Naturalisation for spouse

[Maxim88]

Dear gurus,

I started my wife's naturalisation application in April/May, but it got delayed because we had to travel abroad over the summer and moved house, so we never submitted it. We are now ready to submit the application and my question is that should i continue with the old application which we started in April/May, or should we rather fill a new application, in case new changes were made to the application process? If we have to start new, will the system allow me to fill a new application?

I have already naturalised (through 5 year Tier 2 General/ILR), and my understanding is that my wife is eligible to apply both as a spouse of British citizen as well as ILR holder for over 12 months.

many thanks!

[CR001]

Applications only remain live on the system for 10 weeks then they are usually deleted.

Best to start a new application anyway.

[contorted_svy]

Dear gurus,

I started my wife's naturalisation application in April/May, but it got delayed because we had to travel abroad over the summer and moved house, so we never submitted it. We are now ready to submit the application and my question is that should i continue with the old application which we started in April/May, or should we rather fill a new application, in case new changes were made to the application process? If we have to start new, will the system allow me to fill a new application?

I have already naturalised (through 5 year Tier 2 General/ILR), and my understanding is that my wife is eligible to apply both as a spouse of British citizen as well as ILR holder for over 12 months.

many thanks!

The system will let you start a new application.

[Maxim88]

Thanks for prompt replies.

If one is eligible for naturalisation through both routes (5 year residency as well as spouse of British citizen), is either one of these a more preferable route?

thanks

[AmazonianX]

Thanks for prompt replies.

If one is eligible for naturalisation through both routes (5 year residency as well as spouse of British citizen), is either one of these a more preferable route?

thanks

I don't think.it makes a at point of naturalisation now

[contorted_svy]

Thanks for prompt replies.

If one is eligible for naturalisation through both routes (5 year residency as well as spouse of British citizen), is either one of these a more preferable route?

thanks

No, but you will need to provide different documents (marriage certificate).

[Maxim88]

Dear Gurus,

We completed my wife's application (not submitted yet) and would appreciate your assistance on following:

1) We want to apply via the 5 year ILR route, but during the application it asks for spouse's (mine) details and whether they are a British Citizen, and once your tick yes it automatically asks for further details of the spouse and in the end it asks for spouse's British passport and wedding certificate to be supplied. We wanted to go via the 5 route to minimise the number of documents supplied, but once you answer details about the spouse, it seems like the system automatically assesses my wife's application as a spouse of British Citizen (i.e. 3 year). Is there no way to select the 5 year route in this case?

2) If we have to go with 3 year route and have to supply the marriage certificate, would supplying marriage certificate issued abroad be an issue? (we got married outside the UK but have certified translation of the marriage certificate, and this certificate was in fact used for my wife's previous successful PBS dependant applications).

3) The online system asks only about current employment and does not ask to supply employment for the past 10 years/since arriving in the UK. I remember I had to do this only last year for my own application and had to list everything for past 10 years. Is this normal and we really don't have to supply her previous employments?

many thanks.

[meself2]

The online system asks only about current employment and does not ask to supply employment for the past 10 years/since arriving in the UK. I remember I had to do this only last year for my own application and had to list everything for past 10 years. Is this normal and we really don't have to supply her previous employments?

No you didn't do anything wrong - the 10 year employment history has been scrapped (as of 28 June 2022). Only your current employment is required.

[Ticktack]

Dear Gurus,

We completed my wife's application (not submitted yet) and would appreciate your assistance on following:

1) We want to apply via the 5 year ILR route, but during the application it asks for spouse's (mine) details and whether they are a British Citizen, and once your tick yes it automatically asks for further details of the spouse and in the end it asks for spouse's British passport and wedding certificate to be supplied. We wanted to go via the 5 route to minimise the number of documents supplied, but once you answer details about the spouse, it seems like the system automatically assesses my wife's application as a spouse of British Citizen (i.e. 3 year). Is there no way to select the 5 year route in this case? After her ILR, she needs to wait for 1 year. She doesn't need to say spouse is British, then the system would naturally process her independently of you.

