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Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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cuffiediem
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Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by cuffiediem » Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:34 pm

My situation:
  • - Italian Passport.
    - Moved in the UK in 2009.
    - 2013: Graduated (BSc) in a London University in Computer Science (if that matters for my connections with the UK)
    - Spent from September 2015 to November 2018 working abroad (Czech Republic).
    - Came back to the UK in November 2018.
    - Granted SS status under EU Settlement scheme in May 2020 (after proving Continuous residence between 2009 and 2014).
I am considering applying for British Naturalization based on the time-window between January 2019 and January 2023, however, there's a requirement I don't meet:
  • - Settled Status for 12 months or more? Check
    - Not more than 90 days abroad in the year preceding the application date? Check
    - Was physically in the UK exactly 5 years preceding the application date? Check
    - Max 450 days abroad in the 5 year period preceding the application? I don't pass this one:
That's because, from July 2020 to March 2021, I stayed 260 days in Italy to be around my mother that was working as nurse in a hospital during the pandemic. Adding this absence period, means that in the 5 year period preceding the application, my total absences are 588 days.

Under the official guidelines, I see:
"Absences during the qualifying period

Where an applicant has spent more than the 450 days for section 6(1) applications, or 270 days for section 6(2) applications, outside of the UK during the qualifying period you must consider exercising discretion if they meet the other requirements.

Where the applicant has absences of between 480 and 900 days for applications under section 6(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981, or 300 and 540 days for applications under section 6(2) and otherwise meets the requirements you must only consider exercising discretion where the applicant has established their home, employment, family and finances in the UK, and one or more of the following applies:

at least 2 years residence (for applications under section 6(1)), or 1 year (for applications under section 6(2)), without substantial absences immediately prior to the beginning of the qualifying period - if the period of absence is greater than 730 days (for section 6(1)) or 450 days (for section 6(2)) the period of residence must be at least 3 or 2 years respectively

the excess absences are the result of:

postings abroad in Crown service under the UK government or in service designated under section 2(3) of the British Nationality act 1981.

accompanying a British citizen spouse or civil partner on an appointment overseas

the excess absences were an unavoidable consequence of the nature of the applicant’s career, such as a merchant seaman or employment with a multinational company based in the UK with frequent travel abroad

exceptionally compelling reasons of an occupational or compassionate nature to justify naturalisation now, such as a firm job offer where British citizenship is a statutory or mandatory requirement

the applicant was prevented from being in the UK because they had been removed from the UK, and the decision to remove them was later overturned

the applicant was incorrectly prevented from resuming permanent residence in the UK following an absence

the excess absences were because the applicant was unable to return to the UK because of global pandemic
"

If I understand correctly, for the discretion to be accepted, I would need to have "established their home, employment, family and finances in the UK" AND my reason for absences due to the pandemic are convincing to the case worker.

"estabilished their home" In this context, what does it mean? during my total time in the UK, I have been living in 9+ different addresses (by paying rent as tenant). Did I establish my home?

"Employment": I have been working during my time in the UK, so that should be ok

"family and finances in the UK": I am single, and the only member of my family living abroad, does this mean I have not established my family in the UK and therefore will be refused discretion?

"the excess absences were because the applicant was unable to return to the UK because of global pandemic": I stayed 260 days in Italy to be around my mother that was working as nurse in a hospital during the pandemic, as that was a very emotionally challenging time for her. But the wording is "was unable to return to the UK", I wouldn't know how to prove that, as I don't remember if I was physically unable to return to the UK and I don't remember the constantly changing travel advisories/bans across that time-span.

Anyone has information/advice on my situation?

