Naturalisation and EUFAM

[wong0511]

Hi all,

Hope yous are having a good Christmas!!

Just having some questions regarding to naturalisation and my stamp actually. Basically me and my EU partner got married in sept 2019, but we have some different life plans so she’s going to go back to France next year, which means we won’t be living together anymore.

The question is I’ve been living here since 2014, and I should be eligible to apply for a citizenship. I’m on stamp 4EUFAM at the moment, and just received my full length IRP card till 2025. I’m just not too sure how is it going to work, if I’ll be able to apply for a citizenship when she’s away? Or do we need to file for divorce and stuffs and apply for retention to stay as well?

Any help would be very appreciated.

[meself2]

First of all, you need to notify ISD whenever you even stop living together, so be prepared.

But your residence is not affected as you got a permanent residence approved. See post1992682.html#p1992682 .

Apply for citizenship as normal.

[wong0511]

First of all, you need to notify ISD whenever you even stop living together, so be prepared.

But your residence is not affected as you got a permanent residence approved. See post1992682.html#p1992682 .

Apply for citizenship as normal.

Hi there,

That’s good to know thanks for your prompt reply. But from the thread it looks like it’s for EU3 permanent residency? I’m only on stamp4EUFAM now, would it be the same?

And another question is Im counting the temporary stamp4 that was granted to me for naturalisation while we were waiting for the result, so I was on temporary stamp4 from September 2019 till March 2021, would that be counted in for the time for naturalisation as well you reckons?

Thanks so much for your reply, very appreciate it!

[meself2]

Okay, scratch that - my advice is incorrect. My apologies.

As you were there from 2019, I incorrectly assumed you got a permanent residence card -> can stay in Ireland in your own right (which is what EU3 refers to). But since you were on temporary stamp till 2021, not the case.
As you're not yet at the permanent residence stage, you first have to apply for EUTR5 once your relationship is broken down and get permission to stay in the country in your own right.

You should be able to use temporary stamps for naturalization, but since your status isn't exactly stable, you might be better off waiting on EUTR5 decision.

[wong0511]

Okay, scratch that - my advice is incorrect. My apologies.

As you were there from 2019, I incorrectly assumed you got a permanent residence card -> can stay in Ireland in your own right (which is what EU3 refers to). But since you were on temporary stamp till 2021, not the case.
As you're not yet at the permanent residence stage, you first have to apply for EUTR5 once your relationship is broken down and get permission to stay in the country in your own right.

You should be able to use temporary stamps for naturalization, but since your status isn't exactly stable, you might be better off waiting on EUTR5 decision.

Hm that’s what I assuming as well. Does it mean we have to file for a divorce in that case? I saw some posts about in other to have the retention approved, would be better if the EU spouse staying in Ireland but I’m pretty sure she’s very keen on leaving the state next year so that’s why we’re trying to figure out what’s the best way to do, just mainly we have to sort out a way that I don’t have to completely rely on her for my status anymore.

[meself2]

Does it mean we have to file for a divorce in that case?

Most likely.
Going by the leaflet they provide (feel free to read it - https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... -EUTR5.pdf ), one of the cases for applying to retain a residence card is "Departure of the EEA national from the State", but it seems to be only in case of any children left that are studying here, which I assume you do not have. The obvious question by immigration would be "you followed your partner to Ireland, why don't you follo them elsewhere?".

Also, from FAQ:

Please note that you must submit a divorce certificate if you wish to apply to retain a residence card on the basis of the dissolution of your marriage. You cannot apply to retain a residence card if divorce proceedings have not been finalised.

[Angel99]

Hi,

Meself2 is right. Divorce/Dissolution/Annulment of marriage is the main key for retention. Other options are;

- Your EEA national family member has died.
-Your EEA national family member has departed the State and you
have custody of the children of the EEA national who are in education in the State.

Now you can also retain your rights if there is domestic violence or it will be a serious hardship to you(this has to be proven).


Your only option is either you file for divorce as soon as possible while the EU citizen is still in the state and request for retention, even if it delays, they will also delay the retention application and you will still use your EUFAM card or you will be issued a temporary stamp. *All is reckonable for naturalisation*. So far has you have completed the 3 years marriage period it will be impossible for them to deport you.

[wong0511]

Hi all,

Many thanks for your insight reply, very appreciate it. My partner most likely is going to go back to France in April or May, so think I’m just worrying that we won’t have enough time to do everything since the process of divorce is quite long in here.

I’ll chat to my solicitor and work out the best way there, but thanks all again for your help!

[wong0511]

Hi all,

Hope you all are well.

