NEW BILL

[adviceseeker]

I have read that the new bill will be introduce by January 2009..My question is, will people that already have ILR(permanent residency) will be affected with this new rules? or this only affect to someone that still hasnt got one?

Just a bit confused because they are not talking to someone that already have ILR.

Thank you.

[sakura]

I have read that the new bill will be introduce by January 2009..My question is, will people that already have ILR(permanent residency) will be affected with this new rules? or this only affect to someone that still hasnt got one?

Just a bit confused because they are not talking to someone that already have ILR.

Thank you.

Many people have been asking this question. Please use the search function, as there is already a thread started only a few weeks ago on this very issue.

[adviceseeker]

thanks Sakura I was looking for that but sad to say I coudnt find it.

[sakura]

thanks Sakura I was looking for that but sad to say I coudnt find it.

This thread and this one both talk about the bill timeline (with links).

This thread is a discussion on probationary citizenship. As is this thread.

This thread is a long discussion about the Bill and general immigration policy updates for interested/concerned persons.

[adviceseeker]

Thanks again Sakura, the best thing for me to do is to wait till February 2009 and see what happens because as of now there isnt any clear answer its all guess and if you always think about it, it will just give you a bad headache..


Thanks

[rizwan_ali]

I have read that the new bill will be introduce by January 2009..My question is, will people that already have ILR(permanent residency) will be affected with this new rules? or this only affect to someone that still hasnt got one?

Just a bit confused because they are not talking to someone that already have ILR.

Thank you.

If u look at the draft bill its clearly mentioned ILR /PR will be issued after the probation period residecny and Probation citizen is time limit but ILR/PR are no time limit they can swicth into British Citizeship later dates. The only differnce is usuly people gets ILR after tmeporary residency but now people will qulify for ILR/PR/BC after probation citizenship period. So basicaly u dont need to worry becase u wont go back to probation period coz you already have no time limt residency which cant be revoked once its issued untill you committ some serious crime.

Hope this info will remove ur headach but still not confirmation from the home office if this will affect than i think person who already have BC will go back to probaion citizen period which is not possible.

[JAJ]

As of end-December 2008

What we know about the Bill

- Should be introduced January 2009.
- Likely to be passed in late 2009
- Overall, time periods for permanent residence and British citizenship are likely to be longer.
- "Probationary citizenship" (the name might be changed) will be a form of temporary residence.
- The Bill will not affect the entitlement to permanent residence those entering under the EEA rules (but may affect the time for British citizenship).
- Some parts of the Act may be implemented only in 2010 or later.
- Many elements will be implemented by Regulations after the Bill becomes an Act, not part of the Act itself.
- It should allow pre-1961 children of British mothers to register as British citizens.


What we don't know about the Bill (so pointless to keep asking)

- What transitional arrangements will be in place for those with temporary status.
- Whether those with ILR today will transition to "probationary citizenship" or permanent residence.
- What happens to those with Right of Abode.
- Whether applications for naturalisation pending at commencement of the new rules will be affected or not by the longer waiting time.
- Whether any transition period will be given to those ILR holders not yet eligible for naturalisation to apply under existing rules.
- What changes will come to specific visas, eg Ancestry or Returning Resident
- What other changes will be made to the citizenship laws, if any.

[dnicky]

That is great JAJ.

It pretty much sums up known facts and the unknowns.

[John]

I agree, great summing up! I have bookmarked this topic ... thanks JAJ.

[vinny]

Government's new bill shakes up the route to citizenship

[Chess]

Government's new bill shakes up the route to citizenship

I dont know if anyone has read the bill in more details. It states that you must not be out of the country for more than 90 days for each of the qualifying years for citizenship/residence

this seems to be a new rule!

[rg1]

From other thread

Citizenship bill January 2009

New bill implementation date mentioned as : December 2010

[Chess]

From other thread

Citizenship bill January 2009

New bill implementation date mentioned as : December 2010

That was purely for the 'theoretical' impact assessment. The new Bill will be speedly passed through and applicable by the end of this year!

[John]

The new Bill will be speedly passed through and applicable by the end of this year!

I agree that it will be applicable by the end of the year. However I don't think that the Government will have a particularly easy ride with this Bill. It has started life in the House of Lords and no doubt lots of technical amendments will be passed there, and also some more substantive ones, even before it gets to the Commons.

[optimist]

I just read a clause in the impact assessment paper and it has a caluse which say this , so probably it's my guess that the ILR people would be left as they are..

"on the date of the application for naturalisation, must have either probationary
citizenship leave, permanent residence leave, a Commonwealth right of abode,
or a permanent EEA entitlement (as defined in new paragraph 11 of Schedule 1
to the BNA 1981 which is inserted by clause 45(3));"

reference :
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

[msk1978]

What a shame that there is no transitional arrangement or a single word for the people who are currently in the system. I read in the Govt response to public comments for Green Paper of this citizenship changes that Govt will pay special attention to concerns for the people already in the system but the bill looks like ruthless for the exisiting people under work permit, tier 1 etc. When i entered the country was eligible for ILR in Sept 09 (this year) and i made my self convinced that ok Sept 2010 wont kill me but now it looks like making it near to impossible.... what an injustice and state of confusion about future while we are already in great trouble due to this recession (like risk of losing our jobs and difficulty which people are facing to get new jobs). The impact assessment says that net benefit of all the changes would be around £16m only.

