Working whilst applying for ILR under 14 year rule

tintininuk · Post by **tintininuk** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:29 pm

Hi wonder if someone can help.

Am in the process of applying for ILR under 14 year rule(illegaly). My application will be submitted by my solicitor by the end of this week. I am currently and have been employed for the last 14 years. When my application is launched will/am I allowed to continue working? If not what are the chances of the authoroties contacting my employer? I have been working for them for the last 10 years andwould not want them to get into trouble. That and I have a family to support. Any help/advice would be much appreciated. Is there anyone out there that has found themselves in a similar situation?

Post by **Frontier Mole** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:06 am

Yes they will contact your employer so they can fine them. Your employer is going to be up for a civil penalty in the region of Â£2000 to Â£10000.

They will sack you of course as you no doubt mislead them by not telling them your proper immigration status. They can not keep you on the books as it will lead to further fines. So essentially you will be making your self unemployed at the point of application.

UKBA will take between two and three years to make a decision and it will almost certainly be a refusal. You might have a chance at appeal so you are talking about a minimum of 3 years in limbo before you will finally have an answer.

Welcome to the new world of UK immigration.

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:40 am

Frontier Mole,
That sounds like real rough justice, but fair enough.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:53 am

Siggi wrote:Frontier Mole,
That sounds like real rough justice, but fair enough.

Yeah it is a bit of a bugger but then again why be rewarded for breaking the law for 14 years?

sahaz · Post by **sahaz** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:32 pm

Wanderer wrote:
Siggi wrote:Frontier Mole,
That sounds like real rough justice, but fair enough.
Yeah it is a bit of a bugger but then again why be rewarded for breaking the law for 14 years?

Or look at it in another angle "The Rules on long residence recognise the ties a person may form with the UK over a lengthy period of residence here".

"The long residence concession was brought within the scope of the Immigration Rules from 1 April 2003".

sahaz · Post by **sahaz** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:47 pm

Frontier Mole wrote:Yes they will contact your employer so they can fine them. Your employer is going to be up for a civil penalty in the region of Â£2000 to Â£10000.

UKBA will take between two and three years to make a decision and it will almost certainly be a refusal. You might have a chance at appeal so you are talking about a minimum of 3 years in limbo before you will finally have an answer.

Welcome to the new world of UK immigration.

If the applicants meets all the criteria acording to the long residence rule e.g to mention a few : no criminal records, no deportation order against, uk test passed and etc...

Why does UKBA take a minimum of 3 years to give an answer to "almost certainly be a refusal"?

Sorry I am not having a go or anything like that just the way I'm writing in english, it is comming across like that. I appologise in advance if you are taking me the wrong way.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:10 pm

sahaz wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
Siggi wrote:Frontier Mole,
That sounds like real rough justice, but fair enough.
Yeah it is a bit of a bugger but then again why be rewarded for breaking the law for 14 years?
Or look at it in another angle "The Rules on long residence recognise the ties a person may form with the UK over a lengthy period of residence here".

Yes, doesn't take away the fact they have broken the law tho.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:12 pm

sahaz wrote:
Frontier Mole wrote:Yes they will contact your employer so they can fine them. Your employer is going to be up for a civil penalty in the region of Â£2000 to Â£10000.

UKBA will take between two and three years to make a decision and it will almost certainly be a refusal. You might have a chance at appeal so you are talking about a minimum of 3 years in limbo before you will finally have an answer.

Welcome to the new world of UK immigration.
If the applicants meets all the criteria acording to the long residence rule e.g to mention a few : no criminal records, no deportation order against, uk test passed and etc...

Why does UKBA take a minimum of 3 years to give an answer to "almost certainly be a refusal"?

Sorry I am not having a go or anything like that just the way I'm writing in english, it is comming across like that. I appologise in advance if you are taking me the wrong way.

I would argue being illegally in the country is a criminal act and applying for the 14 year rule is admitting it. Therefore criminal record therefore no ILR!