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by alterhase58 » Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:47 pm

Just one point:
I am considering applying for British Naturalization based on the time-window between January 2019 and January 2023,
You can't select the residency period for naturalisation - it's 5 years working back from the application date, unless I am misunderstanding this your statement.
Others will/may comment on the other points.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by cuffiediem » Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:50 pm

alterhase58 wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:47 pm
Just one point:
I am considering applying for British Naturalization based on the time-window between January 2019 and January 2023,
You can't select the residency period for naturalisation - it's 5 years working back from the application date, unless I am misunderstanding this your statement.
Others will/may comment on the other points.
You're right, I wrote it incorrectly. I meant that, I am considering applying in January 2024, so the time-window would then be between January 2019 and January 2024 (I wrote January 2023 by mistake)

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by contorted_svy » Sun Dec 24, 2023 6:22 pm

cuffiediem wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 3:34 pm
My situation:
  • - Italian Passport.
    - Moved in the UK in 2009.
    - 2013: Graduated (BSc) in a London University in Computer Science (if that matters for my connections with the UK)
    - Spent from September 2015 to November 2018 working abroad (Czech Republic).
    - Came back to the UK in November 2018.
    - Granted SS status under EU Settlement scheme in May 2020 (after proving Continuous residence between 2009 and 2014).
I am considering applying for British Naturalization based on the time-window between January 2019 and January 2023, however, there's a requirement I don't meet:
  • - Settled Status for 12 months or more? Check
    - Not more than 90 days abroad in the year preceding the application date? Check
    - Was physically in the UK exactly 5 years preceding the application date? Check
    - Max 450 days abroad in the 5 year period preceding the application? I don't pass this one:
That's because, from July 2020 to March 2021, I stayed 260 days in Italy to be around my mother that was working as nurse in a hospital during the pandemic. Adding this absence period, means that in the 5 year period preceding the application, my total absences are 588 days.

Under the official guidelines, I see:
"Absences during the qualifying period

Where an applicant has spent more than the 450 days for section 6(1) applications, or 270 days for section 6(2) applications, outside of the UK during the qualifying period you must consider exercising discretion if they meet the other requirements.

Where the applicant has absences of between 480 and 900 days for applications under section 6(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981, or 300 and 540 days for applications under section 6(2) and otherwise meets the requirements you must only consider exercising discretion where the applicant has established their home, employment, family and finances in the UK, and one or more of the following applies:

at least 2 years residence (for applications under section 6(1)), or 1 year (for applications under section 6(2)), without substantial absences immediately prior to the beginning of the qualifying period - if the period of absence is greater than 730 days (for section 6(1)) or 450 days (for section 6(2)) the period of residence must be at least 3 or 2 years respectively

the excess absences are the result of:

postings abroad in Crown service under the UK government or in service designated under section 2(3) of the British Nationality act 1981.

accompanying a British citizen spouse or civil partner on an appointment overseas

the excess absences were an unavoidable consequence of the nature of the applicant’s career, such as a merchant seaman or employment with a multinational company based in the UK with frequent travel abroad

exceptionally compelling reasons of an occupational or compassionate nature to justify naturalisation now, such as a firm job offer where British citizenship is a statutory or mandatory requirement

the applicant was prevented from being in the UK because they had been removed from the UK, and the decision to remove them was later overturned

the applicant was incorrectly prevented from resuming permanent residence in the UK following an absence

the excess absences were because the applicant was unable to return to the UK because of global pandemic
"

If I understand correctly, for the discretion to be accepted, I would need to have "established their home, employment, family and finances in the UK" AND my reason for absences due to the pandemic are convincing to the case worker.

"estabilished their home" In this context, what does it mean? during my total time in the UK, I have been living in 9+ different addresses (by paying rent as tenant). Did I establish my home?

"Employment": I have been working during my time in the UK, so that should be ok

"family and finances in the UK": I am single, and the only member of my family living abroad, does this mean I have not established my family in the UK and therefore will be refused discretion?

"the excess absences were because the applicant was unable to return to the UK because of global pandemic": I stayed 260 days in Italy to be around my mother that was working as nurse in a hospital during the pandemic, as that was a very emotionally challenging time for her. But the wording is "was unable to return to the UK", I wouldn't know how to prove that, as I don't remember if I was physically unable to return to the UK and I don't remember the constantly changing travel advisories/bans across that time-span.

