New scoreboard approach is foolish

[Jumbo Breakfast Role]

[/quote]

Sorry I was rude at him as he was rude at me. His tone is just aggressive, even thou he is or might be correct on points, there are different ways to express yourself, and he chose the most aggressive one.

INIS doesn't conduct searches. Garda does, and as an applicant you sign e-vetting form, and declaration that says "I allow Garda to search my all history". And you give them a list of the addresses you lived thru your whole life. So practically, Garda has permission & power to do all background search about it. And I am 100% sure that they do check your background. So either you list or do not list everything, Garda will still check your background.

Besides, this was just an example apart with the other things that I have to declare again even thou Ireland / Irish police does know and aware.

Dismantling your ill informed claims is not being rude. It seeks to prevent other people falling into a false trap set by you due to a badly mistaken belief as to your entitlements. Facts do not care for your feelings

Your tone and attitude was disgraceful. You are under the very wrong impression as to what your rights are with regard to applications such as this

You would have responded if you could sniff out from my statement anything that you though was wrong. You did not , because you could not. Labeling it as nonsense was laughably arrogant.

Give a bit more thought to your rants if you have issues with your statements being taken apart and if your ego can not take it !

There was no aggression here. I assure you, if I was minded to express myself aggressively and address you in the manner that you actually did deserve, it was be very obvious. You are just misusing words because you needlessly got your feelings hurt . Grow up

[userDoesNotExist]

Jumbo, I did not disagree with any of your points. As you said, that is capitalism, and many people treat a country as a company. They will go where they can have a better life. I am saying that a country can do all the things you said, but I do not believe it is that SIMPLE since that could hurt them in the long term. If you think a country does not need NON-EU people, you can also look at the doctors here. Why would countries have work permits in the first place? Also, men, you are super passive-aggressive. Just look at a psychologist or something like that. You may need to check this anger inside you.

Cheers and peace!

[Jumbo Breakfast Role]

[

Sorry I was rude at him as he was rude at me. His tone is just aggressive, even thou he is or might be correct on points, there are different ways to express yourself, and he chose the most aggressive one.

INIS doesn't conduct searches. Garda does, and as an applicant you sign e-vetting form, and declaration that says "I allow Garda to search my all history". And you give them a list of the addresses you lived thru your whole life. So practically, Garda has permission & power to do all background search about it. And I am 100% sure that they do check your background. So either you list or do not list everything, Garda will still check your background.

Besides, this was just an example apart with the other things that I have to declare again even thou Ireland / Irish police does know and aware.
[/quote]

INIS doesn't conduct searches. Garda does,

That is wrong!

The INIS / ISD make their own searches and enquiries with Revenue and Social Welfare .

The INIS also make searches with the GNIB regarding criminal element of the case. The INIS also consult with their various departments depending on the applicant's time in Ireland and status involved.

Allow logic to enter your being for one moment. INIS give you a letter saying you have status, and to to the local immigration officer or the GNIB in Burgh Quay, You do what you are told. Garda / Immigration officer tells you that he can not do anything today because his computer does not have the details. ie INIS have not submitted the details to the GNIB yet. You have to come back another day

How could the INIS make their own decisions without doing their own searches with various departments ? GNIB have their own work to do (including going around places of business to make sure that the applicant's spouse is truly working )

Again, you ignore GDPR issues. The best thing to do is get you, the applicant to produce the goods. THEN they will do whatever checks they need to do .

A huge reason for delays in processing cases is because the INIS carried out investigation but other departments , ie Social Protection were late getting back to them.

They have averred this on many occasions in affidavits before the High Court in Judicial Review cases. INIS very much do their own checks

[OneWorld2122]

I’m seeing this post and few others are becoming toxic and admin/moderator needs to step in.

I’m following this forum from years even before I became a member and the forum has always been respectful and informative because of members like littlerr, who have helped members here.

suddenly new member started aggressive, abusive, insulting others members. members should be respectful and give their options, this is just my view.

[mentalmind]

well looks like moderators doesn't step in with the behaviour here. Again, I am just stating my opinion here, anyone can agree or disagree, I might be wrong on things again I am just ranting. And some member just comes in start being aggressive for no reason.

The same person believes Irish Government departments can't access to check your UK criminal history which he/she mentioned in another thread and the same person provided incorrect information with aggressive behaviour, so at this point I don't care.

