Scorecard is a positive development

[Nala2021]

If you look at the first post made in the timeline of 2021, 2020, 2019 was in late or end of January ( for 2019 first applications post in feb ), so by that logic, it’s still very early first application already submitted in 2022 after new point system.

Well it is speeding up the process, bcs of unclarity people can't really apply for citizenship not to risk refusals, so it's easing the weight on immigration department.

Exactly. And some proof, well the only proof we have so far, is that it's the 18th of January, and still there is only 1 person who has written on the timeline for 2022. And I think that is for a child of a naturalised parent.

True - i think i missed a point here, i wrote about the date of the post, but actually it should have been the date of application. So if you go to the citizenship 2021 timeline, I can see that some applicants posted late, yet their application date was actually very early in January.

Suppose time will tell.

[mentalmind]

The proof is in the coming 12 months if it is to speed up the process or to make it more meticulous and laborsome.

it will be worth it if the processing time is improved on significantly, otherwise its just a bureaucratic move

The average citizenship applications time were around 12 months usually it got extended up to 24 months during covid times. With things going back to normal, I assume duration will get shorter as the backlog gets less and less. Especially with original passport not being needed, the whole process can be more relaxed on immigration department side (as in no one will rush to send you back some documents).

So most likely, 150 points approach will led your application being decided in 12 months while lower score will make it much longer. And the whole process depends your current nationality also. I know few people that their application took around 3 years (before covid times) just because of their current nationality.

So I doubt this is for making things shorter or quicker, it's just to slow down applications and causing more bureaucracy. And this part is my just 2 cents, probably there is much higher interest in Ireland by non-EU nationals (excluding UK people) as UK is not part of EU now and Ireland is left as only English spoken country as main language that is part of EU.

[meself2]

The proof is in the coming 12 months if it is to speed up the process or to make it more meticulous and laborsome.

it will be worth it if the processing time is improved on significantly, otherwise its just a bureaucratic move

The average citizenship applications time were around 12 months usually it got extended up to 24 months during covid times. With things going back to normal, I assume duration will get shorter as the backlog gets less and less. Especially with original passport not being needed, the whole process can be more relaxed on immigration department side (as in no one will rush to send you back some documents).

So most likely, 150 points approach will led your application being decided in 12 months while lower score will make it much longer. And the whole process depends your current nationality also. I know few people that their application took around 3 years (before covid times) just because of their current nationality.

So I doubt this is for making things shorter or quicker, it's just to slow down applications and causing more bureaucracy. And this part is my just 2 cents, probably there is much higher interest in Ireland by non-EU nationals (excluding UK people) as UK is not part of EU now and Ireland is left as only English spoken country as main language that is part of EU.

Hopefully your option will be the case. I was rather worried about the length of the initial processing, as they don't have to hold an applicant's passport anymore and can take longer to process it.

[kaifushn1k]

Perhaps someone could clarify their interpretation of what's required under a Rent agreement registered with the local authority / AHB / PTB please as part of this scoreboard system. Would a simple rental agreement cosigned by you and the management company do in this case? If so how can one show that the lease was in effect for multiple years? Like in the example of a person above if you lived in the same place for 4 years you would likely only have one rental agreement signed at the very start with no indication of how long you stated at that place

[shpirtshqipe]

Perhaps someone could clarify their interpretation of what's required under a Rent agreement registered with the local authority / AHB / PTB please as part of this scoreboard system. Would a simple rental agreement cosigned by you and the management company do in this case? If so how can one show that the lease was in effect for multiple years? Like in the example of a person above if you lived in the same place for 4 years you would likely only have one rental agreement signed at the very start with no indication of how long you stated at that place

If you have an open-ended rental agreement contract then you can ask either:

1. Ask the estate agent that rented you the property to give you a written confirmation letter or,

2. Ask the landlord (if latter is no longer dealing with the estate agent) to give you a written letter confirming you’ve been renting there or,

3. Get the estate agent/landlord to give you a renewed rental agreement

You should’ve received a PRTB letter and if not ask landlord/estate agent to arrange same