Just another question here and we talked to our solicitor and there’s just some small things here and there we need to figure it out. So for applying a retention to stay with EUTR5, what I understand correctly is my EU spouse have to be in the state and exercising their rights when the whole divorce is happening, wondering if we divorce in France is it going to count?

We got married here in Ireland but the marriage is registered in France, We’re just not too sure as the divorce procedure is going to take so long in Ireland and my EU spouse would stay for a bit longer if the divorce in France does count and could be faster, but she wouldn’t want to stay this long if we have to go through divorce in Ireland if that make sense.

Hope to hear some answers here, many thanks!

[Angel99]

Hi all,

Hope you all are well.

Just another question here and we talked to our solicitor and there’s just some small things here and there we need to figure it out. So for applying a retention to stay with EUTR5, what I understand correctly is my EU spouse have to be in the state and exercising their rights when the whole divorce is happening, wondering if we divorce in France is it going to count?

We got married here in Ireland but the marriage is registered in France, We’re just not too sure as the divorce procedure is going to take so long in Ireland and my EU spouse would stay for a bit longer if the divorce in France does count and could be faster, but she wouldn’t want to stay this long if we have to go through divorce in Ireland if that make sense.

Hope to hear some answers here, many thanks!

*Be married for 3 years and 1 year residence in Ireland
*Apply for divorce in Ireland (You can divorce in France but you have to make sure you and your spouse are still residents in Ireland.
* The EU spouse should be exercising her treaty rights before and during the time applying for divorce.
***Be employed
*If the EU spouse leaves the state before divorce is finalised, notify the authorities and apply for retention (They will either let you maintain your current status or give you a temporary stamp until your divorce is finalised).

[wong0511]

Hi all,

Hope you all are well.

Just another question here and we talked to our solicitor and there’s just some small things here and there we need to figure it out. So for applying a retention to stay with EUTR5, what I understand correctly is my EU spouse have to be in the state and exercising their rights when the whole divorce is happening, wondering if we divorce in France is it going to count?

We got married here in Ireland but the marriage is registered in France, We’re just not too sure as the divorce procedure is going to take so long in Ireland and my EU spouse would stay for a bit longer if the divorce in France does count and could be faster, but she wouldn’t want to stay this long if we have to go through divorce in Ireland if that make sense.

Hope to hear some answers here, many thanks!

*Be married for 3 years and 1 year residence in Ireland
*Apply for divorce in Ireland (You can divorce in France but you have to make sure you and your spouse are still residents in Ireland.
* The EU spouse should be exercising her treaty rights before and during the time applying for divorce.
***Be employed
*If the EU spouse leaves the state before divorce is finalised, notify the authorities and apply for retention (They will either let you maintain your current status or give you a temporary stamp until your divorce is finalised).

Hi there,

Thanks for your answer! Just wondering, everything is still quite new for us and we only decided to start separating about a month ago and we’re still living together, in order to divorce here does it mean we have to separate for 2 years first?

I heard back from my solicitor saying that the department now don’t just give out temporary stamp 1 anymore if the EU spouse leave the state and instead it’ll be the non EU resident have to represent yourself for why you should be remain in the state, so that’s why we’re trying to figure out what’s the best way as my EU spouse wanted to be back to France in April.

We’ve reached every other requirement, my EU spouse is employed, I’m employed and we’ve been living here for 5 years now, just this divorce part is the only thing we’ve heard different opinion about this.

Many thanks again for all your help!

[Angel99]

Hi all,

Hope you all are well.

Just another question here and we talked to our solicitor and there’s just some small things here and there we need to figure it out. So for applying a retention to stay with EUTR5, what I understand correctly is my EU spouse have to be in the state and exercising their rights when the whole divorce is happening, wondering if we divorce in France is it going to count?

We got married here in Ireland but the marriage is registered in France, We’re just not too sure as the divorce procedure is going to take so long in Ireland and my EU spouse would stay for a bit longer if the divorce in France does count and could be faster, but she wouldn’t want to stay this long if we have to go through divorce in Ireland if that make sense.

Hope to hear some answers here, many thanks!

*Be married for 3 years and 1 year residence in Ireland
*Apply for divorce in Ireland (You can divorce in France but you have to make sure you and your spouse are still residents in Ireland.
* The EU spouse should be exercising her treaty rights before and during the time applying for divorce.
***Be employed
*If the EU spouse leaves the state before divorce is finalised, notify the authorities and apply for retention (They will either let you maintain your current status or give you a temporary stamp until your divorce is finalised).

Hi there,

Thanks for your answer! Just wondering, everything is still quite new for us and we only decided to start separating about a month ago and we’re still living together, in order to divorce here does it mean we have to separate for 2 years first?

