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True Story

Archived UK Tier 1 (Post-Study Work) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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bex12
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True Story

Post by bex12 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:57 pm

CCL - Cambridge College of Learning- PGD

2 of my friend from a nation with name starting with P... you all know it by now. Anyway, their case is....

1. They are a fake, they paid for their PGD diploma (more than £2200 each of them).
2. They have got PSW in Sept. 2008 with Course finishing in June 2008.

They want to know what are their chances or situation now. One of them, he works for a reputable bank, name starting with B, in the country. He wants to apply for HSMP after expiry of his PSW in 2010. Plz reply:

1. Can they do so?
2. What information do they need to prove that they were a genuine student though they are not?
3. Will their HSMP application be successful, if HO agrees that their PSW is genuine though it is from CCL?

Thanks
Bex

danish1981
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Post by danish1981 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:13 pm

brother 1st of all PGD is not acpetable for HSMP or TIER 1 GENERAL,theyneec to show a bachelor /master or PHD degree to qualify for those points,so nothing to worry about.only ting they need todo is to show their degree.and they will be ok coz they got no concern with CCL pgd then.one of my freind(CCL student) is applying for his HSMP next month based on his undergraduate degree.so letc c

Honest Desi
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Post by Honest Desi » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:56 pm

Yes Danish is correct

bex12
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Hmm???

Post by bex12 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:37 pm

Thanks for your response my friend. But you know as my friends are on FAKE College certificates. They are concerned as they might be thrown out of country once the HO or UKBA curtailes all the PSW visas issued to all CCL students, weather or not they have studied or you know.

What should they do?

danish1981
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Post by danish1981 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:50 pm

unless and untill HO cant prove it that its fake or not they cant do anything about it,its still not decided about CCL college and students so its too early to say anything,HO need to prove it 100% without any doubt that all students of CCL were fake and there were no sessions over there to curtail the visas.its not so easy to do it.remeber you got rights in this country,in my opinion the maximum they gonna do it is they wont issue any more psw to CCL students.nothing more than that

UKBAbble
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Re: True Story

Post by UKBAbble » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:02 am

bex12 wrote:2. What information do they need to prove that they were a genuine student though they are not?

Surely you've just said they were not genuine so they can't honestly claim otherwise.

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Frontier Mole
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Post by Frontier Mole » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:37 am

Danish,
The balance of probability is the lowest standard of proof required in UK law. This is the level UKBA has to work to when considering the issue of a PSW visa. Both parties have to meet the same standard.
Someone putting forward a PGD or any other qualification has to provide additional evidence to substantiate the qualification. UKBA does not need to convince the AIT at appeal to the level of 100% to win it's case. It is not a criminal court where beyond all reasonable doubt has to be achieved.

So we have a student putting up a bit of paper from a bogus college claiming it is a genuine certificate against the might of the UKBA and the Met Police. Both of these org's will have reems of evidence to show that the college is bogus, issueing bogus qualifications for a sum of money. No study required.

Just the very number of fake certificates blows any genuine claim out of the water. There were hundreds and hundreds of certificates issued in the scam. It was not just the students trying to scam the UKBA, the college operators were scamming the students in the first place. They knew they were on a limited return, they knew they had to get as many certificates sold in the shortest period of time to maximise their fraud, they knew UKBA would be on their tail at some point. Not quite as soon as they expected or they would have closed up shop and disappeared long ago. They were stupid and way too greedy, that is what got them caught.

So we are down to the balance of probability - 51% in favour of the UKBA version of events and then it is bye bye appeal. Attached to that comes the deception now verified by the AIT. Bye bye any future hope of entry to the UK for 10 years.

This is not rocket science.

As for those early PGD visa successes from CCL, it is a wait and see game. My bet as stated before is that they will be curtailed, with an expectation of appeal. You already know what my view is on the chance of success is at appeal.

PEACE MAKER
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Post by PEACE MAKER » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:59 pm

Mr. FM

I have red your comments and saw you smiling on others. Don't you think British Government is also responsible for this, DIUS is maintaining a register for colleges approved by them and students are allowed and encouraged to get admissions in those colleges. students come to this country they pay big amounts in terms of fees and other charges their parents bear their living expenses, even some of the students work here for 20 hours.

Inspite of their hard work when they pass that qualification, home office turns that qualification in to a piece of paper by calling that college bogus, and allow people like you to laugh on them.

I don't know what is the process of DIUS to get an institute registered with them and why after shutting down an institute they don't accept their negligence and why they are not being penalized.

Don't you think that British Government should impose a ban on all colleges that they can not offer admission to international students and only universities should be allowed. But I know it is not possible because this is a big source of money for this country.

At the end i will request everyone not to pay to buy any degree but do work hard to achieve it. This give you a sense of achievement which lives with you till death.

