Citizenship application form issue

[meself2]

Even if you rent a room with a homeowner you must have a contract - if not just create one with the homeowner, problem solved. You do not have to be registered with RTB.

It does not matter if you home shopping paying online. They asking for bank statements to see your transaction activities on your bank statements and maybe your salary also.

Might have to disagree with you on the above two. Taken straight from their "proof of residency" table:
"Rent agreement / registered with the local authority/ AHB / PTB" - has to be registered somewhere that is approved by gov.
"Credit card statements: For each of the required number of years - annually Six consecutive months" - "Must record a minimum of three POS transactions (with ROI or NI addresses ) per month. "

[Nala2021]

Even if you rent a room with a homeowner you must have a contract - if not just create one with the homeowner, problem solved. You do not have to be registered with RTB.

It does not matter if you home shopping paying online. They asking for bank statements to see your transaction activities on your bank statements and maybe your salary also.

Might have to disagree with you on the above two. Taken straight from their "proof of residency" table:
"Rent agreement / registered with the local authority/ AHB / PTB" - has to be registered somewhere that is approved by gov.
"Credit card statements: For each of the required number of years - annually Six consecutive months" - "Must record a minimum of three POS transactions (with ROI or NI addresses ) per month. "

I think individuals may have an issue if the rental agreement needs to be registered with the RTB - especially because tenant rights remain the same whether the property is registered or not (i.e. the tenant can bring a dispute to RTB whether the tenancy is registered or not) - and more so because of the horrendous rental situation where quite frankly, you will take any house you can. I highly doubt that individuals will be immediately getting in their landlords' faces to get the tenancy registered and start throwing legal issues around like 'late penalties' and such. In any case, I think it is the responsibility of the landlord to register, and not the tenant's. Moreover, a rental agreement on its own is a legally binding document and so, in theory, it should be enough to prove lawful tenancy and residency of someone applying for citizenship.

[liminal]

At least for me this point system makes things more difficult. Lots of documents I used as proof of residency is not in this list (internet bills, letters related to my Stamp 1 and 4...). I don't have a car, credit card, gas supplier, medical insurance, never been to a doctor here...

They still point that you can send a Letter from Employment for example on the form but is not on the scorecard.

P60 and bank statements 120 + rent 50 thats already 170.

Letter from Employment - is there #1 at 70 points.

I am not sure where are you seeing that but the first item in the table is P60 / Employment Detail Summary / Notice of Assessments. There is no "Letter from Employment" as such in that table.

It says Letter from Employment in the form only under " If your application is based on marriage to or being the civil partner of an Irish citizen" but not in the other categories. That is very confusing.

Letter from Employment and Employment Detail Summary is the same thing - Both confirms your employment from/to and salary, etc.

Employment Detail Summary is an end of year report of employment and taxes for PAYE employees which you can access through the revenue myAccount. I doubt a letter from an employer would be accepted for this purpose. It seems they're trying to streamline the process by only allowing official tax documents which can be easily checked and referenced rather than accepting a letter then needing to spend time to verify it's authenticity.

P60 + bank statements + rent is great, if you're a PAYE employee, who uses their card to pay for items at point of sale at least 3 times each month, and has leased an entire home with their name on the tenancy agreement which has been registered with the RTB.
If you do most of your shopping online (requirement is card must be presented at physical POS), and rent a room from a homeowner (no requirement to register the tenancy with RTB) you're bang out of luck with getting those points.

Even if you rent a room with a homeowner you must have a contract - if not just create one with the homeowner, problem solved. You do not have to be registered with RTB.

PAYE or not you are still registered somewhere be in on revenue.ie/ my welfare etc...You must have a PPS. If you are illegal resident then thats a different story.

It does not matter if you home shopping paying online. They asking for bank statements to see your transaction activities on your bank statements and maybe your salary also.

That was the old system, since Jan 1st this year the rules for banks statements are "Must record a minimum of three POS transactions (with ROI or NI addresses ) per month.", a point of sale transaction requires you to be present in a shop where the card is used (hence point of sale).
For accommodation since 1st Jan this year rules are "Rent agreement registered with the local authority/ AHB / PTB", that's different from the simple contract with the homeowner which was allowed last year.

[johnpromise01]

Does anyone have an idea what "Department of Social welfare annual statement " means? How will I get any statement dated for the past 5 years now if I never had them earlier?

I think this is for people who receive some sort of payment from the State
Since you need to go into post office and collect the money in person afaik, thats a good proof for them that you were here (and obvs that's government issued as well)
But I assume not many people on this forum will have it

You can go on mywelfare.ie and request. If you never claim the annual statement will show that.

is it this one you're talking about?
https://services.mywelfare.ie/en/topics ... statement/

that's the thing, I doubt they'll be satisfied with an empty statement, which you'll get if you never got any money from State
but in lots of visas if you do get money from them - you're a burden
so it's pretty much out of reach for most applicants

Carer's allowance and Domiciliary care allowance will not affect citizenship application.

