Leaving Ireland weeks before naturalisation certificate issued

[googole]

Hi ,

Need some advice on my situation, thank you in advance.

I applied my Irish citizenship via naturalisation in 2018. Things went well and at certain stage, I was told to pay application fee of 950 euros and that I would be able to attend next citizenship ceremony in 2019.

While I waited for next step of my citizenship, I got a job offer in the UK and then I left for UK in 2019. Four weeks later, I flied back to Ireland and attended my citizenship ceremony and got my citizenship officially granted - certificate issued.

Now I am still in the UK and I do want to retain my citizenship because this is my only citizenship. I am thinking if I should submit Form 5 to declare to retain my Irish citizenship. However, the form requires me to fill in the date when I left Ireland, which is 4 weeks before citizenship ceremony.

I am concerned this would cause my Irish citizenship revoked if this is revealed.. Am I over concerned and what is best way I should do ?

Thank you for all your advices.

[Nala2021]

Are you able to explain your status as to why the Irish citizenship is the only citizenship you hold? Did you hold any others at any point? I think it may help to clarify issues for an answer.

[googole]

Hi Nala2021,
Thanks for your time. The reason is my original Chinese citizenship is invalidated when a second citizenship is acquired, as China does not recognize dual citizenship.

This also happens to several other countries in Asia.

Thanks,

[littlerr]

Well if you came back to Ireland to collect your certificate, surely you were still using your IRP card to enter Ireland. Plus it was only a 4-week gap, so it would only be treated as a short foreign trip.

The date that you went back to the UK after getting your certificate is the date when you left Ireland.

[googole]

Hi Littlerr,

Interesting point.

I submitted my GNIB when I paid the application fee of 950€, so I do not have gnib with me when travelling back to Ireland.

At the border, I showed invitation of citizenship ceremony and visa on my chinese passport which shows my permission to stay until 2020. Then I was let in.

So looks like how to define date of leaving Ireland is not clear ..

[Nala2021]

It cannot be clarified as a 'work trip', as actually, you moved to the UK to do that job, with the knowledge that you would go back again and work permanently. So that 4 week gap, in my thoughts, is not a short foreign trip. I think you would have to define the date where you left Ireland, with the idea and thought that you are permanently leaving Ireland. So, if this is at the 4 week initiating stage, you have to put that date. The only reason you travelled back in a sense was to attend the ceremony - do you see where I am coming from?

[Dub23]

Once you've received Irish citizenship via naturalisation and you decide to move to another country you have to inform the Irish authorities of your intension to retain your Irish Citizenship.

"Revocation of a certificate of naturalisation

Under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956 as amended, the Minister for Justice has the power to revoke a certificate of naturalisation where an individual has been ordinarily resident outside of the State for seven years after naturalisation, unless;

They have registered annually in the prescribed manner their name and a declaration of an intention to retain Irish citizenship with an Irish diplomatic mission or consular office or with the Minister."

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/how-to- ... tizenship/

[littlerr]

Hi Littlerr,

Interesting point.

I submitted my GNIB when I paid the application fee of 950€, so I do not have gnib with me when travelling back to Ireland.

At the border, I showed invitation of citizenship ceremony and visa on my chinese passport which shows my permission to stay until 2020. Then I was let in.

So looks like how to define date of leaving Ireland is not clear ..

When you were let in with your re-entry visa, you were let in on the basis of your then GNIB permission. There is no difference whether you physically held a GNIB/IRP card or not. Unless the border officer admitted you on the basis of a temporary visitor, which would be incorrect, you are absolutely fine.

And yes you're right. The date of leaving Ireland is not defined properly in the legislation. Therefore that's another reason that you cannot be held responsible for interpreting the date in a different way than how the minister may interpret it.

Just send in the declaration and you'll be fine.

Btw, in the unlikely event that the minister does decide to revoke your passport, and somehow the high court supports the minister's point of view, which would be even more extremely unlikely, they will not able to easily, as it would render you stateless.

[Nala2021]

Another difficult question, upon this matter, is where you actively looking for a job in the UK? That way, I can see more why you are worried about the revelation of the dates. And by the way, you don't have to answer this question here - I do not mean to put you in a difficult position. But it is something you have to think about in the back of your head whilst you go forward. The more honest you are with yourself, and your position, the better you will be able to defend yourself either way.

[googole]

Thanks for the detail explanations, which makes lots of sense. Appreciate your time !

Hi Littlerr,

Interesting point.

I submitted my GNIB when I paid the application fee of 950€, so I do not have gnib with me when travelling back to Ireland.

At the border, I showed invitation of citizenship ceremony and visa on my chinese passport which shows my permission to stay until 2020. Then I was let in.

So looks like how to define date of leaving Ireland is not clear ..

When you were let in with your re-entry visa, you were let in on the basis of your then GNIB permission. There is no difference whether you physically held a GNIB/IRP card or not. Unless the border officer admitted you on the basis of a temporary visitor, which would be incorrect, you are absolutely fine.

And yes you're right. The date of leaving Ireland is not defined properly in the legislation. Therefore that's another reason that you cannot be held responsible for interpreting the date in a different way than how the minister may interpret it.