Either of the above, coupled with evidence of utility bills etc of the same address will soon strengthen the fact you’ve been living at the property

[kaifushn1k]

Yeah that makes sense thanks. If you look at that scorecard table there's two items that are essentially the same
ie:
Current a/c Bank statements: For each of the required
number of years - annually Six consecutive months

and

Credit card statements: For each of the required number of
years - annually Six consecutive months

Both require Six consecutive months and both give you 50 points. Is the difference here that in the latter case it's a credit card specifically and not a debit card? Let's say we provide six month of bank statement and six month of debit card statement. Would that effectively be the same thing so you get 50 points in total or is it going to be treated separately so you get 50 points for each?

[meself2]

Yeah that makes sense thanks. If you look at that scorecard table there's two items that are essentially the same
ie:
Current a/c Bank statements: For each of the required
number of years - annually Six consecutive months

and

Credit card statements: For each of the required number of
years - annually Six consecutive months

Both require Six consecutive months and both give you 50 points. Is the difference here that in the latter case it's a credit card specifically and not a debit card? Let's say we provide six month of bank statement and six month of debit card statement. Would that effectively be the same thing so you get 50 points in total or is it going to be treated separately so you get 50 points for each?

I would treat it that way (to be on the safe side):
If you can submit P60/etc - the latter comes into play, so it gives you 50 points as something which you're not obliged to do.
If you only have bank statements from the top 3 - that's what they count as, 50 points again.

[OneWorld2122]

Frankly, hearing something like this for the first time!! could you suggest which bank in Ireland provides bank statement with excluding debit card transactions or separately both bank transaction and debit card transaction?????

If you understand , it’s a proof of residence if your bank statement don’t have any debit card transaction then it’s a concern - as it doesn’t proof you are living here and online transactions are not proof of residency.

Let's say we provide six month of bank statement and six month of debit card statement. Would that effectively be the same thing so you get 50 points in total or is it going to be treated separately so you get 50 points for each?

[kaifushn1k]

I doubt any bank provides it that way. I am just confused that they essentially have the same thing twice (6 months of bank statement and 6 months of credit card statement ) that each give you 50 points

[shpirtshqipe]

I doubt any bank provides it that way. I am just confused that they essentially have the same thing twice (6 months of bank statement and 6 months of credit card statement ) that each give you 50 points

The Current Account is minimal proof of evidence required and when fulfilled awards 50 points. One can achieve the 50 points with either 1 or 2 bank accounts they may have on their name.
The Credit Card is an additional proof of residence and awards 50 points in its own right.
Effectively you would accumulate 100 points if you have submitted both of the above with a minimum of 3 POSs each month.
Let's say you don’t have some of the POSs on the current account (say last 3 months of 2021) but instead have them on your Credit Card (or another bank account on your name)
You would supply the Credit Card/Other account statements showing the POSs for the 3 missing months to supplement and satisfy the minimum requirements. Therefore you would have 3 months of Current Account + 3 months of Credit Card/other account = 6 consecutive months with a minimum of 3 POSs each month. This scenario will give you a total score of 50 points instead of 100 points to specifically satisfy the “3 POSs each month for 6 consecutive months”. You would then explain this on your supporting letter with the application so it is clear to the person processing it.

By the same token one should provide 6 months of Credit card statements (let’s say the last 6 months of 2021) which do not have a minimum of 3 POSs for each month as they will still be very useful in strengthening your “lawful residence” so they are not a wasted effort to include.

Lastly the more "high score" evidence from the Scorecard list you provide, the stronger your application for citizenship becomes and less risk of delays. I would submit as much quality evidence as I have

[shpirtshqipe]

Please, shpirtshqipe, see the below text for your perusal, copied and pasted from the 'New Scorecard approach is foolish' thread, pg 2, where you go on to make a point to me on how everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I assume that it is common knowledge that 'everyone' would include every person using this forum, and thus, includes me.

With the warmest regards, dude.