2) If we have to go with 3 year route and have to supply the marriage certificate, would supplying marriage certificate issued abroad be an issue? (we got married outside the UK but have certified translation of the marriage certificate, and this certificate was in fact used for my wife's previous successful PBS dependant applications). If you've used it before and it was accepted. Then you can use it again. They HO cannot disregard a document that has previously been accepted as OK.

3) The online system asks only about current employment and does not ask to supply employment for the past 10 years/since arriving in the UK. I remember I had to do this only last year for my own application and had to list everything for past 10 years. Is this normal and we really don't have to supply her previous employments?

many thanks.

[Maxim88]

Many thanks for your responses.

1) Are you suggesting we do not indicate in the application her spouse is BC? Is this info not essential though? The system asks, and if we don't say, would it not be regarded as deception or inaccurate/incomplete information, etc.? She has been in the UK for more than 12 months with ILR and qualifies for naturalisation both as a spouse of BC as well as through the 5 year route. Our preference would be a 5 year route as it requires fewer documents, but the system automatically asks for spouse details and spouse documents, so automatically assesses her through the 3 year route. Is there a way to do it through 5 year or should we go as a spouse of BC. I hope this is not confusing. Please suggest what is best.

2) Another question arose - proof of living in the UK - her passport has all the UK entry stamps, apart from our last trip. For some reason when we came back to the UK last year the officer did not stamp our passports. We were both with ILR. I was worried about it when I applied for naturalisation earlier this year but no issues were raised in my case and i did not submit any other extra documents/evidence as proof. Would this one missing UK entry stamp be an issue for my wife's application? She satisfies the requirements in terms of being present and absences, but the last UK entry stamp is missing in passport. Please advice.

many thanks.

[Ticktack]

Many thanks for your responses.

1) Are you suggesting we do not indicate in the application her spouse is BC? Is this info not essential though? The system asks, and if we don't say, would it not be regarded as deception or inaccurate/incomplete information, etc.? She has been in the UK for more than 12 months with ILR and qualifies for naturalisation both as a spouse of BC as well as through the 5 year route. Our preference would be a 5 year route as it requires fewer documents, but the system automatically asks for spouse details and spouse documents, so automatically assesses her through the 3 year route. Is there a way to do it through 5 year or should we go as a spouse of BC. I hope this is not confusing. Please suggest what is best. Naturalisation is personal. There's no influence from the spouse. The only influence you as a Brit can give to your spouse is to knock off the 1 year waiting period and get her assessed with the 3 years. If you don't want that option, you don't have to use it. It's not compulsory to say spouse is British. If she sticks with your original nationality, that's not a lie is it? You can claim any country you have citizenship. One or the other! If you decide to stick with the British spouse for your rest of mind. Then don't add all the docs to prove spouse is Brit like British passport/ naturalisation cert. Your choice entirely.

2) Another question arose - proof of living in the UK - her passport has all the UK entry stamps, apart from our last trip. For some reason when we came back to the UK last year the officer did not stamp our passports. We were both with ILR. I was worried about it when I applied for naturalisation earlier this year but no issues were raised in my case and i did not submit any other extra documents/evidence as proof. Would this one missing UK entry stamp be an issue for my wife's application? She satisfies the requirements in terms of being present and absences, but the last UK entry stamp is missing in passport. Please advice. Passport would suffice regardless, as it was in your case. They have all your exits and entries on the central database. They just like to crosscheck/verify.

many thanks.

[alterhase58]

Regarding point 1:
My personal experience, from the paper days - I applied based on five years, was asked about spouse (British) and provided data, didn't include spouse documents, was approved, and certificate shows Section 6(2), spouse of BC!
I must admit, at that time I didn't understand the rules completely ....

