Northern Ireland non-EU resident applying for Irish Citizenship via marriage

[lilberto]

Hi all,

I've recently joined the forum, and I'm planning ahead for submitting an application for Irish Citizenship within the next year. Good timing (or maybe not!), as fresh changes to the Application format have just arrived.

Context

• US citizen married to Northern Irish (dual Irish & British citizenship)
• Currently resident in Northern Ireland on a Spouse Visa, almost at 3 years residence
• Preparing to apply for Irish citizenship based on marriage to an Irish citizen

I've read the most up-to-date Form 8 (Jan 2022) to understand the required documents etc but I have a few specific questions if anyone could lend their advice please. Some are Northern Ireland-specific.

1. Reckonable Residence Calculator. Do I use stamps entering & leaving Northern Ireland/UK for calculating reckonable residence and input these onto the online calculator? Or am I exempt from completing the calculator entirely? Note that I have several Irish stamps in my passport but these are for onward transit to Northern Ireland from flight arrivals into Dublin from travel abroad.
2. Form 8 Q2 PPS Number, Registration Number (found on GNIB/IRP card), Person ID. Since I don't live in the Republic, I've never been registered with An Garda Síochána and therefore have no GNIB, PPS or Person ID number. Do I simply mark 'N/A' in these fields on the Application Form? Do I provide my UK Biometric Residence Card number in the Form instead (equivalent to IRP card)?
3. Form 8 Q5.4 Was any part of your time in the State for the purposes of study? Do I include study within Northern Ireland? I've been on a spouse visa throughout, not a student visa. I'm currently on a full-time MSc Midwifery degree at Queen's University Belfast which is sponsored by the Belfast Health & Social Care Trust.
4. Form 8 Q5.6 Have you been absent from the State for more than 6 weeks per annum? I assume I should answer this based on my time in Northern Ireland. Could someone please confirm?
5. Form 8 Q9.1 Means of Support. I'm a full-time postgraduate student for MSc Midwifery at Queen's University Belfast. The course is fully funded and sponsored by the NI Department of Health, I complete clinical placements with the Belfast Health & Social Care Trust and I'm paid a NHS Band 5 salary throughout the course. Immediately prior to starting the course, I was directly employed by the Belfast HSC as a Band 5 Staff Nurse. My payslips haven't changed since starting the postgraduate course, I'm still paid by the Belfast HSC. I will still be on the course by the time I'm ready to submit my application.
   
   With all of this in mind, can I select 'Employed' and provide Belfast HSC employment details only? Or do I select 'Studying' or both 'Employed' and 'Studying'?
6. Form 8 Q14 References. Three references from Irish Citizens. Can they be in-laws, e.g. brother-in-law?
7. Proof of Residence documents. Do the copies have to be certified? Can a document be used for both the proof of residency of the final year and for proof of residence within the previous 3 months prior to application? e.g. an annual mortgage statement issued within 3 months prior to application. Do the three proofs of residence in the final three months have to be from a joint statement or can it be two individual statements? e.g. Applicant and Spouse individual bank account statements can count as one proof of residence, or only a joint bank account statement would be acceptable?
8. Proof of Residence with only Spouse's name on statement. Could an annual mortgage statement under my Spouse's name be used as proof of residence for each of the three years, if a letter signed by my Spouse were to explain that we live in the same house?
9. An Garda Síochána National Vetting Bureau e-Vetting "Applicants residing outside the State will be required to provide a Police Clearance Certificate from the relevant law enforcement agency." I assume this would involve getting a PSNI check. Do I need to worry about this now, as it suggests the e-vetting begins after the Application Form is submitted?
10. Confirmation of Tax Compliance in the relevant jurisdiction by the Revenue authority. Previous posts suggest getting a document of this nature from HMRC is a nightmare, I've yet to see a success story. Will submission of P60s be sufficient proof for a PAYE employee working in the NHS?
11. Payslips, Bank Statements, Employer's Letter. From earlier posts, I've seen people mention submitting 3-6 months of payslips, bank statements and an employer's letter as part of the Application. However I've yet to see this on the guidance notes of the latest Application Form. Can someone please confirm that these are not a requirement?

I realise that's a lot of questions! But please, I'll be very grateful even if a few of these can get clarified. Thanks so much for any help!

