Mysterious criminal convictions

[Moon2021]

Hi everyone
I am in very strange situation I applied for citizenship application in April 2021.
Few weeks back I applied for UK visit visa but my UK visa got refused the reason they gave me in the refusal letter that I have criminal convictions in UK in 2015 and 2016 I didn't disclosed them in my application but the problem is I never knew about this convictions and the funny thing is I was living in Ireland in 2015 and 2016 then how I got this convictions and I have never done anything such like that while I was living in England that will make these convictions now I am worried about my Irish citizenship application.
I don't know what to do about all this mess.
Please if anyone know what step should I take to clear my name or find more about these convictions.
Thank you

[Moon2021]

You have signed your visa application form to say that the information in it is true; within your application you have stated that you have never had a criminal conviction in the UK. However, home office records show that you were convicted of offenses in 2015 and 2016. I am therefore satisfied that false representations "were made in your application. Your application is therefore refused under Part 9.7.1 (a) of the Immigration Rules. I am satisfied that you have made a false representation and you did so with an intention to deceive. I have therefore found that you used deception in your application and I am refusing your application under paragraph 9.7.2 of Part 9 of the Immigration Rules. This means that any future entry clearance applications may also be refused under the Immigration Rules for a period of up to 10 years depending on the type of application you make. The period of 10 years starts from the date that the deception was used in this application for a visa."

That's the refusal letter what I got from UK.

[lovebino]

You could request a police cert from the UK to see what is that if you are unsure. I did this in Ireland before submitting my Irish citizenship application. If it is really there in your case, I would consider to write to the department to explain. Maybe other people in this forum might give a better idea.

[littlerr]

Did they tell you what kind of convictions? How many convictions? Are they traffic offences (parking offences, speeding etc) or anything else? You may be able to get away with one or two minor traffic offences but anything other than that would raise a big red flag.

First of all, date of conviction is different from date of offence. If you, for example, received a speeding ticket, and you decided to ignore it, they would send you a second ticket in a few months. If you ignored it again, you get a summon to court in another few months’ time, and the court date may be another few months away. This means, you may not get a court date until up to a year later. For certain crimes it may take even longer to get a court date.

It is very likely that you had some offences back in 2013 - 2014, and you somehow didn’t receive the NIP (have you always been keeping police/immigration/authority up to date of your current address?), and subsequently was summoned to the court and was convicted in absentia, after you have moved to Ireland.

If you have all evidences present, you may be able to argue that you did not receive the summon from the court as you have already moved abroad, but what’s more worrying here is the fact that it mentioned ‘offences’ instead of ‘one offence’. That indicates that you had been in trouble with the authority more than once. That will almost certainly have a significant impact to all of your future visas and naturalisation applications.

[Moon2021]

Thank you for your reply
I never had any type of trouble with police or with anyone so I don't know for what they convicted me.I don't have any idea at all what is these convictions are.

Anyway can please someone advice me how I can get a clear copy of report of these convictions from UK because I need find out first then I can do something about it.

Thank you

[Moon2021]

Did they tell you what kind of convictions? How many convictions? Are they traffic offences (parking offences, speeding etc) or anything else? You may be able to get away with one or two minor traffic offences but anything other than that would raise a big red flag.

First of all, date of conviction is different from date of offence. If you, for example, received a speeding ticket, and you decided to ignore it, they would send you a second ticket in a few months. If you ignored it again, you get a summon to court in another few months’ time, and the court date may be another few months away. This means, you may not get a court date until up to a year later. For certain crimes it may take even longer to get a court date.

It is very likely that you had some offences back in 2013 - 2014, and you somehow didn’t receive the NIP (have you always been keeping police/immigration/authority up to date of your current address?), and subsequently was summoned to the court and was convicted in absentia, after you have moved to Ireland.

If you have all evidences present, you may be able to argue that you did not receive the summon from the court as you have already moved abroad, but what’s more worrying here is the fact that it mentioned ‘offences’ instead of ‘one offence’. That indicates that you had been in trouble with the authority more than once. That will almost certainly have a significant impact to all of your future visas and naturalisation applications.

Please read this attached refusal letter from UK.