''Nala2021 everyone is entitled to an opinion whether they are pro or against the current citizenship system.
Bringing different points of view is vital so that other people whom are about to embark on the journey of citizenship or thinking of migrating to Ireland have an informed choice''.

Nala2021,
Please provide some formal/official statement to rebuke the last INIS announcement on the 31st of December 2021 regarding the New ScoreCard system which came in effect for new applications made from January 2022 onwards!
Evolving arguments should be based on facts rather than speculations!
Best Regards

[kaifushn1k]

Perhaps someone would have an opinion whether showing PCR test result with the address of the clinic would constitute a valid Doctor / Hospital attendance record as per the scorecard system ?

[OneWorld2122]

Covid test labs are private agency and in todays time almost all tourist also using these private companies for Covid test to travel back , so it’s not a proof of residency and can’t be equivalent of GP registration and attendance

Perhaps someone would have an opinion whether showing PCR test result with the address of the clinic would constitute a valid Doctor / Hospital attendance record as per the scorecard system ?

[meself2]

Perhaps someone would have an opinion whether showing PCR test result with the address of the clinic would constitute a valid Doctor / Hospital attendance record as per the scorecard system ?

I'd doubt that tbh. They're private indeed, and I don't think they have your address there anyway in form of a letter.

[naanikarum]

Received a reply from Citizenship info team.

[Mail-in query to Citizenship Info (citizenshipinfo@justice.ie)]
- One of the three mandatory documents to be furnished as per the scorecard
excel sheet is "Department of Social welfare annual statement". When I
checked the welfare website, I could see two different types of statements.
- 1) Statement of contributions 2) Statement of Payments. Are both valid as
proof of residency?
- When I generated these statements, both the statements show the current
address and not the address where I was resident during the period of
statement. Is a statement with current address sufficient?
- Are broadband/mobile phone bills accepted as proof of residence? Also
other utilities like recycling services like AES, Bord Na Mona, Allied
recycling etc., I could not find them in the list of proofs.

[Response]
Thank you for your email.
All utility bills are acceptable proofs for residency one your name and
address are present on the bill.
1) Statement of contributions 2) Statement of Payments. Are both valid
proofs of residency
Regards

Citizenship Helpdesk
Team 4

[naanikarum]

Received a reply from Citizenship info team.

[Mail-in query to Citizenship Info (citizenshipinfo@justice.ie)]
- One of the three mandatory documents to be furnished as per the scorecard
excel sheet is "Department of Social welfare annual statement". When I
checked the welfare website, I could see two different types of statements.
- 1) Statement of contributions 2) Statement of Payments. Are both valid as
proof of residency?
- When I generated these statements, both the statements show the current
address and not the address where I was resident during the period of
statement. Is a statement with current address sufficient?
- Are broadband/mobile phone bills accepted as proof of residence? Also
other utilities like recycling services like AES, Bord Na Mona, Allied
recycling etc., I could not find them in the list of proofs.

[Response]
Thank you for your email.
All utility bills are acceptable proofs for residency one your name and
address are present on the bill.
1) Statement of contributions 2) Statement of Payments. Are both valid
proofs of residency
Regards

Citizenship Helpdesk
Team 4

[Harshad93]

The scorecard approach doesn't consider ground realities -

[1] Some banks don't auto-generate bank statements. So, you have to request to generate the bank statement on a monthly basis from your bank on day 1. This is also needed to ensure that the issue date is in the year you want to show your residency proof.

[2] In a family of 2, only one of them is going to pay the rent if they live under the same roof. What the spouse can show as proof of payment (as needed for rental agreement)?

[3] If your spouse is not earning, what they can show - a bank statement? Why would they have separate bank accounts paying maintenance fees - they would just use the income earner's account

[4] Due to the rising cost of living, some families live in sharing with other tenants - how they can get rental agreements, utility bills etc?


