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Concession and Returning back to the UK

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

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jilly cooper
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Concession and Returning back to the UK

Post by jilly cooper » Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:20 pm

Hi all,

My appeal was dismissed on the day of my hearing. After I received the determination, I left the country voluntarily, paying my own ticket, before 1 October 2008.

As my passport was with the HO, they asked me to go to their office at Hounslow. The staff were really nice and accommodating. I did not feel as if I was being looked down. The man explained what's going on. I was given paper works and my passport was given to me one hour before my departure.

My question is this. When can I come back to the UK? I know that the concession is one year, however, there seems to be conflicting stories surrounding this concession as I was able to exchange information with someone and he told me, he overstayed (after the refusal of his Indefinite Leave to Remain on the basis of 10 year residency), left the country and came back as a work permit holder after only 3 weeks.

Can somebody clarify this concession please for me as its doing my heading.

Also, can someone recommend an immigration lawyer please that can process work permit but at the same time know the tricks about my past immigration experience.

Thanks in advance.

Jilly Cooper

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Post by PaperPusher » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:09 pm

Hello jilly cooper

Work permits have now gone. You are not going to benefit from any transitional arrangements to do with work permits because you were working in breach of your conditions "work and any changes must be authorised" as I am sure it said in your passport. You are also now out of the UK and your previous leave has expired.
Also, can someone recommend an immigration lawyer please that can process work permit but at the same time know the tricks about my past immigration experience.
Immigration lawyers are NOT able to proccess/send Tier 2 applications. If the HO knows that they are doing this, they will refuse it.

You will need to find an employer willing to sponsor you, and you will need to be able to score the correct number of points in Tier 2.

jei2
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Post by jei2 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:14 pm

I'm not sure what you're waiting for.

If you left before 1 October 2008, you can apply to come back straight away.

Looking at your previous threads, there are others who have overstayed and worked illegally for longer and are now back in the UK on various visas.

But have you got a job offer from a licensed employer?
Oh, the drama...!

jilly cooper
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Post by jilly cooper » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:11 pm

jei2 wrote:I'm not sure what you're waiting for.

If you left before 1 October 2008, you can apply to come back straight away.

Looking at your previous threads, there are others who have overstayed and worked illegally for longer and are now back in the UK on various visas.

But have you got a job offer from a licensed employer?

Hiya, thanks for the swift reply. My understanding, based on my conversation with the HO Officer, was that I can be allowed to go back to the UK after 12 months.

Clearly, I am mistaken. However, are we really sure that this is the case? Is there any chance I can actually read, or at least can someone redirect me, about this concession?

I have been exchaning email from one poster here. He overtsyaed, he left for 3 weeks and now back in the UK again.

I do have a prospective employer that is willing to sponsor me.

Can I ask anyone who overstayed, not spousal or family visa, to post their experience here please?

Jilly Cooper

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Post by Frontier Mole » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:23 pm

You have shared information with "William Blake" - but his case is not the same as yours.

He managed to return on a work permit, you will not be able to do this as that system has been cancelled. The Points Based System PBS is the new way to enter the UK for work purposes. It is a much tougher system.

You can apply to come to the UK as soon as you like as long as you meet the requirements for whatever entry visa you are seeking. If you intend to work in the UK you will have to get some form of PBS based entry.

Can I ask one question was anything stamped in your passport before you left the UK or were you given IS151D papers?

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Post by Frontier Mole » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:27 pm

I do have a prospective employer that is willing to sponsor me.
Does this employer have a PBS licence, if not they can not sponsor your entry to the UK. Even if they have a licence they have to advertise the role in the UK first. Only if there were no suitably qualified people applying for the role could he offer you the job. Even then you will need at least £800 in your bank account for three months prior to entry clearance. As I said above it is a far tougher system.

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Post by jilly cooper » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:32 pm

Frontier Mole wrote:You have shared information with "William Blake" - but his case is not the same as yours.

