New citizenship rules

[jei2]

republique,

Let me make myself clear.

This is not supposition; these things are already happening.

For my part, the permanency of ILR is not on the witness stand - only what it signifies to external agencies. Sadly not all of us here will have your gargantuan powers of reasoning.

My point remains that those who have control over the everyday lives of other people ie landlords, employers, banks may not all understand the complexities of ILR.

Moreover if people are being pushed towards British citizenship then ILR will become at worst seen as a transitory status, and at best part of a two tier system.

The introduction of PBS will most certainly result in difficulties unless the Home Office provide greater clarification to employers about who has the right to work, inlcuding those with ILR.

This is a forum for sharing information, and for clarifying issues and concerns. Accusing others of attempting to create panic for raising theirs is pointless and repressive.

None of that stuff detracts from the fact that ILR is Permanent and indicating otherwise which many posts have not just implied but have just said outright is inappropriate.
As for these things already happening, many things are happening and like many things you have to deal with it as it comes. It is not at some record level that I would call it a phenomena of some sort.
And stop with this boo hoo stuff that we are sharing info, Yeah sure share info. No problem but do not belabor facts that do not exist. ILR is permanent. If employers are doing wrong, than the issue is employers are doing wrong or as you just mentionned the HO should do better advertising. NOT ILR is in jeopardy. It isn't so move on from that point.

Chill out.

You seem to be the only one here that's panicking because evidently you haven't understood a word I've written.

Guess I'll have to revise my opinion.

[republique]

Chill out.

You seem to be the only one here that's panicking because evidently you haven't understood a word I've written.

Guess I'll have to revise my opinion.

Incredible, that is how I characterize your posting. A lack of understanding of what I have written and clearly many posts have backed my position which you don't seem to understand.

I think your problem is your thinking is very linear.
You can only keep in memory what you posted or just refer to the last post
as opposed to taking a holistic approach.

Give it a try and reread the whole thread. Perhaps you will figure it out after that.

[jei2]

Ok, last try.

Since it appears that you're still struggling, I'm not that concerned with the issue of whether ILR is going, coming or in post-orgasmic throes.

My focus is on the per-cep-tions by some external agencies of what ILR will sig-ni-fy as they aim to stay within the limits of the law. Whether or not ILR is PERMANENT. Have you got it now?

Since you're clearly desperate to have a fight with somebody about sod all, there are quite a few here who like to kick mule now and again. Stay put. I prefer to chill. Sometimes.

Stop hyperventilating over what was originally a simple enquiry and relax. Jeez!!

[iceman010899]

hey dudes,

Right, so we all agree that ILR is permanent and that it wont become something temporary under the new rules. OR WILL IT ????

There isnt much info on this and its driving me nuts !

Republique are you a women ? just out of interest.

[republique]

hey dudes,

Right, so we all agree that ILR is permanent and that it wont become something temporary under the new rules. OR WILL IT ????

There isnt much info on this and its driving me nuts !

Republique are you a women ? just out of interest.

Iceman, you keep asking the same question in the last 20 posts you have made. And you keep getting an answer but you choose to keep asking the question as if it still isn't clear as to what is the answer.

You are an Italian, right? just out of curiosity?

[JAJ]

hey dudes,

Right, so we all agree that ILR is permanent and that it wont become something temporary under the new rules. OR WILL IT ????

There isnt much info on this and its driving me nuts !

It is open to the government and Parliament to insist that ILR holders move back to being temporary residents.

Whether they would do so is another question.

But you do need to understand that as an ILR holder, you are not a British citizen and hence remain subject to the immigration laws.

[republique]

hey dudes,

Right, so we all agree that ILR is permanent and that it wont become something temporary under the new rules. OR WILL IT ????

There isnt much info on this and its driving me nuts !

It is open to the government and Parliament to insist that ILR holders move back to being temporary residents.

Whether they would do so is another question.

But you do need to understand that as an ILR holder, you are not a British citizen and hence remain subject to the immigration laws.

What? I completely disagree and I am really surprised you would say that. There is no way the status of current ILR holders would be reduced to temporary residency.

[JAJ]

What? I completely disagree and I am really surprised you would say that. There is no way the status of current ILR holders would be reduced to temporary residency.