Citizenship requirements should be quite straightforward -
[1] Should have paid taxes for all 5 years
[2] Should have legal residence
[3] Should have reckonable residence (can use entry/exit data with immigration)

If the spouse is not working, then the main income holder's proofs (Employment Detail Summary/Bank Statements) should be considered with legal, reckonable requirements

6-weeks requirement is the most ludicrous of all. As long the person is tax resident in Ireland (stayed for 183 days or more per year) should be more than sufficient. What the person spends for the rest of the time shouldn't be of concern - we have families to visit, tours etc.

I understand that we can't demand anything and it's not a right/entitlement for us. But we can only ask that the requirements be reasonable.

There should be other checks to weed out fraudulent applications.

[Obie]

I do not like the system, as it is so inflexible, i know people of independent means who have been residing in the state for several years, leaving with family members, so unable to get some of those documents.

The state should show flexibility, if a person says we have been residing in the state, there passport does not show any absence, that should be accepted as proof they have been in the state.

I do UK and Ireland naturalisation, but the Irish nationality application is more cumbersome, in UK, you are able to demonstrate residence much more easier than for Irish applications.

[lovebino]

Do you need them or do they need you ? Oh, dear. If they need you, they will make it reasonable, if you need them then you have to accept whatever they want. Wake up and stop blaming .

The scorecard approach doesn't consider ground realities -

[1] Some banks don't auto-generate bank statements. So, you have to request to generate the bank statement on a monthly basis from your bank on day 1. This is also needed to ensure that the issue date is in the year you want to show your residency proof.

[2] In a family of 2, only one of them is going to pay the rent if they live under the same roof. What the spouse can show as proof of payment (as needed for rental agreement)?

[3] If your spouse is not earning, what they can show - a bank statement? Why would they have separate bank accounts paying maintenance fees - they would just use the income earner's account

[4] Due to the rising cost of living, some families live in sharing with other tenants - how they can get rental agreements, utility bills etc?


Citizenship requirements should be quite straightforward -
[1] Should have paid taxes for all 5 years
[2] Should have legal residence
[3] Should have reckonable residence (can use entry/exit data with immigration)

If the spouse is not working, then the main income holder's proofs (Employment Detail Summary/Bank Statements) should be considered with legal, reckonable requirements

6-weeks requirement is the most ludicrous of all. As long the person is tax resident in Ireland (stayed for 183 days or more per year) should be more than sufficient. What the person spends for the rest of the time shouldn't be of concern - we have families to visit, tours etc.

I understand that we can't demand anything and it's not a right/entitlement for us. But we can only ask that the requirements be reasonable.

There should be other checks to weed out fraudulent applications.

[jowatosath]

Hi,

I'm sorry if this question is off-topic but the last forum on references was already locked and I couldn't find any other open topic on references.

I know applicants are required to provide 3 Irish citizens as references. I wonder if those references should be Irish citizens by birth or can you provide naturalised Irish citizens (having a different nationality originally before becoming naturalised Irish citizens)?

Thanks for your help.

[Nala2021]

Hi,

I'm sorry if this question is off-topic but the last forum on references was already locked and I couldn't find any other open topic on references.

I know applicants are required to provide 3 Irish citizens as references. I wonder if those references should be Irish citizens by birth or can you provide naturalised Irish citizens (having a different nationality originally before becoming naturalised Irish citizens)?

Thanks for your help.

It doesn't state anywhere that the Irish citizen references should be Irish by birth. I think that if they did say that it would be completely discriminating towards the validity of those who become Irish via citizenship. An Irish citizen is an Irish citizen.

All the best with your application.

[OneWorld2122]

Life is not black and white and so are the things in life !!!

If you are skill laboured (and not the burden) both need each other. Simple !

Do you need them or do they need you ? Oh, dear. If they need you, they will make it reasonable, if you need them then you have to accept whatever they want. Wake up and stop blaming .

The scorecard approach doesn't consider ground realities -

[1] Some banks don't auto-generate bank statements. So, you have to request to generate the bank statement on a monthly basis from your bank on day 1. This is also needed to ensure that the issue date is in the year you want to show your residency proof.