He managed to return on a work permit, you will not be able to do this as that system has been cancelled. The Points Based System PBS is the new way to enter the UK for work purposes. It is a much tougher system.

You can apply to come to the UK as soon as you like as long as you meet the requirements for whatever entry visa you are seeking. If you intend to work in the UK you will have to get some form of PBS based entry.

Can I ask one question was anything stamped in your passport before you left the UK or were you given IS151D papers?

I was not given IS151D. As per perusal with my papers, I have been issued with IS151A which is the Decision to Remove an Illegal Person Subject to Administrative Removal. I was also issued IS96 which is a Self Check-In. Lastly, I was issued with IS86 which is about the requirement to provide fingerprints.

On my IS96, the HO at Eaton House wrote, "IO, please don't flag pasport for this individual. AUthorised by SEO." However, upon checking my passport, which was handed back in to me two hours before the flight, the reference number that was on my AIT case was written.

Having said that, am I still allowed to be back at the UK anytime before the 12 months after my departure?

As to the PBS licence, advertisement and £800 (Is it not £8,000???), I am sure it will be sorted.

Thanks in advance.

Also, can anyone recommend an immigration lawyer who is willing to help my prospective employer for the PBS and for my entry clearance via Tier 2?

As ever, thanks in a million. Hoping to ehar any experiences here.


Jilly Cooper
[/u][/b]

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Post by Frontier Mole » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:49 pm

An immigration lawyer will not help get a PBS licence. The licence is issued once as assessment of the employers HR system is made. This is usually by someone coming out to visit the company, interviewing the authorised person / HR manager / owner etc. It is not just handed out the way WP was.

The employer will not get away with bringing over anyone he/she feels like and the fines for breaking the rules are stiff. Most of the small business organisations struggle to get a licence because it is so obvious that it is a poor attempt at getting friends and relations over to the UK. The days of no or little checks are gone. There are new UKBA teams all over the country doing pre licence visits and many firms are being refused a PBS licence. Those that do get a licence will be getting regular visits from the compliance teams to ensure they are not breaking the rules.

You are pretty dismissive of the system. I think you may be in for a shock when the employer gets the licence refused and there goes your chance of entry. Even if the licence gets issued by the way you portray the ease of how it will be dealt with I hope your employer has a spare £10000 to pay his fine!

Good luck, I think you will need it.

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Post by jilly cooper » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:10 am

Frontier Mole wrote:An immigration lawyer will not help get a PBS licence. The licence is issued once as assessment of the employers HR system is made. This is usually by someone coming out to visit the company, interviewing the authorised person / HR manager / owner etc. It is not just handed out the way WP was.

The employer will not get away with bringing over anyone he/she feels like and the fines for breaking the rules are stiff. Most of the small business organisations struggle to get a licence because it is so obvious that it is a poor attempt at getting friends and relations over to the UK. The days of no or little checks are gone. There are new UKBA teams all over the country doing pre licence visits and many firms are being refused a PBS licence. Those that do get a licence will be getting regular visits from the compliance teams to ensure they are not breaking the rules.

You are pretty dismissive of the system. I think you may be in for a shock when the employer gets the licence refused and there goes your chance of entry. Even if the licence gets issued by the way you portray the ease of how it will be dealt with I hope your employer has a spare £10000 to pay his fine!

Good luck, I think you will need it.

Frontier Mole,

I am not here to hear your lecture. If you have nothing good to say, keep your opinion to yourself. Clearly, you are full of assumption and these are all ill-informed.

My prospective employer is not a kebab shop or a Chinese take-away restaurant. My skills are in shortage list and my prospective employer is funded by the government (or the tax payers) itself. To assume that I am dismissive about the system is not only outrageous but an opinion full of ignorance and lack of breeding.

I do not want war here but if you want to start, bring it on. I do not need your opinion if it is all negative, assumption and looking down at people.
As one of the posters here says, keep your emotion to yourself. I do not know you but judging from your other posts, you need to be deflated. Your arrogance and lack of empathy is a product of your own delusion or the lack of it.

