How do you find out if someone's an over stayer?

[prs]

Hi,

is there a specific way to find out if someone's an overstayer?

there seems to be an influx of citizenship rejections for this reason! Even though some if not most of these applicants were in contact with either Home Office or the Police (signing on a weekly basis).

for me personally, my immigration history is very vague and all over the place for various reasons and I'm sure there are other applicants in the same boat.

So, how would someone find out if they have been an overstayer?

clearly, being an overstayer seems to go against the BC application! So, if someone was/is an overstayer, they shouldn't have been given an ILR and should've been removed from this country!

This overstayer stamp seems to be a 'new' and 'easy' choice for the HO to reject applications!

[CR001]

Rejecting applications for being an overstayer in the 10 years prior to applying for citizenship is not "new". It has been in place for a number of years now.

If you are worried, apply for a subject access request to understand what information UKVI hold on you.

Also, people don't always post their full circumstances on the forum, so don't interrupt everything posted as fact or truth. There is frequently a lot of key information not disclosed.

Additionally, don't confuse the different routes to ILR with the requirements for citizenship. Simply "signing on" or being "known to HO" doesn't give an overatayer legal status in the UK. Those who get ILR, would have regularised their stay and met the residency requirement for ilr. Years ago, there was an ILR route based on 14 years residence which did not require valid visa for the 14 years.

So before judging things and saying people should be deported, bear in mind that there are many immigration routes/rules and circumstances that might not appear straightforward to the general public or general forum members.

[secret.simon]

is there a specific way to find out if someone's an overstayer?

The person should know their own immigration history. Except if an EEA citizen before Brexit, one can't immigrate to the UK without paying attention to crossing the ts' and dotting the is'. All non-EEA migrants would have made at least one and possibly multiple applications to the Home Office.

You can of course make an SAR to the Home Office to see what the Home Office has on record for you (which I believe that you are in the midst of doing anyway).

for me personally, my immigration history is very vague and all over the place for various reasons and I'm sure there are other applicants in the same boat.

Immigration is one area of life that I would strongly emphasise and encourage meticulous and immaculate record keeping. Even though I naturalised almost ten years ago, I still have a copy of all the documentation submitted for all applications made throughout my immigration history and I can still revisit the entire journey. I find it surprising and astonishing that others treate it so casually, almost as if it is a passing thought.

So, how would someone find out if they have been an overstayer?

As you have done. Make Subject Access Request to the Home Office.

clearly, being an overstayer seems to go against the BC application! So, if someone was/is an overstayer, they shouldn't have been given an ILR and should've been removed from this country!

Naturalisation and ILR are different processes under different laws and rules. Do not confuse the two.

One could have been an overstayer in the past, but meet the requirements for ILR and yet (because of the overstay) fail the good character requirements for naturalisation.

This overstayer stamp seems to be a 'new' and 'easy' choice for the HO to reject applications!

The Good Character requirement has been a part of naturalisation law since at least 1981 and possibly since 1948. And it is not a solely British practice either. The US and Canada, among other countries, have good character requirements. And Indian law explicitly blocks naturalisation for "illegal migrants". It does seem strange and bizarre that countries are not wild about giving citizenship to people who don't follow the law.

The reason it appears to be "new" and "easy" is because earlier only the applicant used to know of their rejections, whereas now it is discussed on public forums like these and on social media. It is not "new" and "easy", it is merely more visible.

[prs]

Rejecting applications for being an overstayer in the 10 years prior to applying for citizenship is not "new". It has been in place for a number of years now.

If you are worried, apply for a subject access request to understand what information UKVI hold on you.

Yes, done this yesterday. Lets see what they got on their records. I've been here since 2003 so a lot has been done since and I lost track records.

Also, people don't always post their full circumstances on the forum, so don't interrupt everything posted as fact or truth. There is frequently a lot of key information not disclosed.