Anyone has information/advice on my situation?

The borders had reopened in July 2020 and were still open throughout until you came back, so you can't claim you have been stuck abroad. Your absences were due to your choice to travel abroad, the COVID discretion wouldn't apply to you.

In addition, review https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... t_2023.pdf pag 11 and following:

Absences normally disregarded only if:
• you meet all other requirements and you have established your home, family and a substantial part of your estate here.

900 days

Please note: if your absences are up to 730 days we would expect you to have been resident in the UK for the last 7 years.

For absences exceeding 730 days we would expect you to have been resident in the UK for the last 8 years unless the absences were a result of one of the reasons given below (I don't think those apply to you but feel free to review).

Regarding having established your home, estate, etc. it shouldn't matter that you don't have family here - you can show you worked here for however many years and you can state all your finances are here too (if eg you own a house in Italy, that wouldn't bode in your favour).

The issue I see in your case is that you have more than 450 days outside of the UK AND you were outside of the UK in 2017, so you don't have 7 years of residence to get discretion on the absences. In this scenario, your application may be refused.

Could you specify exactly how many days of absence you have? Up to 500 are normally disregarded. If it's more than 500, you'll need to wait until they go down to under 450-500 AND apply on a date that you can demonstrate you were physically in the UK 5 years prior.
All advice comes from personal research and experience and should not be regarded as professional opinion.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by contorted_svy » Sun Dec 24, 2023 6:31 pm

I realised you did post exactly how many absences you have and the maximum number of absences normally disregarded is 480, not 500 - apologies. If you applied now you would need to have 7 years of continuous residence, but you were abroad in 2017, so you don't meet that requirement.

I think to apply you'll need to wait until your absences go down to under 450-480 (under 480 normally disregarded) AND apply on a date that you can demonstrate you were physically in the UK 5 years prior.
All advice comes from personal research and experience and should not be regarded as professional opinion.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by cuffiediem » Sun Dec 24, 2023 7:13 pm

contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 6:31 pm
I realised you did post exactly how many absences you have and the maximum number of absences normally disregarded is 480, not 500 - apologies. If you applied now you would need to have 7 years of continuous residence, but you were abroad in 2017, so you don't meet that requirement.

I think to apply you'll need to wait until your absences go down to under 450-480 (under 480 normally disregarded) AND apply on a date that you can demonstrate you were physically in the UK 5 years prior.
Thanks for the response! Yes, on January 2024, at the date I considered applying, I would have spent 588 days outside of the UK in the 5 years prior.
However, I'm somewhat perplexed. The document you linked, specifically on page 11 which you referenced, seems to indicate that for periods of absence up to 730 days (which applies to me), I would need to have been a resident in the UK for the past 7 years for the discretion to be accepted.

However, the web-based "Guidance Naturalisation as a British citizen by discretion" (https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... bookmark27)

Under the section "Absences during the qualifying period", doesn't make the 7-year residence mandatory if you can satisfy other options:

"Where the applicant has absences of between 480 and 900 days for applications
under section 6(1) and otherwise meets the requirements you must only
consider exercising discretion where the applicant has established their home,
employment, family and finances in the UK, and one or more of the following applies:"


And then it lists some options, 3 of which are:
- at least 2 years residence (for applications under section 6(1)), or 1 year (for applications under section 6(2)), without substantial absences immediately prior to the beginning of the qualifying period - if the period of absence is greater than 730 days (for section 6(1)) or 450 days (for section 6(2)) the period of residence must be at least 3 or 2 years respectively
- exceptionally compelling reasons of an occupational or compassionate nature to justify naturalisation now, such as a firm job offer where British citizenship is a statutory or mandatory requirement
- the excess absences were because the applicant was unable to return to the UK because of global pandemic


Which one is the one being used, the PDF you sent me (from the Home Office) or the web-page (Also from the Home office)?
Because in the first (Guide AN Naturalisation booklet – The requirements and the process), I'd have no chance in applying due to not having a 7 year residency