Anyway, anyone who can contribute to this question, without the bringing their own prejudice and judgments, are all welcome. I do not wish to be hijacked by someone just beause they are claiming the so and so of immigration. Let us stick with facts and avoid lecturing each other. We are no longer kids.


Jilly Cooper

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Post by Frontier Mole » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:29 am

Well if your occupation is in on the shortage list and your prospective employer is government or local government then you have a good chance.

BUT if as you say your employer is government related they do not need immigration lawyer and will have already been contacted by UKBA to help them through the licence process.

As for being dismissive of the system you were in your post. For someone who is allegedly intelligent it might have been better to point out that you occupation is on the shortage list. There is also no need to do the RLMT if that is the case. Then again if you had read the information on the UKBA site you might have understood that.

As for going to war, you might want to find out who your opponent is before you decide to go into battle. Tactically and strategically you are at a major disadvantage so be careful who you rile as the outcome may not be pleasant! Perhaps you might want to ask "William" who guided him through the system to get an idea wither you want me as friend or foe?

Read your previous posts - Something to think about - you have no right of appeal if your tier 2 EC is refused, an administraive review at best. So bearing in mind your poor immigration history even if your prospective employer was to get licenced there are still significant barriers to overcome.

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Post by Siggi » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:33 am

Jill Cooper,
I have read all your posting with great interest, you are obviously a person of intellect, but find your arrogance, leveled at Frontier Mole, who has only ever given frank and qualified answers to this forum, unexceptable.
If people don't like the answers to thier problems, dont shoot the messengers, sort your problems out yourselves.

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Post by jilly cooper » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:44 pm

Frontier Mole wrote:Well if your occupation is in on the shortage list and your prospective employer is government or local government then you have a good chance.

BUT if as you say your employer is government related they do not need immigration lawyer and will have already been contacted by UKBA to help them through the licence process.

As for being dismissive of the system you were in your post. For someone who is allegedly intelligent it might have been better to point out that you occupation is on the shortage list. There is also no need to do the RLMT if that is the case. Then again if you had read the information on the UKBA site you might have understood that.

As for going to war, you might want to find out who your opponent is before you decide to go into battle. Tactically and strategically you are at a major disadvantage so be careful who you rile as the outcome may not be pleasant! Perhaps you might want to ask "William" who guided him through the system to get an idea wither you want me as friend or foe?

Read your previous posts - Something to think about - you have no right of appeal if your tier 2 EC is refused, an administraive review at best. So bearing in mind your poor immigration history even if your prospective employer was to get licenced there are still significant barriers to overcome.

Frontier Mole,

I did not specifically asked for your advice. You reply to my query and it is not my fault you chose to. Clearly, you want to help. However, I defy people who use their knowledge so that they can look down on other people. I also loath people who thinks they are better just because they know what I do not know. If that is you, please spare my post and just ignore it.

If you want to help, help without prejudice. Help with empathy not because, it boosts your own ego maniac personality. Do not help or do not reply to the posts just because people can put you on pedestal as this is a clear manifestation of your own insecurity and superiority complex.

I do not need to know you personally. I do not even need to know who helped William as the arrow might re-direct me to you. And even if you're the father of Jacqui Smith and brother of Gordon Brown, I would rather crawl back somewhere than to have you as my acquaintance if you persist with your negative assumption, tacklessness and harsh way of dealing things.

It is good to be honest and blunt But honesty and bluntness comes with responsibilities, tact and breeding.

If you have nothing to say positive. If you will just post just because you feel better because you can look down on people. If you will just post because you want to become the who's who of immigration. I beg you, do not reply to my query.

I would rather have an empty query than to read something that is not only insulting but full of prejudice and tasteless jibes.

