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Some very strange comments here ! Ireland has one of the most ridiculously EASY and liberal criteria , which is no longer justifiable as it is a country that receives more immigration than seeks emigration. It is also at odds with the norms of many countries (5 years is common, but lack of exams are NOT) . Some of the aforementioned nations (not all, obviously) reject Dual Nationality too.mentalmind wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:30 pmJust wanted to rant about the so called "new" scoreboard for applying for citizenship. Full disclaimer, I applied for citizenship in 2021 and yet to hear about the acknowledgement letter.
I believe ISD is trying to make things more challenging/impossible to get citizenship mainly for people came to Ireland as wife/spouse/family of people that is working/studying here. Because simply they could introduce more challenging rules for application, like increasing 5 year residency rule to 8 years or more, or introducing some sort of exam or naturalisation quiz . But this would scare the people away from coming to Ireland in hope of being Irish citizen and they would lose the sweet tax money they are getting from immigrants.
I believe it is totally absurd/meaningless to collect some papers and letters like you are collecting pokemon cards. Revenue does have records of where you are working, for how long you are working and how much salary you have. So it's meaningless to collect P60 or employment history from Revenue.
Same for showing mortgage/rent agreement (that has RTB record). It shouldn't matter if you have your own house and you are paying mortgage or if your landlord is some shady person that doesn't record your tenancy with RTB, or you are house sharing with 5 other people and you don't have any bill under your name. Eventually you have to prove your up to date address to Garda (or relevant department) each year (or every 2-3 years) when you have to renew your IRP/GNIB card.
It shouldn't matter if bills are under your name or if you pay it with cash or by direct debit. Most of the providers doesn't send paper bills anymore and they disappear from online billing system after 2-3 years. It's stupid that you have to save your online bills every time. Also if you are changing providers regularly (to get best price) then you will lose track of your bills. Yes you can ask them for older bills but again this is stupid. And I won't even mention how worthless are those bills with the new scoreboard rules.
ISD/Irish Government can/does access to your Revenue records, immigration history, border history (to see your enter/exit days) and get in contact with UK for similar matters to see if you did smth nasty on their side. As you can forge/provide false documents, this has to be done to be sure that applicant is not providing false information. So it's meaningless and pointless to provide all same information as paper because these information can be checked easily. Or it simply means that ISD doesn't have access to these information and simply relying on what information you provide.
It is absurd to collect documents in folders that gets dusty and have risk of getting lost or being unreadable over years. Border police can check your immigration history just by typing your registration number on your IRP card and see your whole history just in 30 seconds.
So after the all rant, I just believe this is just to make things harder for immigrants while not letting them lose hope of being Irish citizen by naturalisation. And yes I know there are unusual/edge cases which is not straight and can be difficult but I doubt providing fishing license or TV license proof will solve this.
They were not abolished. You all have a profile set up on Revenue . P60 continue to be issued. The method of delivery has changed. You now can access it online, and order it and then print it out yourself or store it in cloud
Correct. Hence you one should get the essentials like bank statements for full years. Excellent proof of regular residency in Ireland (Most current accounts won't have much money in them. But it will show regulars income and outgoing, clearly in Ireland)shpirtshqipe wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:17 pmCan you immagine for one second that INIS will do all the hard work of chasing the above mentioned agencies or chasing the landlord of 5 years ago for example or chasing the person you are house sharing etc etc etc? So what’s implied here is that we simply complete an application form with minimal ID documents and off you go? I think not!!
Yes INIS does conduct necessary searches and validate documents but I highly doubt in my lay person’s opinion that it does it for every single application and document.
Increasing years is much worst in my opinion when registering yourself with institutions or service providers and get formal correspondences is much easier especially in Ireland. This country in comparison to some other EU states (take Greece or Italy) is much more paper orientated so it isn’t rocket science. Off the top of my head places like supermarket loyalty cards, newspaper subscriptions, mobile phones, good old credit Union etc etc are a few of may places to mention that will give you formal written correspondence (I’m talking in dire cases where people can’t get the “high value evidence i.e. bank statement, rental contract etc).
P60 where formal and official documents so I don’t see the absurdity of being asked to produce them
I am not being difficult here as like most of the people here have gone (still going) through the process bud let’s be realistic about this. In my personal experience I’d much rather go through the Irish process than the crazy informal system I had to deal with in my country of birth for simple things let alone the right to citizenship
No system is perfect
There can be genuine incidents where one is out of the country in one year, that could not be helped . and then the rest of the years, everything seems okay. eg health issues; attending to ill parents; work requirements. It would be nasty and unfair for an applicant to be judged and punished without first being given a chance to explain himself. There must be some leeway. Citizenship is discretionary.lovebino wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:48 amI absolutely agree with Mentalmind's opinion.