The second (Guidance Naturalisation as a British citizen by discretion), says that for my absence days, discretion could still apply if any of those 3 options (cited above) applies, and one of those 3 options is the 7 years residency you mentioned, the others are the compassionate reason and the inability to return due to pandemic

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by Ixeon659 » Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:05 pm

If I was you, I would just wait a few years and then would apply. You already have Settled status and you hold EU citizenship, so I am not sure why you want to get British citizenship as soon as possible when you have too many absences just now.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by contorted_svy » Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm

The second (Guidance Naturalisation as a British citizen by discretion), says that for my absence days, discretion could still apply if any of those 3 options (cited above) applies, and one of those 3 options is the 7 years residency you mentioned, the others are the compassionate reason and the inability to return due to pandemic
As I explained above, you could have come back at any point, therefore it is not justifiable under the pandemic. What you described in your post wouldn't qualify as compassionate reason, unless you have extensive documentation from your mum's GP that she needed someone, and even then that someone didn't specifically have to be you. Both documents are official guidance - there is some leeway in there built in for extremely compassionate cases but as I said I don't think either of those options, pandemic or compassionate reasons, would apply to you, and you would therefore need the 7 years of residence. Considering you have ILR (so right to work, rent, etc) and this is an expensive application, I would wait until (I guess) 2026 when your days abroad have gone down and you can prove on the day 5 year prior to when you apply to be confident you will be accepted.
All advice comes from personal research and experience and should not be regarded as professional opinion.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by cuffiediem » Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:56 pm

contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
The second (Guidance Naturalisation as a British citizen by discretion), says that for my absence days, discretion could still apply if any of those 3 options (cited above) applies, and one of those 3 options is the 7 years residency you mentioned, the others are the compassionate reason and the inability to return due to pandemic
As I explained above, you could have come back at any point, therefore it is not justifiable under the pandemic. What you described in your post wouldn't qualify as compassionate reason, unless you have extensive documentation from your mum's GP that she needed someone, and even then that someone didn't specifically have to be you. Both documents are official guidance - there is some leeway in there built in for extremely compassionate cases but as I said I don't think either of those options, pandemic or compassionate reasons, would apply to you, and you would therefore need the 7 years of residence. Considering you have ILR (so right to work, rent, etc) and this is an expensive application, I would wait until (I guess) 2026 when your days abroad have gone down and you can prove on the day 5 year prior to when you apply to be confident you will be accepted.
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
Both documents are official guidance
By leaving aside my specific circumstances, is it just me, or do the two documents cited above (the one you linked, and the one I linked, both being from Home Office) seem to slightly contradict each other? While you referred to both as official guidance, you didn't comment their differing statements. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on this.
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
and this is an expensive application, I would wait until (I guess) 2026 when your days abroad have gone down and you can prove on the day 5 year prior to when you apply to be confident you will be accepted.
I could apply in 2026, but I don't know if my lifestyle will make me go for work to another country before then, this is the reason I was considering applying now (in January 2024).
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
What you described in your post wouldn't qualify as compassionate reason, unless you have extensive documentation from your mum's GP that she needed someone, and even then that someone didn't specifically have to be you.
Is this your own understanding, or do you have information or additional sources indicating that the case worker would usually want documentation from your mum's GP that she needed someone in order to consider it acceptable "compassionate reasons"?
What I can prove is that that my mum was working as a nurse in the hospital in Italy, in the worst period of the pandemic, while vaccines were not available yet, and being 62 years old she was at high risk, she's divorced, so she was distressed and realistically I was the only one that could offer her support of some sort by being around.
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
you could have come back at any point, therefore it is not justifiable under the pandemic.
Is the evaluation based just on the capability of physical travel? During the pandemic, governments, including those of the UK and Italy, recommended avoiding non-essential travel. Therefore, traveling to the UK in the period from July 2020 to March 2021 would have been contrary to this advice, heightening the risk of infection or transmitting the virus to others.