My immigration history might be poor but at least it is not taking away my own empathy and sense of humanity. It is not taking away my decorum and responsibility to be tactful and honest at the same time.

I do not need this rubbish from you. I posted. You replied. Please do not give me this attitude of "I will help you if you will lick my feet." It doesn't leave good taste.

We are all here to help each other not to insult each other. We are all here to get honest opinion but not to be looked down or not to be harshed. We are all here to be cyber friends not because we have to be careful because the HO is monitoring the site.

And if you cannot give me that, please keep your arrogant intelligence and your valued-opinion to yourself. I do not need it, no thank you.

So much so for that, anyone who can share their experience about my query?

Oh I forgot, Frontier Mole, regardless of your prejudice towards me, thank you for the above information. I might have given you a mouthful but at least you gave me something to think about.


Jilly Cooper

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Post by jilly cooper » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:03 pm

Siggi wrote:Jill Cooper,
I have read all your posting with great interest, you are obviously a person of intellect, but find your arrogance, leveled at Frontier Mole, who has only ever given frank and qualified answers to this forum, unexceptable.
If people don't like the answers to thier problems, dont shoot the messengers, sort your problems out yourselves.

Siggi,

I am not intelligent. I am just writing what I think is morally right and socially acceptable without giving prejudice and assumptions.

And I am sure that Frontier Mole is knowledgeable about immigration policy. But that doesn't give him the right to look down on people or be harshed just because he knows what I do not know.

People posts problems here to find answers, not to be bashed and clearly, not to be insulted or looked down. As I said above, honesty is the best policy. But it has responsibility, tact and breeding.

I am not shooting the messenger. I am shooting how the messenger delivers his message. I assume we do not want a postman that slaps our face just because we need him because we "messaging" our letters?

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Post by joe777 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:42 pm

frontier mole is not the kinda person who sweet talks you, and tells you everything will be ok, harsh sometimes, and to the point he is, but he knows what hes talking about, but if i was you , thats the way i would want it.

he is one of the most experienced on here regarding immigration matters, and i'm sure he's seen situations like yours many times, so he jumps to conculsions sometimes :wink:

but if you look back thru the thread he has also tried to help you...

and if honesty is the best policy, why do you want a immigration lawyer who knows the tricks ?

but from a fan of the mole, i wish you good luck :wink:

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Post by Frontier Mole » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:50 pm

To be fair I thought Jilly Cooper was something she is not. See what assumptions lead to!

I have apologised and hope that I can offer constructive help in a more acceptable way.

Thanks for the support from others; I think the Joe777 post sums it up very well. I do jump to conclusions but I hope that I can also offer advice that is worthwhile. I am really anti to those that go out their way to abuse the system. Jilly was never one of those people and I am sorry for thinking she was.

:D

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Post by jilly cooper » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:45 am

Frontier Mole wrote:To be fair I thought Jilly Cooper was something she is not. See what assumptions lead to!

I have apologised and hope that I can offer constructive help in a more acceptable way.

Thanks for the support from others; I think the Joe777 post sums it up very well. I do jump to conclusions but I hope that I can also offer advice that is worthwhile. I am really anti to those that go out their way to abuse the system. Jilly was never one of those people and I am sorry for thinking she was.

:D

Frontier Mole,

You are actually bigger than I previously thought. You do not need to apologise for assuming. I guess it just a reflection of my own ignorance and stupidity as I also assumed before and it did not end up well as I ended up leaving the UK.

Thank you for your honest opinion. I might not agree with the way you said it, but at least you are man enough. For that, you also deserve an apology from me. I am sorry. I am just a victim of my own circumstances.

Good luck with everything and I hope things can be sorted soon. I wish I had your astuteness and shrewdness.