The decision
"I have refused your application for a visit visa because I am satisfied that Part V3 and Parts 9.7.1 and 9.7.2 of the Immigration Rules apply. Under Part 9.7.1 of the Immigration Rules a person may be refused entry clearance if false representations are made, or false documents or false information submitted (whether or not relevant to the application, and whether or not to the applicant’s knowledge); or relevant facts are not disclosed. A false document includes:  a genuine document which has been altered or tampered with;  a counterfeit document (one that is completely false);  a genuine document which is being used by an impostor;  a genuine document which has been fraudulently obtained or issued;  a genuine document which contains a falsified or counterfeit visa endorsement. You have signed your visa application form to say that the information in it is true; within your application you have stated that you have never had a criminal conviction in the UK. However, home office records show that you were convicted of offenses in 2015 and 2016. I am therefore satisfied that false representations were made in your application. Your application is therefore refused under Part 9.7.1 (a) of the Immigration Rules. I am satisfied that you have made a false representation and you did so with an intention to deceive. I have therefore found that you used deception in your application and I am refusing your application under paragraph 9.7.2 of Part 9 of the Immigration Rules. This means that any future entry clearance applications may also be refused under the Immigration Rules for a period of up to 10 years depending on the type of application you make. The period of 10 years starts from the date that the deception was used in this application for a visa"

In this letter they didn't tell me nothing about which type of convictions are these and I also I was wondering I was declared refugee in 2019 in Ireland and got my residence permit so my question is did the IPO didn't check my history in UK before declaring me refugee here?

It's maybe the case that the UK home office confused my record with someone else with similar name like me.
Now I just to know please how I can get the report from UK so I can try sort something out

Thank you

[Moon2021]

You could request a police cert from the UK to see what is that if you are unsure. I did this in Ireland before submitting my Irish citizenship application. If it is really there in your case, I would consider to write to the department to explain. Maybe other people in this forum might give a better idea.

Can you please tell me where I need to apply to receive this UK report.
Thank you

[lovebino]

I did a search for the UK and you might apply from here. Please check it again. https://www.acro.police.uk/Police-Certi ... ertificate

For my case, I applied for an FOI of myself held by Garda, just to see if I would do something wrong that I might not be aware of.

You could request a police cert from the UK to see what is that if you are unsure. I did this in Ireland before submitting my Irish citizenship application. If it is really there in your case, I would consider to write to the department to explain. Maybe other people in this forum might give a better idea.

Can you please tell me where I need to apply to receive this UK report.
Thank you

[nisi]

You probably want to make a Subject Access Request from https://www.acro.police.uk/Subject-Access-Online.aspx which should tell you everything the police hold about you, rather than a police certificate (which is intended for use for applying for a visa/citizenship for a country other than the UK).

[Moon2021]

You probably want to make a Subject Access Request from https://www.acro.police.uk/Subject-Access-Online.aspx which should tell you everything the police hold about you, rather than a police certificate (which is intended for use for applying for a visa/citizenship for a country other than the UK).

Thank you

[edengarden]

May be you have had any civil matter and they are confusing it with the criminal ones. Also may be somebody have used your details in which case you are not at fault at all. I was also wondering whether CCJ's or civil matters while in UK do have an effect when applying for Irish naturalization?

[Jumbo Breakfast Role]

Hi everyone
I am in very strange situation I applied for citizenship application in April 2021.
Few weeks back I applied for UK visit visa but my UK visa got refused the reason they gave me in the refusal letter that I have criminal convictions in UK in 2015 and 2016 I didn't disclosed them in my application but the problem is I never knew about this convictions and the funny thing is I was living in Ireland in 2015 and 2016 then how I got this convictions and I have never done anything such like that while I was living in England that will make these convictions now I am worried about my Irish citizenship application.
I don't know what to do about all this mess.
Please if anyone know what step should I take to clear my name or find more about these convictions.
Thank you

I do not think the Irish State has any capacity to even enquire about your behaviour in the UK , unless it is already publicly known (in the papers) .

However, if you feel that you have an inaccurate record in the UK, you should contact a lawyer and get that amended. One might have been in another country at the time of a conviction (normally countries like Ireland and UK do not convict in absence ) , are you sure that you never came to the adverse attention of the police eg road traffic matters ? There can often be a time gap between arrest and charge and the date of conviction

The UK would have their version of Freedom Of Information and their versions of Data Protection data requests. Seek them out on your records.

UK would also give upon request a certificate confirming all , if any, criminal records

They have your real name , age etc ?

It is one thing to be accused of failure to disclose, but another to claim that you cause deception.

Where you aware of any possible court case before you left ?

Is it possible someone else used your identity ?

[OneWorld2122]

Why do you thing Ireland or Garda don’t have capacity to check criminal charges in UK ?

There are majority of applications coming from Northern Ireland and UK and you think they get citizenship even without criminal checks …. Really ??

[Jumbo Breakfast Role]

Why do you thing Ireland or Garda don’t have capacity to check criminal charges in UK ?

There are majority of applications coming from Northern Ireland and UK and you think they get citizenship even without criminal checks …. Really ??

You conflate applications for naturalisation with applications for passports. Observe:

1. The Northern Irish people are going straight to passport office and not the INIS / ISD to apply. They are not applying under Naturalisation . Why?

EVERYONE born in the North (I mean those whose parents don't fall foul of the citizenship rule) are Irish as of birth. Nordies , even the loyalists, can get their passport in the same way as me and other Irish people.