[Maxim88]

Dear friends, thanks for your responses so far, this is really helpful. I have only one lingering issue:

Regarding the first point above - the online system does not seem to allow me to put ONLY my original nationality in my wife's application. In section about the partner it clearly states "You must enter all the nationalities they hold" - so i assume we cannot not include my British nationality as a spouse here. And when you select British nationality for spouse, it also asks "Is your partner a naturalised British citizen?". In other words, it looks like the system requires my details as a British citizen and as a result automatically seems to assess my wife's application on the basis of the 3 year route (partner of BC). Our dilemma here is as follows: if we apply through the 3 year route (this automatically seems to happen when we answer all the questions), she needs to provide our marriage certificate which has been issued abroad. It is translated into English etc., but it has our patronymics - in countries where we come from besides our first and second names we also have patronymics - but this is not indicated in our foreign passports but only in our birth certificates and internal ID documents, which were used when getting married. Basically, we both have patronymics in our marriage certificate which is not indicated anywhere in the UK immigration system, nor in our visas or ILRs. However, this very same marriage certificate was used successfully several years ago when my wife came to join me as a Tier 2 dependant and she subsequently extended her dependant visa and finally got ILR. The same marriage certificate was always used in previous applications and there was no issues before. Because this is a naturalisation application i am naturally more anxious and don't want to make any mistakes or give them any reasons to create an issue with my wife's application. Hence can you please suggest whether sending the marriage certificate that was used successfully for my wife's previous UK visa applications but which shows our patronymics, could be an issue for her naturalisation application, or its fine and i am overthinking this?

This is why we originally wanted my wife to apply through the 5 year route so that no extra documents are attached to her application. She is eligible for naturalisation through both routes. However, as explained, the system does not seem to allow us submit her application as a 5 year route. Alternatively, can we perhaps complete the application as it is, give them all the documents they want, including marriage certificate and partner's British passport etc. (because the checklist of documents asks all of this), but write a cover letter to say that the applicant wants her application to be considered through the 5 year route, rather than the 3 year route/as a partner of BC? Is this a possibility?

Very thankful for your support!

[AmazonianX]

Dear friends, thanks for your responses so far, this is really helpful. I have only one lingering issue:

Regarding the first point above - the online system does not seem to allow me to put ONLY my original nationality in my wife's application. In section about the partner it clearly states "You must enter all the nationalities they hold" - so i assume we cannot not include my British nationality as a spouse here. And when you select British nationality for spouse, it also asks "Is your partner a naturalised British citizen?". In other words, it looks like the system requires my details as a British citizen and as a result automatically seems to assess my wife's application on the basis of the 3 year route (partner of BC). Our dilemma here is as follows: if we apply through the 3 year route (this automatically seems to happen when we answer all the questions), she needs to provide our marriage certificate which has been issued abroad. It is translated into English etc., but it has our patronymics - in countries where we come from besides our first and second names we also have patronymics - but this is not indicated in our foreign passports but only in our birth certificates and internal ID documents, which were used when getting married. Basically, we both have patronymics in our marriage certificate which is not indicated anywhere in the UK immigration system, nor in our visas or ILRs. However, this very same marriage certificate was used successfully several years ago when my wife came to join me as a Tier 2 dependant and she subsequently extended her dependant visa and finally got ILR. The same marriage certificate was always used in previous applications and there was no issues before. Because this is a naturalisation application i am naturally more anxious and don't want to make any mistakes or give them any reasons to create an issue with my wife's application. Hence can you please suggest whether sending the marriage certificate that was used successfully for my wife's previous UK visa applications but which shows our patronymics, could be an issue for her naturalisation application, or its fine and i am overthinking this? It should not cause you any issues, the CW are trained to have understanding of world views. Also, said certificate of marriage already used successfully in the past. For rest of mind you may include a cover note detailing same things you explained above.