[Nala2021]

Could someone please define what it means that welfare will 'affect' citizenship?

[mentalmind]

It simply means that if you are getting money from government as part of welfare such as jobseekers benefit or allowance, sick benefits aka showing signs that you are being burden to country, it doesn't reflect a good image on your citizenship application. They want you to pay all the taxes but not claim anything on social welfare side. And they say/claim this will look bad for your application.

On the other hand, one of my ex-colleagues lost his job right after he applied for citizenship. The whole application took 2 years and he was unemployed during this time and he was getting jobseeker allowance from government. But he still got his citizenship approval. So I doubt if it actually has impact on your application or just some tale.

[meself2]

I think individuals may have an issue if the rental agreement needs to be registered with the RTB - especially because tenant rights remain the same whether the property is registered or not (i.e. the tenant can bring a dispute to RTB whether the tenancy is registered or not) - and more so because of the horrendous rental situation where quite frankly, you will take any house you can. I highly doubt that individuals will be immediately getting in their landlords' faces to get the tenancy registered and start throwing legal issues around like 'late penalties' and such. In any case, I think it is the responsibility of the landlord to register, and not the tenant's. Moreover, a rental agreement on its own is a legally binding document and so, in theory, it should be enough to prove lawful tenancy and residency of someone applying for citizenship.

As a person, I would agree with you on that, it deffo doesn't look good if you'll chase your landlord to register your application straight away and such. But, unfortunately, these are the rules (for now, at least). They have a ton of stuff to add/change (for example, the whole young adult route as well as minor one is pretty weird with points system), so maybe thay'll do something about this as well, but, honestly, not very likely

[satgl]

At least for me this point system makes things more difficult. Lots of documents I used as proof of residency is not in this list (internet bills, letters related to my Stamp 1 and 4...). I don't have a car, credit card, gas supplier, medical insurance, never been to a doctor here...

They still point that you can send a Letter from Employment for example on the form but is not on the scorecard.

P60 and bank statements 120 + rent 50 thats already 170.

Letter from Employment - is there #1 at 70 points.

I am not sure where are you seeing that but the first item in the table is P60 / Employment Detail Summary / Notice of Assessments. There is no "Letter from Employment" as such in that table.

It says Letter from Employment in the form only under " If your application is based on marriage to or being the civil partner of an Irish citizen" but not in the other categories. That is very confusing.

Letter from Employment and Employment Detail Summary is the same thing - Both confirms your employment from/to and salary, etc.

Employment Detail Summary is an end of year report of employment and taxes for PAYE employees which you can access through the revenue myAccount. I doubt a letter from an employer would be accepted for this purpose. It seems they're trying to streamline the process by only allowing official tax documents which can be easily checked and referenced rather than accepting a letter then needing to spend time to verify it's authenticity.

P60 + bank statements + rent is great, if you're a PAYE employee, who uses their card to pay for items at point of sale at least 3 times each month, and has leased an entire home with their name on the tenancy agreement which has been registered with the RTB.
If you do most of your shopping online (requirement is card must be presented at physical POS), and rent a room from a homeowner (no requirement to register the tenancy with RTB) you're bang out of luck with getting those points.

Does any one have an idea of documents that demonstrate residency requirements of minors with reference to new point based system?
(1) P60/ Employment detail summary,
(2) Social welfare department letter or
(3) bank statements are not directly

The spreadsheet under residency states (A minimum of one of the three proof's above must be provided for each of the years of residence). Thank you.

[Nala2021]

At some point, applicants have to take a stance on how they will read the Scorecard form. If one doesn't do that, then they cannot have a logical argument running through.

For example (and I will take the RTB dispute here), in the top part of the form, you can see this:

''One of …. P 60 / Employment Detail Summary / Notice of Assessments ''
The use of the '/' here is used in order to separate the choices of governmental paperwork can give to fulfil this requirement.

You can also apply this here:

''Doctor / Hospital attendance record''

In contrast, when the department want to specify the necessary information they want along with the particular paperwork, they use this dash '-' to separate the proof and they info:

''Property tax - proof of payment''

OR

''Credit card statements: For each of the required number of years - annually Six consecutive months''

So, if the '/' is used on the top to show the choices, then the same rule needs to be applied with the Rent agreement issue. A rent agreement is a legal document, and from the tenant's point of view, registering with the RTB is not. However, a tenancy can be registered with the RTB without the need to have a rent agreement. A rent agreement, or contract, is not a legal requirement in the Republic of Ireland. However, when one exists, the same government that has created the Residential Tenancy Acts that the contract actually relies on to exist and be lawful, cannot diminish its existence.

Overall, applying the rules of the use of punctuation above, this then would mean that an applicant can either have a rental agreement, or be registered with the stated authorities.

