Spouse of Irish National - Criminal Offense

[handoubleu]

My friend and her partner have been together for over 3 years now - she's non-EEA national and he's Irish. We were looking at if they decided to get married if that would be better than renewing her current permission since she would be moved to a Stamp 4 (as my understanding). Upon looking at the immigration website for what would be needed we noted that they explicitly state in their FAQ that if you have been convinced of a criminal offense you will not be granted a Spouse of Irish National permission. The application itself requests you disclose ANY criminal offense so we believe that she would need to disclose her traffic offenses from abroad and her being caught/"convicted" of having alcohol before legal age (we are both American so legal age there is 21 yr old despite the legal age being 18 in Ireland). Has anyone been denied a partner/de facto/spouse permission based on such minor/traffic criminal offenses? When I reviewed the policy document provided by the website it states that criminal offenses can be given considerable weight in an application, but do not mean the applicant will be absolutely denied. Due to this, I was surprised that the FAQ for the permission said you would automatically be denied.


Link attached for reference:

FAQ
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/my-situ ... heme/#faqs

Policy Document - page 25
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... cation.pdf

[Vorona]

I can only share my experience from years ago. As a former US citizen, I was on a de-facto permission for the first few years before getting married to my Irish husband, I had a couple of traffic offences/fines in the US when I was living there. I remember they've asked me for a police certificate when I was applying for de-facto permission, but it was not a requirement years later when we got married. That was years ago, but I don't think things changed much in that regard. If they ask, she will need to get the documents from an embassy or have them ready. I would not worry much about it, unless of course your friend committed very serious crimes and been imprisoned, then it's a different story. I'd say she's running a risk of being rejected for not disclosing her offences rather than for committing them.

[littlerr]

A SOIN application can be reviewed even if the applicant has minor offences. It cannot be granted automatically though (meaning that once they get married, they need to submit a written application rather than just getting an automatic change of status from your local station).

Some people still just choose not to disclose criminal history and ask immigration officers to grant a change of status directly. Some of them still get approved, but they risk having their permissions revoked if INIS eventually finds out their criminal history.

[nmurph]

My friend and her partner have been together for over 3 years now - she's non-EEA national and he's Irish. We were looking at if they decided to get married if that would be better than renewing her current permission since she would be moved to a Stamp 4 (as my understanding). Upon looking at the immigration website for what would be needed we noted that they explicitly state in their FAQ that if you have been convinced of a criminal offense you will not be granted a Spouse of Irish National permission. The application itself requests you disclose ANY criminal offense so we believe that she would need to disclose her traffic offenses from abroad and her being caught/"convicted" of having alcohol before legal age (we are both American so legal age there is 21 yr old despite the legal age being 18 in Ireland). Has anyone been denied a partner/de facto/spouse permission based on such minor/traffic criminal offenses? When I reviewed the policy document provided by the website it states that criminal offenses can be given considerable weight in an application, but do not mean the applicant will be absolutely denied. Due to this, I was surprised that the FAQ for the permission said you would automatically be denied.


Link attached for reference:

FAQ
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/my-situ ... heme/#faqs

Policy Document - page 25
https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... cation.pdf

As an American citizen there is no visa to apply. Once/if they marry, they just need to make an appointment with their local immigration officer and present their passports, marriage certificate and if I recall correctly, proof of joined residency. The application is only for spouses joining from Visa required countries.

I speak from experience as a US citizen married to an Irish citizen. We went in, spoke briefly. She took my picture and once my new IRP card arrived, I got my stamp 4. Easy peasy.

[handoubleu]

Thanks all for the insight! I will relay the advise/experiences on.

Overall, I gathered that in terms of her needing to disclose the traffic violations etc. would be necessary, regardless of them being minor, and I figured that surely they were not denying people for such "criminal offenses". But given their blanket statement in the FAQ I was not certain if this could pose an issue or if something had changed that they were denying anyone with a criminal offense regardless of the severity.

One further question, I could apply for a de facto permission with my own partner, but he is from the U.K. if we eventually get married, would I need to make an application to Unit 5 or go to the local immigration station to ask for a change of permission? It is my understanding partners/SOEU citizens or SO Stamp 1, 3 etc. and de facto partners typically make an application, but the immigration website does not seem to direct how to make an application for UK spouses?