[nisi]

Firstly, good luck! I had a lot of similar questions as a British Citizen living in Northern Ireland, the form and guidance seems rather orientated around the assumption that you live in the Irish State, and detail for what NI applicants should do is sorely missing. I emailed the citizenship service with a similar list of questions and never really got good answers, so gave up and submitted my application with guesses a few months ago (for which I obviously haven't heard back yet). The rest of my comments below are guesswork/inferences from what I've read.

[*]Form 8 Q2 PPS Number, Registration Number (found on GNIB/IRP card), Person ID. Since I don't live in the Republic, I've never been registered with An Garda Síochána and therefore have no GNIB, PPS or Person ID number. Do I simply mark 'N/A' in these fields on the Application Form? Do I provide my UK Biometric Residence Card number in the Form instead (equivalent to IRP card)?

I ended up putting N/A for the PPS number and Person ID, I can't comment on the IRP card as I don't need it

[*]Form 8 Q5.6 Have you been absent from the State for more than 6 weeks per annum? I assume I should answer this based on my time in Northern Ireland. Could someone please confirm?

I answered yes, and wrote a note beside that I had been resident in Northern Ireland for the whole period, without an absence of more than 6 weeks per annum from Northern Ireland.

[*]Proof of Residence documents. Do the copies have to be certified? Can a document be used for both the proof of residency of the final year and for proof of residence within the previous 3 months prior to application? e.g. an annual mortgage statement issued within 3 months prior to application. Do the three proofs of residence in the final three months have to be from a joint statement or can it be two individual statements? e.g. Applicant and Spouse individual bank account statements can count as one proof of residence, or only a joint bank account statement would be acceptable?

I'm fairly sure they don't have to be certified copies (the main naturalisation page on the website states " You should submit photocopies of each document and ensure that each document shows the date, your name and address."). I read the requirements of proof of residence in the final 3 months as being 3 documents for each person, not 3 documents with joint names, which seems unachievable for most people.

[*]Proof of Residence with only Spouse's name on statement. Could an annual mortgage statement under my Spouse's name be used as proof of residence for each of the three years, if a letter signed by my Spouse were to explain that we live in the same house?

I'm fairly sure that quote above also answers this question, in that the documents must show your name (not your spouse's).

[*]An Garda Síochána National Vetting Bureau e-Vetting "Applicants residing outside the State will be required to provide a Police Clearance Certificate from the relevant law enforcement agency." I assume this would involve getting a PSNI check. Do I need to worry about this now, as it suggests the e-vetting begins after the Application Form is submitted?

I think this may be asked for later in the application process. I'm fairly sure when it's asked for you'll have to apply here https://www.acro.police.uk/police_certificates.aspx

[*]Confirmation of Tax Compliance in the relevant jurisdiction by the Revenue authority. Previous posts suggest getting a document of this nature from HMRC is a nightmare, I've yet to see a success story. Will submission of P60s be sufficient proof for a PAYE employee working in the NHS?

I phoned up HMRC and talked to someone who knew nothing about a TCC (which isn't something HMRC does), but was quite helpful and after a bit of a chat issued me with a letter which stated

Code: Select all

Following our telephone conversation today. I am able to confirm that your UK tax affairs are up to date and that you have been fully compliant in your UK tax responsibilities

It arrived by post within a week or so. That's what I've submitted as my confirmation.

[*]Payslips, Bank Statements, Employer's Letter. From earlier posts, I've seen people mention submitting 3-6 months of payslips, bank statements and an employer's letter as part of the Application. However I've yet to see this on the guidance notes of the latest Application Form. Can someone please confirm that these are not a requirement?[/list]a

You're right, this requirement seems to have gone from the form. It used to appear after the residency requirements, I guess this requirement has been superseded by the new score-based residency system. If you'd like to see the old form for reference, it's still online at https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... m-CTZ3.pdf

[nisi]

Please delete, incorrectly posted

[lilberto]

Thanks so much for your help, particularly your success story of getting proof of tax compliance.

A few follow up questions for anyone that can answer please...

Proof of Residency - Online vs Post. Can online PDFs of a bank statement/utility bill be used, or must they be photocopies of a statement delivered via post?

Reckonable Residency Calculator. My residence in Northern Ireland is based on a visa issued by the UK, and therefore I do not have Irish residency permission stamps on my passport (other than onward transit to Northern Ireland). Therefore I cannot complete the residency calculator as it requires you to select the stamp type. Yet the application form states "You must print a copy of the report and include it with this application. If you do not do so your application will be deemed ineligible." Is it acceptable to ignore this and leave a note to explain I'm a Northern Ireland resident?