I apologize for the nuisance, but given the nature of online information, I need to be certain of the accuracy before deciding against applying for naturalization.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by contorted_svy » Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:53 am

cuffiediem wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:56 pm
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
The second (Guidance Naturalisation as a British citizen by discretion), says that for my absence days, discretion could still apply if any of those 3 options (cited above) applies, and one of those 3 options is the 7 years residency you mentioned, the others are the compassionate reason and the inability to return due to pandemic
As I explained above, you could have come back at any point, therefore it is not justifiable under the pandemic. What you described in your post wouldn't qualify as compassionate reason, unless you have extensive documentation from your mum's GP that she needed someone, and even then that someone didn't specifically have to be you. Both documents are official guidance - there is some leeway in there built in for extremely compassionate cases but as I said I don't think either of those options, pandemic or compassionate reasons, would apply to you, and you would therefore need the 7 years of residence. Considering you have ILR (so right to work, rent, etc) and this is an expensive application, I would wait until (I guess) 2026 when your days abroad have gone down and you can prove on the day 5 year prior to when you apply to be confident you will be accepted.
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
Both documents are official guidance
By leaving aside my specific circumstances, is it just me, or do the two documents cited above (the one you linked, and the one I linked, both being from Home Office) seem to slightly contradict each other? While you referred to both as official guidance, you didn't comment their differing statements. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on this.
Yes, I agreed above they are slightly different. I did comment that some leeway is allowed for cases of extremely compassionate nature. I can't comment any further because I can only refer to the guidance, and that detail is not one we see coming up often. See also below.
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
and this is an expensive application, I would wait until (I guess) 2026 when your days abroad have gone down and you can prove on the day 5 year prior to when you apply to be confident you will be accepted.
I could apply in 2026, but I don't know if my lifestyle will make me go for work to another country before then, this is the reason I was considering applying now (in January 2024).


If that is the case, I am sorry but it seems you don't respect the requirement of future intentions to live in the UK. Naturalisation is an application with a number of requirements and it's elective, not compulsory, if you don't intend to make the UK your future home and you have more than the allowed number of absences, then why should the Home Office let you become a citizen? I am not agreeing with their policies or rules, but it is a reality that they set them and, as foreigners, we either comply with them or we don't. Citizenship is not necessary to live here.
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
What you described in your post wouldn't qualify as compassionate reason, unless you have extensive documentation from your mum's GP that she needed someone, and even then that someone didn't specifically have to be you.
Is this your own understanding, or do you have information or additional sources indicating that the case worker would usually want documentation from your mum's GP that she needed someone in order to consider it acceptable "compassionate reasons"?
What I can prove is that that my mum was working as a nurse in the hospital in Italy, in the worst period of the pandemic, while vaccines were not available yet, and being 62 years old she was at high risk, she's divorced, so she was distressed and realistically I was the only one that could offer her support of some sort by being around.
This is my own understanding for sure, you can speak to an immigration solicitor if you would like and see if your circumstances apply.
The guidance states
- exceptionally compelling reasons of an occupational or compassionate nature to justify naturalisation now, such as a firm job offer where British citizenship is a statutory or mandatory requirement

Why would your circumstances (which, as difficult as they sound, don't have to convince me but the HO, which doesn't have particular issues splitting families for example) justify naturalisation NOW? If you don't have a compelling reason that the Home Office will accept (eg a job offer in defence, which requires British Citizenship), your plea won't be accepted.
contorted_svy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:37 pm
you could have come back at any point, therefore it is not justifiable under the pandemic.
Is the evaluation based just on the capability of physical travel? During the pandemic, governments, including those of the UK and Italy, recommended avoiding non-essential travel. Therefore, traveling to the UK in the period from July 2020 to March 2021 would have been contrary to this advice, heightening the risk of infection or transmitting the virus to others.

I apologize for the nuisance, but given the nature of online information, I need to be certain of the accuracy before deciding against applying for naturalization.