[mentalmind]

I don't believe rent agreement OR RTB registered tenancy will be an issue while application. As you need to show proof of your address when you renew your residence permit. So if Garda station (or the department in Dublin) is OK with your address proof, then it should be OK with ISD also. Call it rent agreement, bill on your name or whatever you provide as proof of your address should be sufficient to prove that you stayed in Ireland in that particular year.

[fatcat123]

I am not totally sure about few things in this score system. I would like to see if someone can help me on these.

1. If I live in the same apartment for my last 4 years. Can I still use "rent agreement" + proof of 6mths payment for these 4 years? Because I didn't move to a new place, so I do not have new rent agreement every year, should I keep using the same one for each year + 6mths payment each year?

2. Regarding doctor attendance record, I tried to contact my doctor and they do not know how to layout those records for me. Do you know what information should be included in that record? Should it be like my attendance of date or other details each year?

3. If my wife doesn't work but also do not claim benefits at the same time for few years, as she relies on me and we don't want to burden on social system. Therefore, she doesn't have P60 or social welfare annual statement. I don't even know how she can meet 150 points per year. Do you think if tax certificate and P21 would be helpful for this case?

In my opinion, they have now made the requirements so difficult but at the same time do not provide enough examples or information for each required documents. It is more like a guessing game for us. You may understand their requirements in this way, other people may understand in another way.
Also, they seem expect everyone lives in a certain of life. Not everyone is same. Like someone who doesn't work and not claim benefits, then how can they even meet the points?

[trolotron]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. See a lot of good questions here.
I have a simple question, if I send my application for naturalisation this month (January 2022), do I need to provide the proofs of residence for 2022? I presume not, but would be good if someone here can confirm it. Thanks

[meself2]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. See a lot of good questions here.
I have a simple question, if I send my application for naturalisation this month (January 2022), do I need to provide the proofs of residence for 2022? I presume not, but would be good if someone here can confirm it. Thanks

Hey!
As far as I know, a year in terms of residency is not a year per se (as in a year of 2020), but a time of 365/6 days from your stamp, so if you got your last stamp in Nov 2020, you need to provide evidence for time period of Nov 2020 - Nov 2021.

[littlerr]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. See a lot of good questions here.
I have a simple question, if I send my application for naturalisation this month (January 2022), do I need to provide the proofs of residence for 2022? I presume not, but would be good if someone here can confirm it. Thanks

You won't need to now, but they will likely request for some additional documents for 2022 when they start processing your application, which is going to be a few months later, so you should remember to keep some copies with you in case they ask.

[littlerr]

1. If I live in the same apartment for my last 4 years. Can I still use "rent agreement" + proof of 6mths payment for these 4 years? Because I didn't move to a new place, so I do not have new rent agreement every year, should I keep using the same one for each year + 6mths payment each year?

Yes that is the exact requirement. You would likely have only 1 rent agreement for the entirety of your time living in that property.

2. Regarding doctor attendance record, I tried to contact my doctor and they do not know how to layout those records for me. Do you know what information should be included in that record? Should it be like my attendance of date or other details each year?

There isn't a standardised way, but doctors' systems should usually allow them to print out a patient visit history. If that's not the case with your doctor, what you need is a simple grid with visit date and visit reason. Remember to have both your address and your doctor's details (address, medical council register number, official stamp) on it.

3. If my wife doesn't work but also do not claim benefits at the same time for few years, as she relies on me and we don't want to burden on social system. Therefore, she doesn't have P60 or social welfare annual statement. I don't even know how she can meet 150 points per year. Do you think if tax certificate and P21 would be helpful for this case?

Even though this isn't mentioned on INIS's website, yes I believe they are. P21 used to be an alternative means to P60 for the purpose of citizenship applications, as P60 don't always come with an address. This is my personal interpretation though. I expect that INIS will have to revise their scorecard a bit in the coming months.

Like someone who doesn't work and not claim benefits, then how can they even meet the points?

Like what's been suggested by INIS, they will still accept the application, and they will engage with the applicant to try to establish the fact whether they live in the state.

[davebecks]

What's amusing to me is the fact that they keep mentioning that the onus is on us to prove that we've been legally resident in the State and have been continually residing in the state and so on..

But for South Asians like me, there are very few countries where my passport won't be stamped at the airport when I enter a country.
So clearly they can take a look at my passport for immigration stamps at the Dublin airport and if there are no other stamps from any other countries after a certain date, I obviously have been continuously residing in Ireland..
This along with GNIB Card, revenue & bank statements and other proofs like insurance should be enough to prove any sort of legal residency in the state..

[mentalmind]

Just to add my 2 cents here. When you pay for your GP, dentist etc. visit, they should give you invoice as proof of payment. In my opinion this should be enough as proof. As it includes your name, address, date of attendance and service taken (even it says GP visit). As it proves that you were in Ireland at that date physically and attended to your doctor, dentist.

My P60s have address on top of the table, never had any without address on it.