Honest Desi
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Post by Honest Desi » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:18 pm

People dont worry ..about Frontier Mole ,,,,

He is sick in head

NO DECISIONS ARE YET MADE .

AIT is the DAD of of HO, when is come to decisions and all factors will be taken in consideration .

HO is worried about these legal issues that is why they are still holding and considering .

Shame on Frontier Mole .

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Frontier Mole
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Post by Frontier Mole » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:25 am

PEACE MAKER wrote:Mr. FM

I have red your comments and saw you smiling on others. Don't you think British Government is also responsible for this, DIUS is maintaining a register for colleges approved by them and students are allowed and encouraged to get admissions in those colleges. students come to this country they pay big amounts in terms of fees and other charges their parents bear their living expenses, even some of the students work here for 20 hours.

Inspite of their hard work when they pass that qualification, home office turns that qualification in to a piece of paper by calling that college bogus, and allow people like you to laugh on them.

I don't know what is the process of DIUS to get an institute registered with them and why after shutting down an institute they don't accept their negligence and why they are not being penalized.

Don't you think that British Government should impose a ban on all colleges that they can not offer admission to international students and only universities should be allowed. But I know it is not possible because this is a big source of money for this country.

At the end i will request everyone not to pay to buy any degree but do work hard to achieve it. This give you a sense of achievement which lives with you till death.
I did a post on this very query - can't find it - might be part of the sin binned post from Desi.

It comes down to a number of points

DIUS - read what it says about its own register - no guarantee of quality or competence. Why is that? To many educational establishments, not enough staff to visit them all and little in the way of enforcement action even when they find problems.

Split the two parts of the bogus equation. Bogus college and bogus qualification.

A bogus college has no intention of supplying teaching at any level. Students enrol, in the main, knowing it is or was a route to the UK to work and gain financially. Students are allowed to work, so can legally earn money. Many employers especially in the low paid sectors are / were happy to employ "students" to fill their vacancies. The employers were complicate with the students and happily even gave them full time contracts.

A bogus qualification is fraud, committed by the educational establishment and the student. BOTH knowingly enter into the fraud. The college takes the money and the student gets a bit of paper. There is no study or course work. It is a straight financial transaction designed solely to deceive. What the "student" does with the bit of paper is yet another fraud. They hold it out as being a true document for their own gain. In the case of PSW applicants - to gain two years in the UK where they are allowed to work full time - every hour their God sends them. It is a ticket to earn, nothing more.

Some bogus colleges issued bogus qualifications - this is where the ultimate abuse happens. In the case of CCL the college operators were so greedy that they issued hundreds of fake qualifications and operated a bogus college where all but a handful of students actually studied.

So who is who in this set of circumstances?

You might notice the total lack of genuine students posting the horror story of being caught up in the middle of this scam and losing out. That speaks volumes in itself.

You see lots of students worried about their future and the lack of a PSW visa. Some even state they have paid for the fake qualification on other forums. These are the people that knew what they were doing and planned to use the fake qualification for their own gain.

The UK Government - UK plc gets about £16 billion a year out of international students. So it is not a small amount of money the UK can readily turn away. The vast majority of international students are here to gain real qualifications from real educational establishments. UK plc does not want to become known for bogus education as it devalues the high regard our higher education has in the world market place.

The educational registers - a grand body of bodies. Mostly without any meaningful powers. They attend or review educational establishments and grant accreditation. One of two were truly awful - send us the cheque we will send the accreditation. So there was wide spread abuse. This has lead to the current position where only DIUS is the accepted register. For international students this will be overtaken by the tier 4 PBS licence that will be required from next year.

A Dickens history of international student education and the UKBA

UKBA Past – not the total good guys by any means. Not enough resources, a total disregard for anything other than failed asylum seekers, a general acceptance there was too many bogus educational establishments but little being done to combat it, disjointed data collection and like any good affairs the bride was always the last one to know when the good guys turned out to be bad guys.

UKBA Now – getting better but room for improvement. Introduction of PBS has highlighted the issues we always knew were there. This time the resources and the will are in place to tackle the problem. The problem has turned out to be even bigger than we thought. Years of poor system policing have taken their toll; there are hundreds of bogus educational establishments. The new data collection shows them up like lighthouses shining on a clear night. Hence we have a few notable closures in quick succession. Other abuses are now showing through and the educational foundations in the UK are starting to creak. There are abuse trends across a far greater slice of the “traditionalâ€

rizwan567
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Post by rizwan567 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:36 pm

Instead of shouting, guys, come up with some proper counter argument against the last post.

Could anyone of you please highlight the post or thread where FM has claimed to be working for the Home Office?

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Post by Frontier Mole » Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:01 pm

No need to find where I claimed to work for UKBA - I have been open about it for months and months.
Our departed friend Desi - argued the point that I am not from the UKBA - but that thread has been sin binned.

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