I am afraid it is. You were physically able to travel and chose to go when the pandemic had already started (you weren't stranded somewhere) and you didn't come back to the UK even though it was possible.
To check that my interpretation is correct you can always ask an immigration solicitor.
All advice comes from personal research and experience and should not be regarded as professional opinion.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by cuffiediem » Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:59 am

contorted_svy wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:53 am
If that is the case, I am sorry but it seems you don't respect the requirement of future intentions to live in the UK. Naturalisation is an application with a number of requirements and it's elective, not compulsory, if you don't intend to make the UK your future home and you have more than the allowed number of absences, then why should the Home Office let you become a citizen? I am not agreeing with their policies or rules, but it is a reality that they set them and, as foreigners, we either comply with them or we don't. Citizenship is not necessary to live here.
I'm uncertain about the nature of this claim and the reason behind having to explain my desire to settle in the UK.
Is this a matter of ethics or legality?

On the moral side: The UK is already my home, I moved here when I was 19 years old in 2009, worked my mule off 2 jobs while attending University and graduated, spent here most of my adult life (except a 3-year gap in 2015-2018 and the 8-month gap in 2019 during covid) and I contribute more taxes to the UK government than the average British citizen due to my occupation. The UK is part of my identity having spent here almost half of my latter life.

On the legal side: I don't have any current plans to relocate overseas. I wrote, "I could apply in 2026, but I don't know if my lifestyle will lead me to work in another country before then, hence my consideration to apply now (in January 2024)," doesn't suggest a lack of commitment to making the UK my home. It's hard to imagine anyone so rigid that they would outright dismiss the possibility of a temporary overseas work opportunity, should it arise. This doesn't mean they don't plan to settle in the UK.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by contorted_svy » Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:16 pm

cuffiediem wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2023 11:59 am
contorted_svy wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:53 am
If that is the case, I am sorry but it seems you don't respect the requirement of future intentions to live in the UK. Naturalisation is an application with a number of requirements and it's elective, not compulsory, if you don't intend to make the UK your future home and you have more than the allowed number of absences, then why should the Home Office let you become a citizen? I am not agreeing with their policies or rules, but it is a reality that they set them and, as foreigners, we either comply with them or we don't. Citizenship is not necessary to live here.
I'm uncertain about the nature of this claim and the reason behind having to explain my desire to settle in the UK.
Is this a matter of ethics or legality?

On the moral side: The UK is already my home, I moved here when I was 19 years old in 2009, worked my mule off 2 jobs while attending University and graduated, spent here most of my adult life (except a 3-year gap in 2015-2018 and the 8-month gap in 2019 during covid) and I contribute more taxes to the UK government than the average British citizen due to my occupation. The UK is part of my identity having spent here almost half of my latter life.

On the legal side: I don't have any current plans to relocate overseas. I wrote, "I could apply in 2026, but I don't know if my lifestyle will lead me to work in another country before then, hence my consideration to apply now (in January 2024)," doesn't suggest a lack of commitment to making the UK my home. It's hard to imagine anyone so rigid that they would outright dismiss the possibility of a temporary overseas work opportunity, should it arise. This doesn't mean they don't plan to settle in the UK.

The problem isn't with ethics or morality or how many taxes you have paid. The HO has requirements and one of them is absences. As I have explained I don't believe that your case would qualify for discretion under the pandemic or compassionate reasons, therefore you would need to wait until (I guess, as I don't know your pattern of absences) 2026. If you don't think you can commit to staying in the UK until then and want your options open, that means it will be much harder for you to respect the absences requirement and therefore be eligible for citizenship. It is your choice after all. Settling in the UK means that this is the country you will choose to be in for the rest of your life, otherwise you can perfectly choose to keep your ILR, with the requirements and rights that entails, and live elsewhere if you wish.
All advice comes from personal research and experience and should not be regarded as professional opinion.