But I'm a bit of a hard-liner, but faced with someone in that position face to face would be hard.....

So I'm actually a two-faced hard-liner!

2347526 · Post by **2347526** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:20 pm

Hi tintininuk

I am or was in a very similar situation. I made my 14 year application 8 months ago (same as yours) and I was faced with the same dilemma. I had to inform my employers about my situation so that they did not get into trouble. It was a hard decision to make as they helped me alot. Saying that I would advice you to find an excuse to leave without telling them the real reason as from experience my leaving was not very good as everyone at work knew about me and you sense like suddenly they see you as an outsider and forget all about who you really are. These are people who I worked with for years. Take it from me, this is the beginning of your tough times ahead so pray and be strong.

Good luck with your application!

republique · Post by **republique** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:26 pm

2347526 wrote:Hi tintininuk

I am or was in a very similar situation. I made my 14 year application 8 months ago (same as yours) and I was faced with the same dilemma. I had to inform my employers about my situation so that they did not get into trouble. It was a hard decision to make as they helped me alot. Saying that I would advice you to find an excuse to leave without telling them the real reason as from experience my leaving was not very good as everyone at work knew about me and you sense like suddenly they see you as an outsider and forget all about who you really are. These are people who I worked with for years. Take it from me, this is the beginning of your tough times ahead so pray and be strong.

While I agree it is best to leave without telling them the real reason, those people quite correctly felt betrayed by you so don't think because you worked with them for years should overcome you lying to them about your status.

Post by **Frontier Mole** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:48 pm

To answer the why it takes so long to get an answer? There is a long queue and not much of a team tasked to deal with it. There are other priorities that are far more pressing so the resources go there.
Why should it be any different, you have been here 14 years without going any where so what is the hurry now?

Why refused? You are unlikely to be able to put forward enough documentation to satisfy the high threshold set by the UKBA caseworker guidance. This is especially so from the earlier years of your stay.

The other issue is the high chance you have used some form of deception or fraud to survive the 14 years. As you have said you have worked for the present employer for ten years. How did you get the job, what documentation did you give him? How have you opened bank accounts, got credit cards etc without some form of identity showing residency in the UK? The laws on identity fraud are very tough now. Expect the worst and hope for the best.

2347526 · Post by **2347526** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:18 pm

republique wrote:
2347526 wrote:Hi tintininuk

I am or was in a very similar situation. I made my 14 year application 8 months ago (same as yours) and I was faced with the same dilemma. I had to inform my employers about my situation so that they did not get into trouble. It was a hard decision to make as they helped me alot. Saying that I would advice you to find an excuse to leave without telling them the real reason as from experience my leaving was not very good as everyone at work knew about me and you sense like suddenly they see you as an outsider and forget all about who you really are. These are people who I worked with for years. Take it from me, this is the beginning of your tough times ahead so pray and be strong.
While I agree it is best to leave without telling them the real reason, those people quite correctly felt betrayed by you so don't think because you worked with them for years should overcome you lying to them about your status.

Is the status more important to you than the person? Would you hate me for trying to earn a living decently or would you rather see me beg/or commit crimes like stealing or selling drugs? As these kind of "jobs" dont require any form of status check.

republique · Post by **republique** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:32 pm

2347526 wrote:
Is the status more important to you than the person? Would you hate me for trying to earn a living decently or would you rather see me beg/or commit crimes like stealing or selling drugs? As these kind of "jobs" dont require any form of status check.

Yes because you were dishonest
You didn't earn decently because you had to lie to get the job.

Sushil-ACCA · Post by **Sushil-ACCA** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:46 pm

Any way time have come to take decision for what u have waited for 14 years

put yr papers and try to fulfill atleast yr wish to become UK person

what more worse will happen than what u have already suffered .

but give altleast after 14 years law to take it course,

this is right time to open up and accept what ever happended, rest is yr Luck.