This is why we originally wanted my wife to apply through the 5 year route so that no extra documents are attached to her application. She is eligible for naturalisation through both routes. However, as explained, the system does not seem to allow us submit her application as a 5 year route. Alternatively, can we perhaps complete the application as it is, give them all the documents they want, including marriage certificate and partner's British passport etc. (because the checklist of documents asks all of this), but write a cover letter to say that the applicant wants her application to be considered through the 5 year route, rather than the 3 year route/as a partner of BC? Is this a possibility?

Very thankful for your support!

[Maxim88]

Thank you AmazonianX,

Can other gurus also share thoughts on my questions above please? Having some more opinions (especially around using the above described certificate of marriage) would be really helpful, as we want to submit my wife's naturalisation application asap.

Many thanks in advance.

[Ticktack]

Thank you AmazonianX,

Can other gurus also share thoughts on my questions above please? Having some more opinions (especially around using the above described certificate of marriage) would be really helpful, as we want to submit my wife's naturalisation application asap.

Many thanks in advance.

AmazonianX was spot on. The HO has already agreed that you're married based on the same wedding certificate. They can't say you're not married anymore.

You're completely overthinking it. they know the rules.

Most immigrants here marry outside the UK. I'm sure less that 10% have UK marriage certificates. They've seen it all.

[Maxim88]

Dear friends,

Thanks for your help so far. We are making last minute checks to the application before submission - and one of the questions confused me. My wife passed Trinity College B1 test which we used for her ILR. On question about "How did you get your results" we have ticked the "Certificate" option. There was another option - "Online reference number". We received results both as a ref through email and as a physical certificate. The UKVI website says that "You need to have a certificate to prove you have the qualification, or be able to view your results online.", however the naturalisation guide says that for tests taken after 2015 you must provide the unique reference number and no physical evidence is required.

My confusion/question is - do we tick the "certificate" option or should we tick the "Online reference number" option? For her ILR we ticked the "certificate" option and simply uploaded the certificate and for consistency that's what i was intending to do for her Naturalisation application too. But the guidance seems to say specifically that you have to put the online reference number (which is on the certificate anyway). It even says "After you pass the test, you will be given a SELT unique reference number which you must use when making your application. If you do not include your reference number, your application may be refused.". Again, this number is on the Certificate anyway... I am probably overthinking this again, but an advice would be helpful please on which option to tick here. Either way, we have the certificate and the online ref number, it is just we wanted to keep consistent with her ILR application and tick certificate and upload it. But now i am not sure. If we tick the online ref number, this answer will be different from her ILR application, is this an issue then...?

thanks

[AmazonianX]

Either one you choose only ensure you also upload scanned copy of the English test result

[Maxim88]

Dear friends

Another confusing, but hopefully a quick question. On section about employment details, it asks about start date of employment. My wife’s situation is such that she has worked for the same company/for the same parent company, but worked in different stores/brands within the company over the last 5 years. Her employment record is like this:

September 2017 – September 2019 (employed in Company A)
September 2019 – September 2021 (employed in Company B)
September 2021 – present (employed in Company A)

Note that both Company A and Company B are part of the same group. She first worked in one brand/store (Company A), then moved to another (Company B), then back again into the previous brand/store (back to Company A). However, everytime she moved from Company A to Company B and then again back to Company A, she received P45s and then received new contacts. As if everytime she was ending employment with one employer and starting with another. In other words, whilst both Companies A and B are part of the same wider group/bigger company, they oficially operate as separate entities. She once asked HR why she received P45 even though she is simply transferring from one brand to another and they said whilst they are part of the same brand/company, they are technically different companies. And I checked her P45s and the Employer PAYE numbers are different between Company A and Company B.

Whilst her latest employment began in September 2021, she has worked for the same company/group for over 5 years. And for the purposes of the company itselt, she is considered to have been continuously employed within the company/group for over 5 years (and in fact she receives a fixed loyalty commission for having been loyal to the same group for 5 years now). But again, everytime she moved “within” the bigger company, she received p45s.

