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What are you going on about? IF ILR is the same thing as a permanent resident and that is the ultimate goal, they why do you think your ILR is in jeopardy. There are so many threads on this, it would help if you would read through them because people like you start a panic by being so lacksidasical in your thinking processiceman010899 wrote:hey,
I've read all the topics on this subject and still dont undertand what will happen to the 100,000's of ILR holders when the new citizenship rules comes in next year !
Will current ILR holders somehow be effected ???? Can we remain as permanent residents ?? OR will the new rules matter when we apply for citizenship ??
The BIA website quotes "On 20 February 2008 the Government published the Green Paper 'The Path to Citizenship: Next Steps in Reforming the Immigration System'. In this document we outlined our proposals for changing the way that someone can become a British citizen or remain here as a permanent resident"
Thanks.
I agree with the above. There is no way that UKBA can and will revoke already granted ILRs. At worst there could be some transitional arrangements that may be put in place for existing ILR holders to get to the naturalization stage, but my (optimistic) guess is that under the new rules existing ILR holders will still qualify for naturalization on the existing rules.IF ILR is the same thing as a permanent resident and that is the ultimate goal, they why do you think your ILR is in jeopardy.
republique wrote:What are you going on about? IF ILR is the same thing as a permanent resident and that is the ultimate goal, they why do you think your ILR is in jeopardy. There are so many threads on this, it would help if you would read through them because people like you start a panic by being so lacksidasical in your thinking processiceman010899 wrote:hey,
I've read all the topics on this subject and still dont undertand what will happen to the 100,000's of ILR holders when the new citizenship rules comes in next year !
Will current ILR holders somehow be effected ???? Can we remain as permanent residents ?? OR will the new rules matter when we apply for citizenship ??
The BIA website quotes "On 20 February 2008 the Government published the Green Paper 'The Path to Citizenship: Next Steps in Reforming the Immigration System'. In this document we outlined our proposals for changing the way that someone can become a British citizen or remain here as a permanent resident"
Thanks.
Well first of all, if the company dismissed someone with ILR bc they don't understand the rules, then they can be sued. Second, just because a company is so ignorant does not mean the HO will somehow forget the purpose of their own visas. Third whatever the govt concerns and the resulting changing of the route to citizenship, it doesn't change the fact that an ILR is a permanent resident permit. Full stop. So I completely disagree that it is an open question as to ILR. There is no need to worry that somehow your ILR is going to be somehow revoked or discounted. Yes, people can express opinions but it behooves them to read and understand the proposals being put up and NOT throw up reckless beliefs based on not reading the proposals or by failing to read them thoroughly. You must be responsible in discussing your concerns by not creating a panic based on ignorance. It is the same thing as yelling Fire when there is no smoke but because someone simply used a match to smoke a cigarette.jei2 wrote:
I know of one company for example, that dismissed all its ILR holders under the premise that they didn't have the right to work. Such scenarios tend to put more pressure on the victim to apply for citizenship (if they can get it) than on the employers to understand the right to work requirements.
The harsh truth is that right now the government is more concerned with pacifying certain parts of the electorate and we have a new Immigration Minister.
No-one here knows exactly what's going to happen and all people are really doing is expressing opinions, concerns, expectations and hopes.
What's wrong with that?
It isn't apparent. It is permanent. FULL STOP.jei2 wrote:republique,
My point was that iceman was posing an open question for someone to answer rather than trying to cause panic. A potential two tier ILR system, transitional protection, probationary citizenship, are issues which should be discussed if individuals are to understand their position fully.
And like I said, try to not be so lazy in one's thought process to cause undue anxiety. Sure discuss it but it is pretty clear ILR is not going to be suddenly invalid once you have acquired it.
The issue of companies sacking those with ILR is not an argument for the government making changes. It's simply an illustration of the problems that could arise from the confusion. Not every one is going to run to an employment tribunal, even assuming that they know their rights. Likewise landlords who ask to see a British passport before renting property.
That is very extreme. And a good way to create undue anxiety intentioned or not. There is no way landlords would only rent to people with British passports, then there would be no one else to rip off and as for companies sacking people ILR, again just as silly. If you are fired, you get unemployment and if sacked wrongly that is a fantastically wonderful lawsuit in your favour. HR reps are not so ill informed.
These are the practical concerns that the new rules will bring and which I believe could create as others have stated (and despite the apparent permanency of ILR status), a carrot and stick pressure towards applying for citizenship.
republique,republique wrote:It isn't apparent. It is permanent. FULL STOP.jei2 wrote:republique,
My point was that iceman was posing an open question for someone to answer rather than trying to cause panic. A potential two tier ILR system, transitional protection, probationary citizenship, are issues which should be discussed if individuals are to understand their position fully.
And like I said, try to not be so lazy in one's thought process to cause undue anxiety. Sure discuss it but it is pretty clear ILR is not going to be suddenly invalid once you have acquired it.
The issue of companies sacking those with ILR is not an argument for the government making changes. It's simply an illustration of the problems that could arise from the confusion. Not every one is going to run to an employment tribunal, even assuming that they know their rights. Likewise landlords who ask to see a British passport before renting property.
That is very extreme. And a good way to create undue anxiety intentioned or not. There is no way landlords would only rent to people with British passports, then there would be no one else to rip off and as for companies sacking people ILR, again just as silly. If you are fired, you get unemployment and if sacked wrongly that is a fantastically wonderful lawsuit in your favour. HR reps are not so ill informed.
These are the practical concerns that the new rules will bring and which I believe could create as others have stated (and despite the apparent permanency of ILR status), a carrot and stick pressure towards applying for citizenship.
Fair point.Christophe wrote:To be fair, the Home Office advice to employers about the right of people with ILR to work in the UK is pretty clear. It would be a stupid employer who laid off staff with ILR on the basis that ILR holders didn't have the right to employment in the UK — it could also be, of course, that the employer was simply being disingenuous and hoping that none of the laid-off staff would pursue the matter (and I desperately hope that the laid-off staff in the situation you mentioned earlier did pursue the matter).
(
In that case, to state the obvious, a different lawyer is needed. Perhaps one that specialises in immigration matters would be better...jei2 wrote:Some have tried to pursue the matter - only to find that employment lawyers aren't clear on their position either. You'd be amazed at the level of ignorance out there.
None of that stuff detracts from the fact that ILR is Permanent and indicating otherwise which many posts have not just implied but have just said outright is inappropriate.jei2 wrote:
republique,
Let me make myself clear.
This is not supposition; these things are already happening.
For my part, the permanency of ILR is not on the witness stand - only what it signifies to external agencies. Sadly not all of us here will have your gargantuan powers of reasoning.
My point remains that those who have control over the everyday lives of other people ie landlords, employers, banks may not all understand the complexities of ILR.
Moreover if people are being pushed towards British citizenship then ILR will become at worst seen as a transitory status, and at best part of a two tier system.
The introduction of PBS will most certainly result in difficulties unless the Home Office provide greater clarification to employers about who has the right to work, inlcuding those with ILR.
This is a forum for sharing information, and for clarifying issues and concerns. Accusing others of attempting to create panic for raising theirs is pointless and repressive.