
I would argue a great many have, a lot of Poles, Czechs, Baltics, and Ukrainians (ok not EU) settled here after WW2 after fighting the Axis forces, so there is a connection.Siggi wrote: Many new members from the former Warsaw Pac countries, who really have no lie ties to the UK either through language or cultural.
@bai i know a lots of eu friends claiming benefit in their home country and here also when we say eu means they are not from third world and they can get job in thier home country so why they did move to uk if they can manage to live in thier home country ??BAI wrote:Siggi - you're wrong. You cannot limit the number of EEA nationals entering the UK. That's the whole point of the EU. Freedom of movement between member states. Instead I would have limited all those ppl from India, Africa and any other third world countries starting from 1962. Now we are suffering the consequences. Many of them don't speak a word of English and have never done 1 day's worth of work in their lives. They're just queueing up for the dole and do sod all. Many of them are here illegally and commit crimes. EEA citizens are hard working and law-abiding citizens (well most of them anyway). If I was immigration minister I'd start removing the ppl who don't contribute anything to society...
This is a pointless, offensive line of argument. Why do you persist?BAI wrote:UK should close its doors to all foreigners except ppl from the EU. Europe is for Europeans and not for foreigners from 3rd world countries.
Well, to be fair, wasn't Mr Woolas talking primarily about people who might be immigrating to the UK in the future rather about people already in the UK? But in any case, he seems to have retracted his comments somewhat.whirly wrote:Back to the topic of the original post, I think all immigrants in the UK have cause to be worried when people like Mr. Woolas start pointing fingers at them.
Actually, I read yewhongwei79's comments the other way around — as not offering support to BAI's position.whirly wrote:... not to mention yewhongwei79's seeming support for BAI's position.
i guess you are not from UK better go back to where you come from and get job in farm. great Britain they doing good for not joining EU. 50% of UK incomes taxes from third world workers .BAI wrote:UK should close its doors to all foreigners except ppl from the EU. Europe is for Europeans and not for foreigners from 3rd world countries.
yewhongwei79 wrote:Non-EU people come to UK to work legally - contribute to tax, NI, no social benefits (mostly high-skills jobs but require VISA)
Non-EU people come to UK to work illegally - doesn't contribute to tax, NI, but still no social benefits (mostly low skills jobs)
EU people come to UK to work legally - contribute to tax, NI, make full use of social benefits (range from low-skill to high-skill jobs, no visa is required) from day 1
EU people come to UK to work illegally .... err... they don't have to.
So tell me, which group of people have more impact to UK societies, in terms of taking away local job opportunities, overcrowded, adding burdens to UK social benefits system .... etc?
They might well pay tax/NI but they may well cost extra BA admin time, removal time, flights etc so the net effect is probably nilThandia wrote:yewhongwei79 wrote:Non-EU people come to UK to work legally - contribute to tax, NI, no social benefits (mostly high-skills jobs but require VISA)
Non-EU people come to UK to work illegally - doesn't contribute to tax, NI, but still no social benefits (mostly low skills jobs)
EU people come to UK to work legally - contribute to tax, NI, make full use of social benefits (range from low-skill to high-skill jobs, no visa is required) from day 1
EU people come to UK to work illegally .... err... they don't have to.
So tell me, which group of people have more impact to UK societies, in terms of taking away local job opportunities, overcrowded, adding burdens to UK social benefits system .... etc?
I always wonder why people assume overstayers (illegals in most people's books) don't pay tax & NI. No employer can employ someone & not deduct tax & NI contributions as long as these people are paid by BACS or cheque. Few employers pay cash in hand now & as long as someone's working, they will pay tax & NI!!! You do not actually need an NI number to start work, even the Inland Revenue says so. Similarly you can only apply for a NINO where there is an offer of employment or when you are already employed. A lot of employers don't follow up whether or not you have one
I know because I work with a lotta asylum seekers/overstayers etc who work & still receive a payslip with NI & tax deductions. I'm sure that people who've put in applications based on the 14 year long residency will attest to this.
Stop peddling untruths.
ITA Mr Rusty. They contribute & this works out very well for the IR. Sorting it out would not benefit them but would result in a loss in revenie.Mr Rusty wrote:There is an extraordinary anomaly in the NINO system which enables illegal workers to make NI contributions against fictitious or "stolen" NI numbers, but the Inland Revenue seem to have no way of noticing if contributions from two different sources are made against the same number. Of course, there's no incentive for them to do anything about it, because they're not bothered where the money comes from.
I once discussed this with a guy in the Revenue, who said that the only time when questions are asked is if the genuine NINO-holder loses his job and claims benefit, while somewhere out there contributions are still being recorded......
Employers can no longer afford to put illegals "on the books". If UKBA asks to see the payroll and they can't prove that their employees are legal, that's a £10k fine per illegal employee.Thandia wrote:I always wonder why people assume overstayers (illegals in most people's books) don't pay tax & NI. No employer can employ someone & not deduct tax & NI contributions as long as these people are paid by BACS or cheque. Few employers pay cash in hand now & as long as someone's working, they will pay tax & NI!!! You do not actually need an NI number to start work, even the Inland Revenue says so. Similarly you can only apply for a NINO where there is an offer of employment or when you are already employed. A lot of employers don't follow up whether or not you have one
I know because I work with a lotta asylum seekers/overstayers etc who work & still receive a payslip with NI & tax deductions. I'm sure that people who've put in applications based on the 14 year long residency will attest to this.
Stop peddling untruths.