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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by cuffiediem » Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:17 pm

contorted_svy wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2023 1:16 pm
As I have explained I don't believe that your case would qualify for discretion under the pandemic or compassionate reasons
Thanks for sharing your view. Based on what I read from Immigration solicitors, I don't think the discretion for the pandemic-related absences is as black-and-white as you describe it, but rather, there are gray areas. I had a look at what expert immigration solicitors say about this:

Example 1:
"Current policy enables the Home Office to exercise discretion in respect of excess absences, which were as a result of an applicant being “unable to return to the UK because of the global pandemic”. In our practical experience to date, the Home Office has been broadly willing to exercise discretion on such basis, and we have made numerous successful applications.
This will be welcome news to many applicants who were caught outside of the UK in 2020 and 2021 due to COVID-19 travel restrictions, lockdowns and infection, and are now considering applying for British citizenship."


Source removed.

Example 2:
"Lots of people are also dealing with covid-related absences. The exact phrasing in the Home Office guidance requires that “the applicant was unable to return to the UK because of global pandemic”. Because of the word “unable”, our favourite evidence is proof of flight cancellations, as this means you were physically unable to return to the UK even if you were at the airport with your suitcase.

That said, we know there’s plenty of grey areas here. What if the flights were running but you were afraid to return? What if you live alone in the UK and preferred to stay with family abroad? What if your UK employer advised you to stay overseas and work-from-home there?

We don’t have the answers to these questions, but we would hope for some leniency from the Home Office.

What we do know is that all of this should be addressed in the cover letter, whether we write it for you or you DIY."

Source removed.

In my specific case, I have proof of 2 cancelled flights in October 2020. I personally suspect this is a gray-area even for the case worker, and discretion would depend on the case worker looking at the application, and how the application is phrased.

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contorted_svy
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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by contorted_svy » Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:55 pm

Please note that you can't post links to solicitors' websites as per forum's rules, the mods will remove them.
What you see there is a "hope" for leniency - but as I pointed out earlier, we haven't had that many cases here and so we can't definitely say what is ultimately accepted by a case worker and what isn't. I said a number of times already that you can ask a solicitor for their opinion if you think my interpretation is not in line with the guidance (see what they say too though, that their favourite evidence is cancelled flights - you have tow cancelled flights form 2020, but you didn't return until well into 2021 so that is unlikely to justify your whole absence) - I shared my view on how to play it safe, as you asked the question "would my case be eligible for discretion" and I personally wouldn't be confident in investing all that money in the application if this was my situation. You are welcome to do as you see fit; if you do apply based on the current circumstances, please report back as this might inform future applicants with similar queries.
All advice comes from personal research and experience and should not be regarded as professional opinion.

cuffiediem
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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by cuffiediem » Mon Dec 25, 2023 4:15 pm

I haven't decided yet if I will apply, I will decide after searching for an expert solicitor that has dealt with similar cases (covid absences discretion during qualifying period) and see what they say, meanwhile, thanks for offering your insight, and happy Christmas!

Also: If anyone used the pandemic discretion clause in their Naturalisation application, I'd be happy to read your feedback/report !

meself2
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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by meself2 » Mon Dec 25, 2023 5:14 pm

Sources were indeed removed - we just cannot have links to solicitors/immigration advisors on the forum, as we wish to stay away from promoting these kinds of services.

As contorted_svy said, we cannot stop you from applying - you're in charge of your own life and money, after all.
There's at least one case on the board where discretion wasn't used ( post2016888.html#p2016888 ) and OP was refused. On the other hand, it's entirely possible people who applied on the basis of covid related absences just got their certificate and never reported back.
The decision lies solely with you.
Not a qualified immigration adviser. Use links and references given to gain confirmation and/or extra information.

Lougermain
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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by Lougermain » Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:03 pm

Did you decide to send your application or to wait in the end?

pedrohbg
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Re: Spent more than 450 days in 5 years due to pandemic, will there be discretion?

Post by pedrohbg » Tue Mar 12, 2024 9:25 am

Please let us know if you applied. I'm in a similar situation

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