Ireland is already losing lot's of possible immigrants due to high rent prices and low salaries (as in total percentage of your salary you spend on rent) and in my opinion this country is highly preferred by immigrants in hope of being Irish citizen. Yes no one is giving you guarantee about that, but still "just have 5 year of residency as employee or eligible study" is giving hope for lot's of immigrants.

And I already gave examples about how other EU countries handle citizenship applications as in much less documents collection and also not requiring applicant to send their passports via post (which is something really risky in my opinion) and Ireland is just fixing this in 2022 just because of pandemic creating backlogs.

Ireland is trying to make things look way harder to make it look challenging but in reality they just have outdated systems and they are not modern. Few more examples: Even you have valid residency for Ireland you needed to apply for visa to enter to country which you already have valid residence permit. Call it outdated, or just a way to get more money from immigrants but it's absurd. Same thing is in most of EU countries you do get long stay or permanent residence after you have 5 valid year of residence. But again in Ireland you either need to apply for long term residence which takes another 8 months plus 500 euro application fee, which is again plain stupid.

After 5 years, Ireland do allows you to apply for citizenship but still they clearly say "having 5 years residence doesn't mean you can stay in this country without eligible study or work reasons" which is total opposite of what most of other EU countries say.

[Jumbo Breakfast Role]

Jumbo, I did not disagree with any of your points. As you said, that is capitalism, and many people treat a country as a company. They will go where they can have a better life. I am saying that a country can do all the things you said, but I do not believe it is that SIMPLE since that could hurt them in the long term. If you think a country does not need NON-EU people, you can also look at the doctors here. Why would countries have work permits in the first place? Also, men, you are super passive-aggressive. Just look at a psychologist or something like that. You may need to check this anger inside you.

Cheers and peace!

Citizenship is discretionary. The Minister can refuse to open applications for it. Immigrants have no right to citizenship of Ireland (or any host country that they come to ) so there is no point going on about the tax they pay and how they could have gone somewhere else - that arrogant (but true) statement is basically saying you need me more than I need you. It is arrogant because, as I pointed out, The State will get others to fill your spot - the EU is HUGE.

If your residency was risk, then fair enough , you are correct. But this is about citizenship applications.

Citizenship , for ANY country is about more than someone living here and working here and gaining whatever societal advantages on offer (I know, that does sound funny considering how bad things are in Ireland - certainly not here for the weather) .

It is not for MERCANCERIES but for people who want to become full part of that society and have proven to have fully integrated and wish to integrate further - hence why groups like the Italians, Germans and Baltic countries demand evidence of exams in history and culture and politics (admittingly, I think that is an awful lot - but to be fair to the candidate of 8 years residency, they probably would easily pass that exam)

The sooner applicants understand this, the better. It would save them a lot of embarrassing ill informed online rants and the bursting of bubbles with regard to their notions and they won't get hurt feelings when they are hit with the truth.

Ireland's current demands are extremely fair (delays in processing are shocking) and there is little to suggest that they are going to change .

On the contrary, the State are looking to fill the gaps of certain Irish born child who could be declared Irish Citizens as of birth due to well known Supreme Court case in 2003 and its subsequent Referendum. Basically , after 2005, some kids are not Irish citizens. They would have to wait until either (a) they became 18 or (b) wait until their parent who finally got legal status (often under the 2005 or 2007 IBC scheme ) and then got citizenship. The new proposed law (coming soon) shall allow the child to apply for Irish Citizenship once their parent had 3 years legal residency (so it does not matter whether that parent ever applied for citizenship themselves) It is a small gesture, but significant when you consider that the child will be an Irish citizen just in time before stuff like this becomes important ie when they hit teenage years

So, I don't see any big rule changes that the OP raised (perfectly correct to point out it could happen) . Language tests are needed though .

"If you think a country does not need NON-EU people, you can also look at the doctors here. Why would countries have work permits in the first place?"

I did not say that ! I said they will have no problem finding other Non EU people who are willing to come over and work . I also pointed out that we also have a huge EU market (which includes Non EU family)

The raising of doctors and nurses, while valid is a sore pointer for Ireland due to the thousands of Irish doctors and nurses that Ireland produces each year, but leave. Politically and socially, this could be fixed. The public would prefer to see the Irish government and HSE reform the health service and seek to keep Irish doctors and nurses in Ireland and thus reduce the need for Non EU doctors and nurses to only the specialists.

"Also, men, you are super passive-aggressive. Just look at a psychologist or something like that. You may need to check this anger inside you."

You are soft! Grow up . You clearly have issues with being told that you are wrong !