[nisi]

Proof of Residency - Online vs Post. Can online PDFs of a bank statement/utility bill be used, or must they be photocopies of a statement delivered via post?

I printed out PDFs and sent them. If you're concerned you could print them out and then photocopy them? I'd be surprised if anyone could tell the difference. As I noted previously, it'll be months/years before i hear back about my application, so I can't be sure if my method won't be accepted...

Reckonable Residency Calculator. My residence in Northern Ireland is based on a visa issued by the UK, and therefore I do not have Irish residency permission stamps on my passport (other than onward transit to Northern Ireland). Therefore I cannot complete the residency calculator as it requires you to select the stamp type. Yet the application form states "You must print a copy of the report and include it with this application. If you do not do so your application will be deemed ineligible." Is it acceptable to ignore this and leave a note to explain I'm a Northern Ireland resident?

As a British citizen this doesn't apply to me, so I can't comment on it. Hopefully someone else will be able to advise.

[meself2]

hey!

[*]Form 8 Q5.4 Was any part of your time in the State for the purposes of study? Do I include study within Northern Ireland? I've been on a spouse visa throughout, not a student visa. I'm currently on a full-time MSc Midwifery degree at Queen's University Belfast which is sponsored by the Belfast Health & Social Care Trust.

I understood it as "solely for the purposes of study", as study visas/permits (stamp 2/2a) usually do not count as reckonable residence, so I assume that is the reason they added this question. I was studying here since I arrived, but as I had a different stamp, I ticked "no". Haven't heard from them yet as I summitted my documents last month, but that's my take on this.

Proof of Residency - Online vs Post. Can online PDFs of a bank statement/utility bill be used, or must they be photocopies of a statement delivered via post?

I personally submitted original bank statements (no utility bills) for my Irish bank account and print outs of Revolut as I don't think you can get these by post. What you could technically do is request a duplicate statement, so you can send it to them, so they don't have any questions whatsoever. But sure, don't think you can distinguish a print out and the original one.

[lilberto]

I posted some of my questions, both Northern Ireland specific and non-specific, to Citizen Info one month ago and received a response today. Hopefully this can be of value to others.

Residency Calculator. My residence in Northern Ireland is based on a
visa issued by the UK, and therefore I do not have Irish residency
permission stamps on my passport (other than for onward transit to
Northern Ireland). Therefore I cannot complete the residency calculator,
yet the application form states "You must print a copy of the report and
include it with this application. If you do not do so your application
will be deemed ineligible." Can you advise?
Do not use the residence calculator to prove your residence in
Ireland. You cannot use the calculator because (as a UK, EU/EEA or Swiss
national) your passport is not stamped with immigration permission stamps.

Confirmation of Tax Compliance. HMRC does not issue a certificate or
document to state tax compliance. As a salaried employee of the NHS
under a PAYE system, will submission of my P60s be sufficient proof? If
not, can you advise?
ACCEPTABLE - AS YOU ARE RESIDENT NI

Proof of Residency. Can print-outs of online PDFs of a bank statement or
utility bill be used, or must they be copies of a statement delivered
via post?
PRINTED COPIES CAN BE USED ONCE YOUR NAME ADDRESS / DATE ARE
ATTACHED

Proof of Residency under Spouse's Name. Could an annual mortgage
statement under my spouse's name be used as proof of residence for each
of the three years, if a letter signed by my spouse were to explain that
we live in the same house? This could be backed up further with an
annual property tax bill addressed to both my spouse and I.
ACCEPTABLE

I was particularly pleased to hear that a mortgage statement under a spouse's name accompanied with a signed letter is acceptable, as it is worth 50 points under the new Scorecard scheme.

Best wishes.

[nisi]

Do not use the residence calculator to prove your residence in
Ireland. You cannot use the calculator because (as a UK, EU/EEA or Swiss
national) your passport is not stamped with immigration permission stamps.

That's an odd answer, given that you're not "a UK, EU/EEA or Swiss national", have they copy/pasted the wrong answer? I guess the point about your passport not being stamped with (irish) immigration permission stamps is still valid...

I was particularly pleased to hear that a mortgage statement under a spouse's name accompanied with a signed letter is acceptable, as it is worth 50 points under the new Scorecard scheme.

Best wishes.

That is good news