[Marcal]

Quick question: I will soon be applying for naturalisation and am stumped at the question about previous "criminal offences". Back in 2012 I was given 3 points at the roadside in Northern Ireland for using a mobile phone. Those 3 points were removed from my licence after 3 years in 2015. I have recently attained a PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland) Criminal Record Check to accompany the application, which as expected is totally clear and doesn't even mention that mobile phone incident. Do I therefore include that incident in the application form?

[Vorona]

Do I therefore include that incident in the application form?

Yes, it would be naive to think that the record was removed completely and make a false statement on the application. Just attach a brief explanation, if they want to check they will see that the offence took place long time ago and fine was paid. Far better that not disclosing.

There is a reason for the warning on the first page of the application form:
"Warning: Giving an untrue answer in this form is an offence.
Section 29A of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956, as amended provides that a person who knowingly or recklessly makes a declaration under this Act, or a statement for the purposes of any application under this Act that is false or misleading in any material respect, shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €3,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to both, or on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €50,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years, or both.
A certificate of naturalisation may be revoked if the certificate was procured by fraud, misrepresentation, (whether innocent or fraudulent), or concealment of material facts.".

[luxurylemon]

As an American citizen there is no visa to apply. Once/if they marry, they just need to make an appointment with their local immigration officer and present their passports, marriage certificate and if I recall correctly, proof of joined residency. The application is only for spouses joining from Visa required countries.

I speak from experience as a US citizen married to an Irish citizen. We went in, spoke briefly. She took my picture and once my new IRP card arrived, I got my stamp 4. Easy peasy.

This is our experience also. We were married before my husband came to Ireland so we just told them immigration officer in Dublin airport and he told us to go register. We registered with the local Garda Station and they looked for our marriage cert, proof of joint address, passports and took his picture and that was it.
Our last renewal was just about 2 weeks ago, we are just waiting on the new IRP at the minute. The appointment was less than 2 minutes we were in and out he didnt ask us a thing, take a new picture or anything.
My husband is also a US Citizen, now he doesn't have any criminal offenses anyway but nobody has ever asked.

[Munster27]

@nmurph and@luxurylemon
At your first registration as non-visa required national spouse of Irish national, did you fill out a form? I have heard that some do and have to answer a question on whether or not the parties have ever been married before. No conviction questions though. Then others don't seem to have any form given to them; they just show the marriage cert and docs you mention, get fingerprinted and have the photo taken.
Can you let me know?
Thanks a million.

[luxurylemon]

We have never filled out any forms, never had any letters from INIS, never been asked if either of us were married before, never been asked about convictions etc. At the last renewal they didn't even ask to see our marriage cert again or my passport. They only took my husbands to put a stamp in it he said just in case as its not even required anymore.
That being said we have always registered in the same Garda Station and its always been the same person. It might vary at each station so it could be different where you register.

[handoubleu]

I can only share my experience from years ago. As a former US citizen, I was on a de-facto permission for the first few years before getting married to my Irish husband, I had a couple of traffic offences/fines in the US when I was living there. I remember they've asked me for a police certificate when I was applying for de-facto permission, but it was not a requirement years later when we got married. That was years ago, but I don't think things changed much in that regard. If they ask, she will need to get the documents from an embassy or have them ready. I would not worry much about it, unless of course your friend committed very serious crimes and been imprisoned, then it's a different story. I'd say she's running a risk of being rejected for not disclosing her offences rather than for committing them.

I was just reviewing de facto information today for myself, and I notice that the application requires a police clearance certificate. I have never provided one before so I was just wondering (as an American) if this is the FBI check clearance or my previous local police clearance/check?

[nmurph]

@nmurph and@luxurylemon
At your first registration as non-visa required national spouse of Irish national, did you fill out a form? I have heard that some do and have to answer a question on whether or not the parties have ever been married before. No conviction questions though. Then others don't seem to have any form given to them; they just show the marriage cert and docs you mention, get fingerprinted and have the photo taken.
Can you let me know?
Thanks a million.

We didn’t have to fill out any forms or paperwork. Made an appointment, showed proof of marriage cert and joint address and that was it! Would’ve been in and out on 5-10 minutes but was having the craic with our officer