No aggression here and there is mostly certainly no anger ! Total amusement as to the false sense of entitlement from you two people.

You sound like a typical millennial .

[Nala2021]

I think it will be of benefit to remember that INIS did not create the scorecard according to EU and non-EU's peoples' and applicants' feelings and emotions over the citizenship system that currently exists.

Whether EU, or non-EU or whoever in that case, chooses or not chooses Ireland, the scorecard system leaves a lot to be desired in regards to clarity, flexibility and reasonableness (and this is a criticism across all columns on the excel sheet, not just for a standard adult application).

No applicant should have to deal with the above, just because the time to 'wait' for the citizenship is 'only' 5 years - if one expects that, then it's equivalent to one stating and believing that an applicant should be punished for the (supposedly in my eyes) 'lenient' allowance that the Irish government concerning the requirements of applying for Irish citizenship.

[Nala2021]

It seems, Jumbo Breakfast Role, that you are completely swayed only towards the 'side' of the government, from the way that you speak here - meaning that you do not seem to see all sides of the argument. Are you even an applicant for citizenship, or any other applicant, for a Visa, and so on? If you were, you would probably comprehend that this forum is the only sounding ground for some - and, at the end of the day, people here are adults and have their own opinions. It feels, and seems, that there is a possibility that you came to 'correct' and 'vet' criticisms, rants, and opinions.

[shpirtshqipe]

Nala2021 everyone is entitled to an opinion whether they are pro or against the current citizenship system.
Bringing different points of view is vital so that other people whom are about to embark on the journey of citizenship or thinking of migrating to Ireland have an informed choice.
Personally this forum has been extremely useful especially coming across such discussions because it made me aware of what processes or issues I would face coming to Ireland from people who went through it already.

[ashconnor]

Such a daft system.

I don’t do POS transactions on my debit card so I guess I’m fecked now aren’t I?

I’m pretty sure I don’t have 6 months continuous CC statements with 3xPOS transactions on them either.

[MonToto]

I am trying to figure out what would be the best route to forego with my husband being an American and on the FamEU4 stamp as I am a German native with a permanent full-time job here in Ireland since the last 4 years. We want to stay here in Ireland for good.

He would like to apply for Irish citizenship as otherwise it would mean he would have to reapply on a five year visa on repeat. The isssue is, he lost his complete eyesight and is now registered blind and is getting Disability benefit from the US paid. His income is also known to the Revenue.

In regard to the scorecard it looks like it is more like a draft and not the finished end product. Which then makes it more difficult to decide which would be the best way for my husband to go either for citizenship once the time has come or stay on repeat visas? ?

What is your view on this?

[meself2]

I am trying to figure out what would be the best route to forego with my husband being an American and on the FamEU4 stamp as I am a German native with a permanent full-time job here in Ireland since the last 4 years. We want to stay here in Ireland for good.

He would like to apply for Irish citizenship as otherwise it would mean he would have to reapply on a five year visa on repeat. The isssue is, he lost his complete eyesight and is now registered blind and is getting Disability benefit from the US paid. His income is also known to the Revenue.

In regard to the scorecard it looks like it is more like a draft and not the finished end product. Which then makes it more difficult to decide which would be the best way for my husband to go either for citizenship once the time has come or stay on repeat visas? ?

What is your view on this?

A year is a long time and, hopefully, when you'll be able to apply, they'll put the scorecard into a better shape, as tons of stuff is missing and/or unclear there, or at the very least people will forward their queries to ISD and let everyone know the outcome on forums. You can definitely give it some time, since it's just been published a month ago.
On the other hand, I don't know if pervious citizenship refusals will be impacted negatively on your application, but since there is always an option to apply again, I'd advise you to go for it. If it succeeds - awesome, if not - they'll (hopefully) tell you the reasons why.

You can also try to get your husband a permanent residence card, which, as ISD claims, will be valid for 10 years via EU2, if you're not willing to deal with the citizenship straight away. That will save you one visa renewal I reckon.

[fuzzbizz]

Yes, though it was a really cheap house in the midlands, under 100k. I used the deposit I'd saved for Dublin and after several banks refused to give me a mortgage I just looked for what I could buy in cash with the deposit. Back in 2018 there were still cheap houses out in the countryside, less so now

Deed ? ABSOLUTELY . The greatest evidence of ownership of property

Kuddos of owning property without a mortgage. Wow.

I am assuming you are a migrant and not someone who inherited the property

Okay, the answer is dead simple