Why? The fact that it probably wouldn't happen doesn't mean that it couldn't happen.

Once again. Parliament can legislate as it pleases.

[republique]

What? I completely disagree and I am really surprised you would say that. There is no way the status of current ILR holders would be reduced to temporary residency.

Why? The fact that it probably wouldn't happen doesn't mean that it couldn't happen.

Once again. Parliament can legislate as it pleases.

Yes it can but it can't take away what you already have.
That is a basic principle of law.

[JAJ]

Once again. Parliament can legislate as it pleases.

Yes it can but it can't take away what you already have.
That is a basic principle of law.

Yes it can. It's been done with citizenship when colonies became independent.

No Parliament can bind its successors - now that is a "basic principle" of British law.

And by the way, I am not going to get into a "yes it can, no it can't" argument with you. It is perfectly clear that Parliament can do what it likes and if you wish to assert otherwise, you need to provided better references than your own opinion.

[republique]

Once again. Parliament can legislate as it pleases.

Yes it can but it can't take away what you already have.
That is a basic principle of law.

Yes it can. It's been done with citizenship when colonies became independent.

No Parliament can bind its successors - now that is a "basic principle" of British law.

And by the way, I am not going to get into a "yes it can, no it can't" argument with you. It is perfectly clear that Parliament can do what it likes and if you wish to assert otherwise, you need to provided better references than your own opinion.

I think the HSMP debacle is a perfect example.
As for the colonies, that is not even analogous to the issue being discussed.

[Frontier Mole]

ILR is easily removed and regularly happens! It is in the rules as it stands today BUT admittedly under very strict circumstances.
Criminal deports as one example, it happens all the time, ILR is revoked and off they go to their country of origin. Even those with full refugee status can go the same route.

So to say once you have got ILR it can not be removed is not accurate.

The only way to ensure status is to have citizenship, even then if obtained using deception you can still lose that! Good few Albanian "Cosovans" have found that to their cost......

[republique]

ILR is easily removed and regularly happens! It is in the rules as it stands today BUT admittedly under very strict circumstances.
Criminal deports as one example, it happens all the time, ILR is revoked and off they go to their country of origin. Even those with full refugee status can go the same route.

So to say once you have got ILR it can not be removed is not accurate.

The only way to ensure status is to have citizenship, even then if obtained using deception you can still lose that! Good few Albanian "Cosovans" have found that to their cost......

They can change how you obtain it.
They can't just take it away once you get it.
Sorry. Despite all the history of changes, in essence nothing was ever reduced from what it was after a person obtains it. What you guys refer to has to do with obtaining it when you haven't got it yet and perhaps what it becomes later. Even with phasing out of other programs, a status obtained, the benefits of such status has never been obliterated once the status has been obtained
The examples you have provided are still not in line with this principle because it is not the same government/country.
Regarding loss due to criminality, again this is already the condition of the status. This is not the same as what you are implying about the ability of legislating something to be taken away after it has been issued.

[raghu_tallam]

As per the Guardian article, the new probationary citizenship rules that Home Secretary announced will apply only to new immigrants arrived after 2010 or after the rules are being passed in parliament.

---------------
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008 ... mmigration

Changes will apply to new arrivals after the new laws are passed, and not to foreigners already living in the UK, so reforms are only likely to affect migrants arriving from 2010.

----------------------------------------

Can someone confirm this? or do the new rules apply to existing immigrants who are due to apply for ILR in 2011 and Citizenship in 2012 etc?

Thanks
Raghu

[republique]

As per the Guardian article, the new probationary citizenship rules that Home Secretary announced will apply only to new immigrants arrived after 2010 or after the rules are being passed in parliament.

---------------
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008 ... mmigration

Changes will apply to new arrivals after the new laws are passed, and not to foreigners already living in the UK, so reforms are only likely to affect migrants arriving from 2010.

----------------------------------------

Can someone confirm this? or do the new rules apply to existing immigrants who are due to apply for ILR in 2011 and Citizenship in 2012 etc?

Thanks
Raghu

Check back in 2011 and i will confirm it

[JAJ]

As of now, it is pointless to speculate until we see what the Bill says. And even then, it may not answer all the questions.