[2] In a family of 2, only one of them is going to pay the rent if they live under the same roof. What the spouse can show as proof of payment (as needed for rental agreement)?

[3] If your spouse is not earning, what they can show - a bank statement? Why would they have separate bank accounts paying maintenance fees - they would just use the income earner's account

[4] Due to the rising cost of living, some families live in sharing with other tenants - how they can get rental agreements, utility bills etc?


Citizenship requirements should be quite straightforward -
[1] Should have paid taxes for all 5 years
[2] Should have legal residence
[3] Should have reckonable residence (can use entry/exit data with immigration)

If the spouse is not working, then the main income holder's proofs (Employment Detail Summary/Bank Statements) should be considered with legal, reckonable requirements

6-weeks requirement is the most ludicrous of all. As long the person is tax resident in Ireland (stayed for 183 days or more per year) should be more than sufficient. What the person spends for the rest of the time shouldn't be of concern - we have families to visit, tours etc.

I understand that we can't demand anything and it's not a right/entitlement for us. But we can only ask that the requirements be reasonable.

There should be other checks to weed out fraudulent applications.

[lovebino]

This might be rite in other country but I would think it is not rite in this country. They need you to pay tax but they want you and your family to leave when it needs to.

We are foreigners in this country and many of us are working so hard. My wife wont be able to submit this year because of this new rule, as she was on a Stamp 3 since came here until 2019. She is working now but wont have enough point for 2017 - 2019. So, I really support the oppinion from the post I have replied to.

So, I expect the applications will reduce, e.g Stamp 3 people.

[

quote=OneWorld2122 post_id=2055654 time=1644691588 user_id=254335]
Life is not black and white and so are the things in life !!!

If you are skill laboured (and not the burden) both need each other. Simple !

Do you need them or do they need you ? Oh, dear. If they need you, they will make it reasonable, if you need them then you have to accept whatever they want. Wake up and stop blaming .

The scorecard approach doesn't consider ground realities -

[1] Some banks don't auto-generate bank statements. So, you have to request to generate the bank statement on a monthly basis from your bank on day 1. This is also needed to ensure that the issue date is in the year you want to show your residency proof.

[2] In a family of 2, only one of them is going to pay the rent if they live under the same roof. What the spouse can show as proof of payment (as needed for rental agreement)?

[3] If your spouse is not earning, what they can show - a bank statement? Why would they have separate bank accounts paying maintenance fees - they would just use the income earner's account

[4] Due to the rising cost of living, some families live in sharing with other tenants - how they can get rental agreements, utility bills etc?


Citizenship requirements should be quite straightforward -
[1] Should have paid taxes for all 5 years
[2] Should have legal residence
[3] Should have reckonable residence (can use entry/exit data with immigration)

If the spouse is not working, then the main income holder's proofs (Employment Detail Summary/Bank Statements) should be considered with legal, reckonable requirements

6-weeks requirement is the most ludicrous of all. As long the person is tax resident in Ireland (stayed for 183 days or more per year) should be more than sufficient. What the person spends for the rest of the time shouldn't be of concern - we have families to visit, tours etc.

I understand that we can't demand anything and it's not a right/entitlement for us. But we can only ask that the requirements be reasonable.

There should be other checks to weed out fraudulent applications.

[/quote]

[meself2]

Hi,

I'm sorry if this question is off-topic but the last forum on references was already locked and I couldn't find any other open topic on references.

I know applicants are required to provide 3 Irish citizens as references. I wonder if those references should be Irish citizens by birth or can you provide naturalised Irish citizens (having a different nationality originally before becoming naturalised Irish citizens)?

Thanks for your help.

Should be fine for them to be referees as long as they have Irish citizenship, regardless of how they got it (if it's legal, of course). Might be better to have someone Irish by birth, but doubt it'll affect the application that much.

[OneWorld2122]

I read someone recently, they received an email from ISD, citizenshipinfo that they are working on updating the scorecard and include other valuable proof … which is a positive sign.