2. With regard to the Brits, the vast majority of these people are applying for PASSPORTS and not naturalisation on the basis of Irish Descent .

Once they have the documentary proof, which may include registration at the Foreign Birth Registrar, they are going straight for applications of passports

The vast vast vast majority of these British people (ie people from Great Britain ie Scotland, Wales and England, are applying on the basis of their parents or grand parent


3. Good point about the Nordies and security issues - the Gardai would have notes, files and record on ANY Northern that has come to their attention for obvious security reasons (one strong suit of the Gardaí and Intelligence branch, they know their stuff on the north )

4. The INIS make the initial enquiries and then the GNIB/Gardai

They will consult with the Gardaí regarding criminal record in Ireland . It would not normally come to their mind that they should also enquire via Interpol , to check other countries (resources, times etc ) , unless there were warrants for your arrests/ extradition. - Lack of resources and man power - but do not take that as a hint to fail to disclose one's true record home or abroad !!!

The application form does ask " Have you ever committed any offences against the laws of Ireland or any overseas country?

I doubt the cops check everything ( I have it on good terms that that is the case, alas , its hearsay )

Either way, regardless, the person should speak with a lawyer in the UK immediately. If the records are wrong, they should correct them - bear in mind one might want to travel to the UK for a visit etc in the future. (we don't need visas to go to the UK, but that might change)

If they are correct, you need to disclose the information to ISD but you need to have accurate information

[Jumbo Breakfast Role]

Why do you thing Ireland or Garda don’t have capacity to check criminal charges in UK ?

There are majority of applications coming from Northern Ireland and UK and you think they get citizenship even without criminal checks …. Really ??

Most of the applicants from Ni and UK are Entitled to Irish citizenship as of birth and so are going straight to making applications for passports

[Moon2021]

Hi everyone
I am in very strange situation I applied for citizenship application in April 2021.
Few weeks back I applied for UK visit visa but my UK visa got refused the reason they gave me in the refusal letter that I have criminal convictions in UK in 2015 and 2016 I didn't disclosed them in my application but the problem is I never knew about this convictions and the funny thing is I was living in Ireland in 2015 and 2016 then how I got this convictions and I have never done anything such like that while I was living in England that will make these convictions now I am worried about my Irish citizenship application.
I don't know what to do about all this mess.
Please if anyone know what step should I take to clear my name or find more about these convictions.
Thank you

I do not think the Irish State has any capacity to even enquire about your behaviour in the UK , unless it is already publicly known (in the papers) .

However, if you feel that you have an inaccurate record in the UK, you should contact a lawyer and get that amended. One might have been in another country at the time of a conviction (normally countries like Ireland and UK do not convict in absence ) , are you sure that you never came to the adverse attention of the police eg road traffic matters ? There can often be a time gap between arrest and charge and the date of conviction

The UK would have their version of Freedom Of Information and their versions of Data Protection data requests. Seek them out on your records.

UK would also give upon request a certificate confirming all , if any, criminal records

They have your real name , age etc ?

It is one thing to be accused of failure to disclose, but another to claim that you cause deception.

Where you aware of any possible court case before you left ?

Is it possible someone else used your identity ?

I have applied online on acro UK website for subject access report so in that report I will find out in detail what these convictions are.

I had no problem with law in UK I was only once arrested in 2010 in mistaken identity but released the next day after that no problem till I left UK in 2015.

I believe someone has used my identity hopefully I will clear my name right now the home office have banned me for applying for any visa for 10 years because I didn't disclosed these convictions.

[Moon2021]

Hi just to let you guys know I received my subject access report from England I am shock by what's in that report.

I have around 6 convictions on my name including sex offences bar orders and few traffic offences and I was jailed in 2016 for 20 weeks.

But it's not me because I was living in Ireland since 2015 now it's a big task to remove all this information because there are around 6 different police force involved.
Good luck to me

[easylad]

If it is 100% true that it wasn't you, the following one if two cases would have happened,
1) You have a common name
Or 2) You are a victim of identity fraud

Like the folks said, you should reach out to the UK Metropolitan Police for a criminal background check to launch an appeal.

[Moon2021]

If it is 100% true that it wasn't you, the following one if two cases would have happened,
1) You have a common name
Or 2) You are a victim of identity fraud

Like the folks said, you should reach out to the UK Metropolitan Police for a criminal background check to launch an appeal.

I have started the process contacted met police London now waiting to hear from them.
Thank you for you reply

[Jumbo Breakfast Role]

If it is 100% true that it wasn't you, the following one if two cases would have happened,
1) You have a common name
Or 2) You are a victim of identity fraud

Like the folks said, you should reach out to the UK Metropolitan Police for a criminal background check to launch an appeal.

I have started the process contacted met police London now waiting to hear from them.
Thank you for you reply

Get a suitable qualified criminal lawyer registered to practice in England , first ! Do not do this on your own