Post by **vinny** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:02 am

See also ILr 14 years

bani · Post by **bani** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:46 pm

sahaz wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
Siggi wrote:Frontier Mole,
That sounds like real rough justice, but fair enough.
Yeah it is a bit of a bugger but then again why be rewarded for breaking the law for 14 years?
Or look at it in another angle "The Rules on long residence recognise the ties a person may form with the UK over a lengthy period of residence here".

"The long residence concession was brought within the scope of the Immigration Rules from 1 April 2003".

It's a tough situation. You want to regularise someone who has been here that long, but you don't want to reward them with ILR. I think they should get probationary status instead. Let them prove themselves for a few years under legal status that allows them to work.

jei2 · Post by **jei2** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:53 pm

2347526 wrote:

Is the status more important to you than the person? Would you hate me for trying to earn a living decently or would you rather see me beg/or commit crimes like stealing or selling drugs? As these kind of "jobs" dont require any form of status check.

Bear in mind you're getting both objectve and subjective opinion here. Unless you arrived as a dependent minor, you're not going to get much mileage out of the above argument.

Although you've touched obliquely on an issue that is going to become a lot bigger later. Overstayers who turn to crime to maintain their living. Because I don't see them all turning up to UKBA saying "send me home now". And even if they did is the Home Office is going to book 600,00 odd seats on whichever cutprice airlines are still running?

(Am I alone in beginning to sound like the harbinger of social doom?)

republique · Post by **republique** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:20 pm

jei2 wrote:
2347526 wrote:

Is the status more important to you than the person? Would you hate me for trying to earn a living decently or would you rather see me beg/or commit crimes like stealing or selling drugs? As these kind of "jobs" dont require any form of status check.
Bear in mind you're getting both objectve and subjective opinion here. Unless you arrived as a dependent minor, you're not going to get much mileage out of the above argument.

It is a ridiculous argument. I work illegally or I turn to crime.
Then don't come at all or go home.
And certainly if you turn to crime, you'd probably get caught, go to prison and deported anyway.

berkshire1987 · Post by **berkshire1987** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:36 pm

Is the status more important to you than the person? Would you hate me for trying to earn a living decently or would you rather see me beg/or commit crimes like stealing or selling drugs? As these kind of "jobs" dont require any form of status check.

Well yes you lied. You weren't making an honest living because you lied to your colleagues and your employer. How do you know that you didn't block a person who has full rights to work here, from getting that job and actually earning a living honestly? Do you not think that is what they will be thinking with you being illegal.

How can you expect people to still be ok with you when you have abused their trust and also abused a sensitive area - immigration. You may well be a nice person but what you did wasn't. And you justify what you have done and by being here, like it is your god given right by coming up with making the excuse just making an honest living or if not then resorting to crime.

Post by **vinny** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:13 pm

See also recent Long residence (14-year) Court of Appeal ZH (BANGLADESH) [2009] EWCA Civ 8 judgement.

bebe2 · Post by **bebe2** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:54 pm

all those who critisize him, why dont we sacrifice him to the gods of ho . feel better now.

the truth is, there is hunger, starvation, insecurity in th 3rd world and people wud do anything to escape that. it doesnt matter if they have to be illegal . imagine staying in a country for 14yrs not been able to travel or seeyour loved one. lots of births ,lot of death but you can be there to celebrate.

as for crime or working .some people working. some people havent got the nerve for crime. some times it does pay. dont hate me yet listen to this story .
a boy i know was involved in money laundry and fraud he was illegal and i kept telling him to stop it and get a cleaning job. i said britain is good, if you dont get into trouble you can stay here for years save up and go back home. he went to an halifax bank one day to collect some fraudulent money and was arrested. he immediately sought asylum and married his eea girl friend and was given five years stay. but here is this guy who has been working for 14 yrs but no papers.
some time the system rewards the criminal.
just hope and pray.

still hate me?

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Working whilst applying for ILR under 14 year rule

Working whilst applying for ILR under 14 year rule