But, if an application cannot provide required documents, from my understanding if the applicant cannot satisfy 150 Points for any year, engagement with the Department will need to be taken, and gain, I understood that the application will need to provide a cover letter to explain why.
This is quite new and we are still unsure how it would work in reality.
Nonsense ? What? Facts?mentalmind wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:46 amSorry breakfast, I don't have patience to read all of your nonsense. If State wants to check if I am continuous residence in Ireland, they can simply check my records of entry & exit of country. Period.
There is nothing nonsense about explaining to you Data Protection Rules and the limitations that the Department have in checking your data. It is not my fault that you are too ignorant to understand . Patience? More like too ignorant to respondmentalmind wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:46 amSorry breakfast, I don't have patience to read all of your nonsense. If State wants to check if I am continuous residence in Ireland, they can simply check my records of entry & exit of country. Period.
You really need to get some legal advice on that so you can be 100% sure, and be told what kind of rights you have and what alternative proof (if needed at all) is necessary for your mortgage issue. Deeds are different to contracts and so on. You may get opinions here, but unless someone has been in the same, common situation like yours, you may be misled.
Deed ? ABSOLUTELY . The greatest evidence of ownership of property
The DEED , unlike the contract, proves that you have title. Contract proves an agreement to transfer title.
First of all you are rude for not taking the time to read the other person’s point of view even if it differs from yours. One could say the same about your replies so be respectful and have some decorum!mentalmind wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:46 amSorry breakfast, I don't have patience to read all of your nonsense. If State wants to check if I am continuous residence in Ireland, they can simply check my records of entry & exit of country. Period.
Paying taxes is the norm and obligation in ANY country and us immigrants included are not “doing them a favour” to this rule so your argument is deeply flawed my friend.userDoesNotExist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:32 amWhat people are forgetting or ignoring here is that a lot of highly skilled workers pay a lot of taxes (plus the citizenship process value) waiting for this citizenship. I am non-EU and could have chosen any other country to move to but decided on Ireland because it would be easier to get citizenship and I would never seriously consider living in a country without it. So for that people saying "It is a benefit or honor" - Well is not that simple.
Sorry I was rude at him as he was rude at me. His tone is just aggressive, even thou he is or might be correct on points, there are different ways to express yourself, and he chose the most aggressive one.shpirtshqipe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:55 amFirst of all you are rude for not taking the time to read the other person’s point of view even if it differs from yours. One could say the same about your replies so be respectful and have some decorum!mentalmind wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:46 amSorry breakfast, I don't have patience to read all of your nonsense. If State wants to check if I am continuous residence in Ireland, they can simply check my records of entry & exit of country. Period.
Back on the discussion at hand…
In order for INIS to conduct such searches they need the supporting evidence presented to them. The only way for them to do so is dependent on the quality of evidence submitted by the applicant. Any checks they need to do is at their discretion. Let’s not forget it is the applicant who is asking to become an Irish citizen so frankly the government has little obligation to bend backwards and do all the work for you. Whether we like it or not the onus remains with the applicant to submit all the supporting evidence and not the other way around.
Best Regards
He never mentioned doing an honor. Simple as that, all EU countries wants to collect taxes from non-EU individuals and in return countries want people to not stay in their country forever and just go back. This way they keep the economy going in their country without having the burden of having new citizens therefore increasing the load on social welfare.shpirtshqipe wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:03 amPaying taxes is the norm and obligation in ANY country and us immigrants included are not “doing them a favour” to this rule so your argument is deeply flawed my friend.userDoesNotExist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:32 amWhat people are forgetting or ignoring here is that a lot of highly skilled workers pay a lot of taxes (plus the citizenship process value) waiting for this citizenship. I am non-EU and could have chosen any other country to move to but decided on Ireland because it would be easier to get citizenship and I would never seriously consider living in a country without it. So for that people saying "It is a benefit or honor" - Well is not that simple.
It absolutely is a benefit because the freedom one gets (talking non EU here developing countries like mine) whose ease of moving anywhere around the world without the need of visas and more bureaucracies…well it is worth it. That’s just an example off the top of my head
Regards
No one is ignoring the fact that "a lot of highly skilled" workers are paying a lot of tax (Most of them are from within the EU , and they do not need Irish Citizenship )userDoesNotExist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:32 amWhat people are forgetting or ignoring here is that a lot of highly skilled workers pay a lot of taxes (plus the citizenship process value) waiting for this citizenship. I am non-EU and could have chosen any other country to move to but decided on Ireland because it would be easier to get citizenship and I would never seriously consider living in a country without it. So for that people saying "It is a benefit or honor" - Well is not that simple.