So my question is – do we put her employment start date as September 2021 (as this is when she received her most recent contract, and was given P45 from her previous company just before she started), or we put the very first date when she started working for the company in general (i.e. September 2017), although since 2017 she has a couple of p45s? I was definitely going to put her most recent employment as her start date (i.e. September 2021), but wanted to double check. Really hope you can advice here. Thanks again!

[alterhase58]

Just declare the current employment and start date, history is not required, and I guess the finer details of employment practices are beyond the caseworker's remit.

[Maxim88]

Folks, I hope you don’t mind another quick question.

My wife’s employer has changed its name since she started working there. We only realised when we looked at payslips and seen the employer name has changed a while ago. She emailed the HR and they confirmed the company is now officially known under a different name. It is a pretty big and well known multinational so I guess they had their reasons for changing the name (stores and brands under which they work remain unchanged). While the name has changed (in her payslips and most recent P60 from April 2022 the employer is shown under its new/updated name), the employer PAYE number, which is required in the naturalisation application, is unchanged and the same as before. This was the background.

My question – she received a Tax Code Notice from HMRC in February/March 2022 and their records showed her being employed still under her employer’s old name. Is this an issue? In her naturalisation application we will put her employer’s changed name as this is what is shown in her payslips and her most recent P60, but do we also need to mention in the application or in a cover letter that her employer was previously known under a different name (I am thinking of that HMRC’s letter from March 2022 where her employer for some reason is still under its old name)? Or may be I am overthinking this again and mentionin this is not needed? I don’t want to complicate it and add unnecessary information if this is not needed, but I also don’t want there to be a problem and HO to say the employer name is wrong based on HMRC records or something like this.

Please advice, we would be much obliged. We really want to submit asap, its been too long.

[Maxim88]

Dear Gurus, any advice on the above question please?

many thanks.

[alterhase58]

As I previously mentioned the caseworker won’t be investigating the finer point of employment practices, or company reorganisations. And in principle employment as such is not a pre-requisite to apply. From personal experience my employers at the times had also changed their name but PAYE references never changed.
Of course you are free to explain everything in detail but I would think it doesn’t really add anything useful to the application. Though a case worker might spend additional time trying to understand the scenario.

[AmazonianX]

Folks, I hope you don’t mind another quick question.

My wife’s employer has changed its name since she started working there. We only realised when we looked at payslips and seen the employer name has changed a while ago. She emailed the HR and they confirmed the company is now officially known under a different name. It is a pretty big and well known multinational so I guess they had their reasons for changing the name (stores and brands under which they work remain unchanged). While the name has changed (in her payslips and most recent P60 from April 2022 the employer is shown under its new/updated name), the employer PAYE number, which is required in the naturalisation application, is unchanged and the same as before. This was the background.

My question – she received a Tax Code Notice from HMRC in February/March 2022 and their records showed her being employed still under her employer’s old name. Is this an issue? In her naturalisation application we will put her employer’s changed name as this is what is shown in her payslips and her most recent P60, but do we also need to mention in the application or in a cover letter that her employer was previously known under a different name (I am thinking of that HMRC’s letter from March 2022 where her employer for some reason is still under its old name)? Or may be I am overthinking this again and mentionin this is not needed? [
Yes you are overthinking, employment status is not a requirement[ I don’t want to complicate it and add unnecessary information if this is not needed, but I also don’t want there to be a problem and HO to say the employer name is wrong based on HMRC records or something like this.

Please advice, we would be much obliged. We really want to submit asap, its been too long.

[Maxim88]

Folks, thanks so much for your help so far. We have submitted the application and trying to book an appointment to submit the biometrics and i am amazed to see there are no free appointments? Everything starts from around £130-£150 per appointment... even though i saw on gov.uk before applying that it said we don't need to pay for the appointment. Am i missing something here, and the appointments are not free after all? Or is there a way to get a free appointment...? Please advice.