Jilly Cooper

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Post by joe777 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:07 am

:D peace

maybe i'm wrong, but part of frontier moles day job concerns the removal of illegal immigrants, and in his 'spare' time he gives advice freely on this forum, to some of those people he could well help with the removal of in his day job, so it's easy for these 2 roles to overlap.. talk about a paradox or should i say ironic :wink:

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Post by PaperPusher » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:01 pm

jilly cooper

I have had a look and cannot work out what job you would be going for. You have previously mentioned being a lecturer in a college, and that sort of job is not on the shortage occupation list, it never was either. If you previously got a work permit in error then you cannot ask the HO to continue giving you permits in error, although I know you were working illegally for many years.

Please can you let us know what job you want to come back to do.
My skills are in shortage list and my prospective employer is funded by the government (or the tax payers) itself
It is not enough that your skills "are in shortage list", but the job you are going for has to be on the shortage list. Do not count on the employer getting on the list either, this is not a guarantee.

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Post by jilly cooper » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:44 pm

PaperPusher wrote:jilly cooper

I have had a look and cannot work out what job you would be going for. You have previously mentioned being a lecturer in a college, and that sort of job is not on the shortage occupation list, it never was either. If you previously got a work permit in error then you cannot ask the HO to continue giving you permits in error, although I know you were working illegally for many years.

Please can you let us know what job you want to come back to do.
My skills are in shortage list and my prospective employer is funded by the government (or the tax payers) itself
It is not enough that your skills "are in shortage list", but the job you are going for has to be on the shortage list. Do not count on the employer getting on the list either, this is not a guarantee.

Paper Pusher,

The title of my post was a Lecturer as the job was on FE (Further Education, e.g. sixth form colleges). FE and the mainstream (Year 1 to Year 11, GCSE) have difference in using title post. If you are in FE, your post-title as a teacher is a Lecturer. However, if you are in the mainstream, your post-title as a teacher is Teacher. I have the qualifications to teach both.

And yes, I worked illegally but unitentionally with all honesty. As to your question as to what job I would like to have, I would like to go back as a Teacher in the mainstream as I have a prospective employer.

It is just a question of when and how can I get an EC. Do you have any suggestions, especially, and this is hypotetical, if I can come anytime now provided that everything will be sorted and ironed? As per understanding, I am banned for one year. But people are saying this is not the case.

Anyone who can answer my query and pinpoint me to the right direction, like a website?

Thanks in a million everyone especially to Frontier Mole who might be harsh but have been empathetic and generous.


Jilly Cooper

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Post by PaperPusher » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:55 pm

FE and the mainstream (Year 1 to Year 11, GCSE) have difference in using title post. If you are in FE, your post-title as a teacher is a Lecturer. However, if you are in the mainstream, your post-title as a teacher is Teacher
I know. I also know what "FE" stands for and what it means, which is why I asked what job you are going for. I know that the post of lecturer has never been on the shortage occupation list. I also know what compulsory education means, which was where the shortage occupation posts were.
Last edited by PaperPusher on Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by PaperPusher » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:04 pm

Only these teaching jobs are on the MAC list:
Secondary education teaching professionals (2314)
ONLY the following job title within this occupation: secondary education teacher within the subjects of maths and science
What are you hoping to teach?

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Post by William Blake » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:59 pm

Jilly,

I am sorry you are having such a hard time.

I think though the position is that you are not facing a mandatory ban if you apply to return to the UK. The challenge is to find that way back.

I think one of the unfortunate effects of immigration control is that it can end up bidding us against each other. I hope you are able to get what you want and I will of course help all I can. I am sure most folks here too are interested in helping.
Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born.
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.
Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night

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Post by jei2 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:40 pm

William Blake wrote:Jilly,

I am sorry you are having such a hard time.

I think though the position is that you are not facing a mandatory ban if you apply to return to the UK. The challenge is to find that way back.

I think one of the unfortunate effects of immigration control is that it can end up bidding us against each other. I hope you are able to get what you want and I will of course help all I can. I am sure most folks here too are interested in helping.

Yes they are, aren't they WB?

Shall we all form a line so that you can thank us personally? :wink:
Oh, the drama...!

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