Just send in the declaration and you'll be fine.

Btw, in the unlikely event that the minister does decide to revoke your passport, and somehow the high court supports the minister's point of view, which would be even more extremely unlikely, they will not able to easily, as it would render you stateless.

[googole]

I get your point. This is not an easy part to articulate and guess there should be more arguments based on facts instead of subjective things.

Another difficult question, upon this matter, is where you actively looking for a job in the UK? That way, I can see more why you are worried about the revelation of the dates. And by the way, you don't have to answer this question here - I do not mean to put you in a difficult position. But it is something you have to think about in the back of your head whilst you go forward. The more honest you are with yourself, and your position, the better you will be able to defend yourself either way.

[googole]

Hi littlerr,

Is there any chance that I can contact your for further discussion ? Sorry I cannot send private message.

I see the contact on website, not sure this will lead to you.

"0344 991 9222 or at london@workpermit.com"

Thanks,

Hi Littlerr,

Interesting point.

I submitted my GNIB when I paid the application fee of 950€, so I do not have gnib with me when travelling back to Ireland.

At the border, I showed invitation of citizenship ceremony and visa on my chinese passport which shows my permission to stay until 2020. Then I was let in.

So looks like how to define date of leaving Ireland is not clear ..

When you were let in with your re-entry visa, you were let in on the basis of your then GNIB permission. There is no difference whether you physically held a GNIB/IRP card or not. Unless the border officer admitted you on the basis of a temporary visitor, which would be incorrect, you are absolutely fine.

And yes you're right. The date of leaving Ireland is not defined properly in the legislation. Therefore that's another reason that you cannot be held responsible for interpreting the date in a different way than how the minister may interpret it.

Just send in the declaration and you'll be fine.

Btw, in the unlikely event that the minister does decide to revoke your passport, and somehow the high court supports the minister's point of view, which would be even more extremely unlikely, they will not able to easily, as it would render you stateless.

[Nala2021]

Hi littlerr,

Is there any chance that I can contact your for further discussion ? Sorry I cannot send private message.

I see the contact on website, not sure this will lead to you.

"0344 991 9222 or at london@workpermit.com"

Thanks,

Hi Littlerr,

Interesting point.

I submitted my GNIB when I paid the application fee of 950€, so I do not have gnib with me when travelling back to Ireland.

At the border, I showed invitation of citizenship ceremony and visa on my chinese passport which shows my permission to stay until 2020. Then I was let in.

So looks like how to define date of leaving Ireland is not clear ..

When you were let in with your re-entry visa, you were let in on the basis of your then GNIB permission. There is no difference whether you physically held a GNIB/IRP card or not. Unless the border officer admitted you on the basis of a temporary visitor, which would be incorrect, you are absolutely fine.

And yes you're right. The date of leaving Ireland is not defined properly in the legislation. Therefore that's another reason that you cannot be held responsible for interpreting the date in a different way than how the minister may interpret it.

Just send in the declaration and you'll be fine.

Btw, in the unlikely event that the minister does decide to revoke your passport, and somehow the high court supports the minister's point of view, which would be even more extremely unlikely, they will not able to easily, as it would render you stateless.

Sorry do you think that littler works for the forum or a law firm or something? I think you ought to get a solicitor to really help you out of your tough spot you may be in now, or perhaps in the future.

[Obie]

I believe the time you left Ireland, relates to when you got your citizenship and left.

I do not believe that period that predates citizenship are relevant

[googole]

oh, I thought this forum is relative to this website which provides consultancy. https://workpermit.com/

Hi littlerr,

Is there any chance that I can contact your for further discussion ? Sorry I cannot send private message.

I see the contact on website, not sure this will lead to you.

"0344 991 9222 or at london@workpermit.com"

Thanks,

Hi Littlerr,

Interesting point.

I submitted my GNIB when I paid the application fee of 950€, so I do not have gnib with me when travelling back to Ireland.

At the border, I showed invitation of citizenship ceremony and visa on my chinese passport which shows my permission to stay until 2020. Then I was let in.

So looks like how to define date of leaving Ireland is not clear ..

When you were let in with your re-entry visa, you were let in on the basis of your then GNIB permission. There is no difference whether you physically held a GNIB/IRP card or not. Unless the border officer admitted you on the basis of a temporary visitor, which would be incorrect, you are absolutely fine.

And yes you're right. The date of leaving Ireland is not defined properly in the legislation. Therefore that's another reason that you cannot be held responsible for interpreting the date in a different way than how the minister may interpret it.

Just send in the declaration and you'll be fine.

Btw, in the unlikely event that the minister does decide to revoke your passport, and somehow the high court supports the minister's point of view, which would be even more extremely unlikely, they will not able to easily, as it would render you stateless.

Sorry do you think that littler works for the forum or a law firm or something? I think you ought to get a solicitor to really help you out of your tough spot you may be in now, or perhaps in the future.

[CR001]

oh, I thought this forum is relative to this website which provides consultancy. https://workpermit.com/

The forum is only hosted by work permit.

None of us work for work permit.