True

Additionally, don't confuse the different routes to ILR with the requirements for citizenship. Simply "signing on" or being "known to HO" doesn't give an overatayer legal status in the UK. Those who get ILR, would have regularised their stay and met the residency requirement for ilr. Years ago, there was an ILR route based on 14 years residence which did not require valid visa for the 14 years.

No, I'm not confusing anything. I know they are totally different things. However, whats confusing is that they say being an overstayer is a crime in this country and therefore the person should be removed/deported/go back. So, if they know "we" are overstayers and where "we" are at the time, then why not remove us BEFORE they give us ILR status?! in which case, they will save us and themselves a lot of hassle and headaches a few years down the line!!

Dangling a carrot pops into my mind tbf.

This subject has many grey areas but the most confusing part is what I mentioned above.



So before judging things and saying people should be deported, bear in mind that there are many immigration routes/rules and circumstances that might not appear straightforward to the general public or general forum members.


I am including myself into this scenario. I am not judging anyone! Yes, agreed. there are many immigration routes/rules and circumstances and I consider my own application is one of those complex and confusing ones too. However, this complexity is not due to the nature of my application BUT to incompetency of a government body in this country.

I can mention many problems that the HO has caused me personally since I have arrived in this country.

But the most important issue that they caused was loosing my BRP card back in 2006/07 (can't remember the year exactly) and when they were asked and confronted, they blatantly lied and denied the fact that they have had my BRP card in their possession. Even though the Card was sent to them 1st class signed for via Royal Mail and someone physically signed for it when they received it.


Stephen Doughty MP, who sits on the home affairs select committee, raised the issue back in 2013, said: “The Home Office has a shocking history of losing documents from passports to identity papers which I flagged up as early as 2013.

[prs]

Naturalisation and ILR are different processes under different laws and rules. Do not confuse the two.

You see, we could be keep repeating the same sentence until the cows come home.

I do know and I do understand the differences. 1 being a right and 1 being a privilege etc...

However, the question still remains on why they allow ME to stay in this country if I have committed such a "huge" crime (overstayed) that now they might or might not reject my BC application because of it?!

they know where I was... they know who I was... they know what I have been doing prior to giving me an ILR status... and they know any and every ILR holder will "apply" for their BC at some point...

So why not either sort this mess out and stop with this long winded process once and for all and stop dishing out these ILR statuses or simply tweak the law (as they do when it suits them) so when someone has given an ILR, their BC application cannot be rejected for being an |overstayer"?!?

You see where I am going with this?

[secret.simon]

So why not either sort this mess out and stop with this long winded process once and for all and stop dishing out these ILR statuses or simply tweak the law (as they do when it suits them) so when someone has given an ILR, their BC application cannot be rejected for being an |overstayer"?!?

Now, who wants to drop Priti Patel an email? She may be so thrilled with this idea that she may have the person given a BEM. It is encouraging for such ideas to be given on an immigration forum.

[secret.simon]

I do know and I do understand the differences. 1 being a right and 1 being a privilege etc...

Not really. Both ILR and naturalisation are grants of the Home Office and it is perfectly possible for the Home Office to change the rules for ILR to include a good character requirement there as well. I am sure that they will thank you for that idea.

However, the question still remains on why they allow ME to stay in this country if I have committed such a "huge" crime (overstayed) that now they might or might not reject my BC application because of it?!

Thay may think that denying you citizenship is punishment enough. Or they may not have thought of the alternative that you suggested.

they know any and every ILR holder will "apply" for their BC at some point...

Not necessarily true. There have been cases on these forums where people have not applied for naturalisation after ILR, generally because doing so would mean that they lose their original citizenship, which they wish to retain (for whatever reason). There have been such cases on these forums from places as diverse as Germany, India and Malaysia.

And why have you put "apply" in quotes?

You see, we could be keep repeating the same sentence until the cows come home.

But of course we must. The cows are sacred and we must wait for them to come home.

[prs]

So why not either sort this mess out and stop with this long winded process once and for all and stop dishing out these ILR statuses or simply tweak the law (as they do when it suits them) so when someone has given an ILR, their BC application cannot be rejected for being an |overstayer"?!?

