Visitor visa - 10 years (6 months stay per visit)

[dheeraj1025]

My mom from india got 10 years visitor visa she visited us in feb 20th 2023 and stayed for 5 months, left to USA on july 5th 2023.

Just returned to the UK this morning 26th Dec 2023 was stopped by the immigration and said you can only stay in UK for 6 months on a period of a year, you used 5 months already you only have month to stay.

My understanding is you can stay for 6 months on every visit, am I wrong?

Can she go back to india on end of jan and come back in end of feb 2024 to get another six months correct?

Any help is appreciated.

[Casa]

My mom from india got 10 years visitor visa she visited us in feb 20th 2023 and stayed for 5 months, left to USA on july 5th 2023.

Just returned to the UK this morning 26th Dec 2023 was stopped by the immigration and said you can only stay in UK for 6 months on a period of a year, you used 5 months already you only have month to stay.

My understanding is you can stay for 6 months on every visit, am I wrong?

Can she go back to india on end of jan and come back in end of feb 2024 to get another six months correct?

Any help is appreciated.

Visitors shouldn't be spending more time in the UK than they are spending in their country of residence, during a 12 months rolling period. i.e not a calendar year.

If your mother visits this time for the full 6 months, she will have exceeded that. This is a red flag for Border Entry Officers, as it suggests an attempt to reside in the UK, rather than entering as a genuine visitor.

[dheeraj1025]

Ok where is this in the official document if you have it handy.

Can my mother go to india for a month and come back in feb as that will start a fresh rolling year where she can stay for 6 months again? We need her to get help with the kid. Same withy brother in USA, so she is planning to stay 6 months in UK and six months in USA.

[secret.simon]

She can stay a maximum of six months per visit.

However, what she can't/shouldn't do is "live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home;" (Paragraph 4.2 (b) of Appendix V of the Immigration Rules).

Simply put, she should be spending more time in her country of habitual residence than in the UK at the very least. That will demonstrate that she has stronger ties to that country than to the UK. She should also not come to the UK too regularly nor should she attempt to stay in the UK for a full six months or a long period of time, because that will indicate that she is attempting to reside in the UK in the guise of a visit visa.

The idea of a 10 year visit visa is that the person does not need to keep applying for a visit visa each time that they travel to the UK. Essentially, for the duration of the 10 years, they are roughly equivalent to a non-visa-national. But both non-visa-nationals and people on long-term visit visas, like all people on visit visas, need to meet the genuine visitor requirement linked to above.

The fact that your mother returned to the UK from the US and not her country of habitual residence will now likely be on immigration records and will indicate that she does not have strong ties to that country. Her future visits will almost certainly trigger extended scrutiny.

And keep in mind that a visit visa can be cancelled at the airport on the spot and the person returned to their country of habitual residence if the Immigration Officer feels that they are abusing the visit visa, which is explicitly not for long term residence.

Finally, keep in mind that on a visit visa, if your mother needs NHS treatment, she will be charged at 150% cost. And for non-life-threatening medical treatment, they will take payment before proceeding to treatment. You will need either deep pockets or a really good insurance plan.

[meself2]

It's not a set in stone rule either.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... -v-visitor

V 4.2. The applicant must satisfy the decision maker that they are a genuine visitor, which means the applicant:
[...]
(b) will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home; and

As she comes to UK for 5 months, leaves for 5 months and wants to return again for another month, she spends almost half of a year in the UK; that might as well considered frequent/successivs visits and ring alarm bells.

Also point of consideration (other mods might correct me); quoting Casa, "Visitors shouldn't be spending more time in the UK than they are spending in their country of residence", but your mother left for the States, not back to India - question arises about her ties to India, if she doesn't even go there.

UPD: beaten by secret.simon, thank you!

[meself2]

she is planning to stay 6 months in UK and six months in USA.

So she doesn't stay in India, where she applied from and showed ties to? Look at this from the point of view of HO, how can immigration officers be sure she leaves the country at the end of her visit?

We need her to get help with the kid.

And, as UKVI sees that, she takes the job from a British nanny by helping you with the kid. On a visit visa.

You need to thread very carefully here.

[secret.simon]

Ok where is this in the official document if you have it handy.

There is no document that states a numerical number on the number of days that she can be present in the UK. The rule is that she should not "live in the UK in guise of frequent and successive visits". Her strong ties to her country of residence (essentially a mini visa appraisal) would also be assessed every time she enters the UK. And the fact that she is not going to her country of habitual residence, but ping-ponging between the US and UK can lead to either the visit visa being cancelled or not being renewed.

We need her to get help with the kid.

That is a really bad idea. Keep in mind that work is explicitly forbidden for visit visas. And childcare, even for one's own grandchild, is work. If she mentions that to the Immigration Officer, that may very well lead to a cancellation of the visit visa on the spot.

Your mother is breaking multiple expectations of a visitor by
(a) having multiple long visits,
(b) not returning to her home country, but spending more time in a third country and away from the country of habitual residence that she claimed to have strong ties to, and,
(c) working on a visit visa.

Even if not cancelled, the visit visa is unlikely to be renewed.

[Casa]

Ok where is this in the official document if you have it handy.