I heard back from my solicitor saying that the department now don’t just give out temporary stamp 1 anymore if the EU spouse leave the state and instead it’ll be the non EU resident have to represent yourself for why you should be remain in the state, so that’s why we’re trying to figure out what’s the best way as my EU spouse wanted to be back to France in April.

We’ve reached every other requirement, my EU spouse is employed, I’m employed and we’ve been living here for 5 years now, just this divorce part is the only thing we’ve heard different opinion about this.

Many thanks again for all your help!

**You and your spouse must live apart from one another for at least 2 out of the previous 3 years before you can apply for divorce

You will not be given stamp 1. You will receive temporary stamp 4.

*You need to be in employment. Even if the EU spouse leaves the state so far as you have filed for divorce your case will be pending until the divorce is finalised (Some cases they won't cancel your stamp4EU)

. Since you don't have custody of any child, make sure you are still employed.


Option 2

Since you and your spouse live together and you have lived in the state for 5 years, why don't you come into agreement and apply for permanent residence. With *permanent residence you will be on your own rights and can apply for citizenship the following year with no set backs.*

[wong0511]

[quote=wong0511 post_id=2146766 time=<a href="tel:1706215534">1706215534</a> user_id=283631]
[quote=Angel99 post_id=2146697 time=<a href="tel:1706192823">1706192823</a> user_id=278550]
[quote=wong0511 post_id=2146559 time=<a href="tel:1706127685">1706127685</a> user_id=283631]
Hi all,

Hope you all are well.

Just another question here and we talked to our solicitor and there’s just some small things here and there we need to figure it out. So for applying a retention to stay with EUTR5, what I understand correctly is my EU spouse have to be in the state and exercising their rights when the whole divorce is happening, wondering if we divorce in France is it going to count?

We got married here in Ireland but the marriage is registered in France, We’re just not too sure as the divorce procedure is going to take so long in Ireland and my EU spouse would stay for a bit longer if the divorce in France does count and could be faster, but she wouldn’t want to stay this long if we have to go through divorce in Ireland if that make sense.

Hope to hear some answers here, many thanks!

*Be married for 3 years and 1 year residence in Ireland
*Apply for divorce in Ireland (You can divorce in France but you have to make sure you and your spouse are still residents in Ireland.
* The EU spouse should be exercising her treaty rights before and during the time applying for divorce.
***Be employed
*If the EU spouse leaves the state before divorce is finalised, notify the authorities and apply for retention (They will either let you maintain your current status or give you a temporary stamp until your divorce is finalised).
[/quote]

Hi there,

Thanks for your answer! Just wondering, everything is still quite new for us and we only decided to start separating about a month ago and we’re still living together, in order to divorce here does it mean we have to separate for 2 years first?

I heard back from my solicitor saying that the department now don’t just give out temporary stamp 1 anymore if the EU spouse leave the state and instead it’ll be the non EU resident have to represent yourself for why you should be remain in the state, so that’s why we’re trying to figure out what’s the best way as my EU spouse wanted to be back to France in April.

We’ve reached every other requirement, my EU spouse is employed, I’m employed and we’ve been living here for 5 years now, just this divorce part is the only thing we’ve heard different opinion about this.

Many thanks again for all your help!
[/quote]

**You and your spouse must live apart from one another for at least 2 out of the previous 3 years before you can apply for divorce

You will not be given stamp 1. You will receive temporary stamp 4.

*You need to be in employment. Even if the EU spouse leaves the state so far as you have filed for divorce your case will be pending until the divorce is finalised (Some cases they won't cancel your stamp4EU)

. Since you don't have custody of any child, make sure you are still employed.


Option 2

Since you and your spouse live together and you have lived in the state for 5 years, why don't you come into agreement and apply for permanent residence. With *permanent residence you will be on your own rights and can apply for citizenship the following year with no set backs.*
[/quote]

Hi,

Many thanks for your answer. Option 2 is not applying to me cause I only have about 3 years of stamp4EUFAM used within the 5 years, the first two year we were living here I was either on stamp1G or temporary stamp4 unfortunately.

Just one last question here, so even if we apply for separation, and while we’re still in the process of separation she leaves the state already will I still be able to apply to stay then? As I mentioned most likely she will leave the state by this year so would be good to know what’s the process.

Thank you so much for your help really appreciate it.

[Angel99]

Your temporary stamp 4 is reckonable which means you can count it to your citizenship.

If she will leave the state this year, best you and her sign a Deed of Separation while living together in the state reason why living together; housing and use that to apply for retention while she is still in the state and exercising her rights.