Now, who wants to drop Priti Patel an email? She may be so thrilled with this idea that she may have the person given a BEM. It is encouraging for such ideas to be given on an immigration forum.

she aint that pretty anyway LOL


Joke aside, I know what you mean though.

But when you put yourself in my shoes and wait for 18/19 years for this moment and realise that there's a big possibility that your BC application might get rejected for something that was completely out of your control, then you will feel the same disappointment as I do now.

Injustice and lies and money grabbing in this country is beyond my wildest imagination.

And I feel like I've given up hope in humanity after living here for this long! I feel like if someone told me back in 2006/7/8/9 that this is whats gonna happen to me, I would've planned differently. I might have migrated to another country... I don't know what I would've done..

my father used to work in London back in the 70s and he used to tell me that UK is amazing... such a great country... this and the other... Little he knew that the UK he knew was long dead.


My fiancee is British and she's born and bred here. She always tells me that I'm dead inside and I always tell her that I wasn't born this way. I feel like this country has slowly but surely turned me into this person that I am today...

anyway, rant over...

[prs]

I do know and I do understand the differences. 1 being a right and 1 being a privilege etc...

Not really. Both ILR and naturalisation are grants of the Home Office and it is perfectly possible for the Home Office to change the rules for ILR to include a good character requirement there as well. I am sure that they will thank you for that idea.

However, the question still remains on why they allow ME to stay in this country if I have committed such a "huge" crime (overstayed) that now they might or might not reject my BC application because of it?!

Thay may think that denying you citizenship is punishment enough. Or they may not have thought of the alternative that you suggested.

they know any and every ILR holder will "apply" for their BC at some point...

Not necessarily true. There have been cases on these forums where people have not applied for naturalisation after ILR, generally because doing so would mean that they lose their original citizenship, which they wish to retain (for whatever reason). There have been such cases on these forums from places as diverse as Germany, India and Malaysia.

And why have you put "apply" in quotes?

You see, we could be keep repeating the same sentence until the cows come home.

But of course we must. The cows are sacred and we must wait for them to come home.

I haven't given them any idea. and lets stick to the present time as there's no such a law as of yet. we can think about it when they make it a law officially

we are not talking about scattered cases here and there... we are talking about majority. and the majority of ILR holder would want to get their BC.

why should I be "punished" for something that is completely out of my control?! Punishment for what?!

I've put it in the quotes because I believe it should be a given and not a costly and long winded process that in some cases end up in tears for some of due to rejection and loss of money.

I like cows but I really don't want them in my tiny, rented 2 bed home. thanks but no thanks.

[THO]

Maybe go live in another country then.

The UK is a whole lot better than many poor, awful, backwards, corrupt, misogynistic countries I could mentions, and many of the people on here criticise the UK for things that are far worse in the country they have left, to come live here.

As previously pointed out, if you'd kept full and complete records, you'd perhaps not be in different situation as you'd be able to prove whatever you need to now. Did you take a photo copies or photos of the document you sent off?

[prs]

Maybe go live in another country then.

funny that foreigners in the UK tend to use the same sentence a lot more than the actual British born people.

Also, its a bit too late for me to consider "going and living" in another country considering that I have been here for 19 years and came here as a minor and now I have children born in this country and a family!

The UK is a whole lot better than many poor, awful, backwards, corrupt, misogynistic countries I could mentions, and many of the people on here criticise the UK for things that are far worse in the country they have left, to come live here.

I cannot comment about any of those countries that you've mentioned as I currently live here and have been living here without any absence for 19 years. This country is all I know... Judging from the flag in your avi, you are probably from one of those countries that you've mentioned so I would imagine that the UK is your best option.

As previously pointed out, if you'd kept full and complete records, you'd perhaps not be in different situation as you'd be able to prove whatever you need to now. Did you take a photo copies or photos of the document you sent off?

I do have 19 years worth.