Can my mother go to india for a month and come back in feb as that will start a fresh rolling year where she can stay for 6 months again? We need her to get help with the kid. Same withy brother in USA, so she is planning to stay 6 months in UK and six months in USA.

Home Office guidance for Case Workers:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... bookmark29

Note:
- the number of visits made over the past 12 months, including the length of stay on each occasion, the time elapsed since the last visit, and if this amounts to the individual spending more time in the UK than in their home country

- At the border, you must use code 3 if the applicant meets all the Visitor rules, but some aspects remain of concern. You should consider granting under code 3 for the duration required for the stated purpose of visit, rather than granting permission for 6 months.

Also, please see the following restrictions regarding child-minding of a family member:

- Where a family member is coming to look after a child in the UK, this is permitted provided it is for a short visit and does not amount to the relative being employed as a child-minder. You must be satisfied that the visit is of a short duration, the relative is a genuine visitor and will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits.

[secret.simon]

Thank you for this document above, @Casa. I wasn't aware of it or how precise and detailed it is in calculating the visit visa requirements.

I am inclined to make this thread a sticky. Thoughts invited on this point.

[Casa]

@secret.simon I think it's a useful source for understanding what the Case Workers are required to consider before approving or refusing a visitor visa application.

[dheeraj1025]

I mean to say she is not totally taking care of baby, she is there as a grandmother looking after and spending quality time with her granddaughter.

So, the question still remains - can she go back for a month to india until new rolling year starts and she comes back foe six months?

I asked the immigration officer the same question - he said yes. But double checking here.

[secret.simon]

Again, it is not a numerical limit, like the EU's 90/180 days.

Is she residing in the UK in guise of a visit visa, by making frequent and successive visits? And are her ties to her country of habitual residence weak?

These are the questions you should be asking and answering yourself.

What she should not be doing is spending six months of every year in the UK, because that is blatantly residing in the UK for extended periods of time.

[Casa]

Was your mother's passport stamped with a code 3 by the Border Officer on this most recent entry?

[dheeraj1025]

Just a normal stamp, nothing abnormal. Look same as other stamps in the passport. I am guessing that no code 3 then?

Between thanks everyone here especially @casa thanks guys, you are true heros.

[dheeraj1025]

Again, it is not a numerical limit, like the EU's 90/180 days.

Is she residing in the UK in guise of a visit visa, by making frequent and successive visits? And are her ties to her country of habitual residence weak?

These are the questions you should be asking and answering yourself.

What she should not be doing is spending six months of every year in the UK, because that is blatantly residing in the UK for extended periods of time.

She is not residing in UK nor have any interest to reside in the UK. She just wants to spend as much time as possible with her granddaughter. If you are legally allowed for 6 months why cannot she utilise that time. I am sad who makes these rules separating families. She is bringing money to the UK not using any UK funds she is helping economy, isn't?

[vinny]

For reference, there were at least two previous caselaws regarding these issues prior to the removal of right of appeals for family visitors. They gave some interesting analysis at the time. I think they led to the changes in the Guidance.

Genuine visitor: relevant and irrelevant considerations

Sawmynaden (Family visitors - considerations) Mauritius [2012] UKUT 161 (IAC) (16 April 2012)

Oppong (visitor:length of stay) Ghana [2011] UKUT 431 (IAC) (11 November 2011) concerning Frequency and duration of visits & Frequent or successive visits: how to assess if an applicant is making the UK their main home or place of work or study

[secret.simon]

In both the cases you have linked above, @vinny, it is mentioned that the visitor returned to their country of habitual residence for the minimum amount of time to requalify for visiting again. Would the same logic apply if the visitor is not returning to their country of habitual residence but ping-ponging between two countries as a visitor? And can the lack of actually residing in her country of habitual residence impact any visit visa renewal?

[dheeraj1025]

Was your mother's passport stamped with a code 3 by the Border Officer on this most recent entry?

Just a normal stamp, nothing abnormal. Look same as other stamps in the passport. I am guessing that no code 3 then?

[dheeraj1025]

For reference, there were at least two previous caselaws regarding these issues prior to the removal of right of appeals for family visitors. They gave some interesting analysis at the time. I think they led to the changes in the Guidance.

Genuine visitor: relevant and irrelevant considerations

Sawmynaden (Family visitors - considerations) Mauritius [2012] UKUT 161 (IAC) (16 April 2012)

Oppong (visitor:length of stay) Ghana [2011] UKUT 431 (IAC) (11 November 2011) concerning Frequency and duration of visits & Frequent or successive visits: how to assess if an applicant is making the UK their main home or place of work or study

Is this mean she can go to india for a 1month and once new rolling year start she can stay another 6 months?

[secret.simon]

Is this mean she can go to india for a 1month and once new rolling year start she can stay another 6 months?

She can certainly give it a try. Her situation is certainly unusual in that she has spent much less time in her country of habitual residence than in the countries she is visiting.

And her unusual patterns certainly seem to have flagged itself to the Immigration Officer, hence their chat with her.

She may be able to return, but either way, her visits will be under scrutiny.

Do keep us posted if she returns successfully. That may give guidance to others on these forums who want their parents to visit for long periods of time.