[John]

What a shame that there is no transitional arrangement or a single word for the people who are currently in the system.

You jest surely! I think you need to have a more careful read.

[UKbound]

Hi John -

Perhaps you can clarify. I've read the bill but can't find any transitional arrangements that would indicate that those not already with ILR would be subject to the rules in place before the change.

I know they've been saying in the papers that it's for those newly arriving, but I can't find any indication of that within the bill or notes themselves. Happy to be corrected, though.

[Jk2007]

In the proposal for this bill, it appears assumed that the "Probtaionary Citizens" are expected to volunteer about 12 hours per year..

What is not assumed is, the time the migrant needs to spend to find this "volunteering" work. Most importantly, after doing this volunteering work, one has to get a reference from the authority for having carried out these volunteering work. It will be quite embarassing at the end, if the authority finds that you have done this volunteering work with the expectation for reference... And what if the authority after your one year of (1hr/month) volunteering refuses to provide a clear reference. What wordings are required here.. For example, merely being a member of parents-teacher association may not be enough, whta you have actually contributed matters. It looks like this is going to be very difficult.

Imagine that you are contracting self employment work far away from your home, how can you do an hour's work without being away from your work for the whole day..

[John]

It will be quite embarassing at the end, if the authority finds that you have done this volunteering work with the expectation for reference.

Sorry, I totally disagree! Knowing what I do about the way the voluntary sector works I have a strong suspicion that there already are those in the voluntary sector who will be planning to organise themselves specifically to utilise all this "free labour" that is going to become available ..... and will be advertising their availability and making it very clear that a reference will be available on completion of the alloted number of hours.

Imagine that you are contracting self employment work far away from your home, how can you do an hour's work without being away from your work for the whole day.

Easy! Do the voluntary work at the weekends! Something no doubt the voluntary organisations alluded to above will take into account.

[Jk2007]

there already are those in the voluntary sector who will be planning to organise themselves specifically to utilise all this "free labour" that is going to become available ..... and will be advertising their availability and making it very clear that a reference will be available on completion of the alloted number of hours.

Thanks John. This is comforting!

[Jk2007]

The new bill says that after one year of probationary citizenship one can apply for citizenship. And those who want to take PR should spend 3 years of probationary citizenship.

Question: When probationary citizenship is issued, will it be issued for 3 years or issued for one year to be renewed annually?

[rizwan_ali]

The new bill says that after one year of probationary citizenship one can apply for citizenship. And those who want to take PR should spend 3 years of probationary citizenship.

Question: When probationary citizenship is issued, will it be issued for 3 years or issued for one year to be renewed annually?

well not realy clear about that but ofcourse if some one want to take PR then he/she need to renew it once its get about to expire in order to main the stay. but its intersting question for knowledge many things not clear in the bill there will be debate on it in the hose of common and then house of lords these matters will appear and might some changes will occure in the bill( techniqally correction )

[Jk2007]

I am sorry to be sounding negative, the bill appears to be introducing too much uncertainty in the migrants life:

- Stay upto 8 years (even if you have obeyed the law and not violated any rules, paid taxes, and remained in employment) to qualify for Permanent Residency / Citizenship

- Be prepared to live without NHS care until obtaining citizenship. (It is not clear now whether NHS will be removed from the list of benefits for temporary residents. Private medical care is very expensive in this country. A visit to a hospital and one week stay there may drain your entire year's savings. Private medical insurance, again has expensive premium, appears to be the only option)

- Pay overseas fees (not local fees) for children's higher education (about £8000 PER YEAR per child).

- Pay additional levy in the Visa fees for creating a fund

- Remain in employment during the entire period or atleast for the 12 months of last 15 months period. (With only one or two years leave remaining in your Visa, it is often difficult to get any stable job. The first question the recruiter asks is: How much is the period left in your Visa? It is hard to convince a recruiter that your visa is extendable and you are eligible for permanent jobs. So jobs you are likely to get are those that cannot be filled with British citizens or permanent residents.)

- Go through points based system for each extension of visa until you get settlement?

- Do voluntary work / community services (Scoring on this point may become a problem unless clear objective measurement criteria and certifying authority are specified)

Go through all the above even while paying all the taxes as being paid by citizens and at the same time without recourse to public funds (meaning in case of any economic difficulty due to deep recession, survive on your own).

Please also note that it has been stated that Government may raise or lower the bar to limit the number of migrants settling in this country depending on the requirements and local unemployment situations. The unemployment figure in Britain is record high now, and it is expected that over 3 million or about 10% of the workforce will be jobless during 2009. So there is no guarantee that settlement period will not be extended again, and there is no guarantee that no additional hurdles will be introduced, just before you qualify for citizenship. There has been several revisions within the last 3 years. (Settlement period extended from 4 years to 5 years to 6 years and upto 8 years now). If they keep on extending the qualifying period, your active life as citizen is going to be reduced. For instance, if you are 40, and they make the qualifying period as 10 years, you hardly have 10 years of working life as citizen.

Also note that even if you get citizenship, this does not give automatic citizenship / PR rights to your dependents. They have to earn the citizenship/PR in their own right. If after 7 to 8 years of staying here, if some tragedy strikes and you die, then your family will have to leave the country unless they have obtained PR / Citizenship in their own right.

[bototo]

Jk2007, I fail to comprehend your problem with the volunteering provisions. Learning the language, making friends here, contibuting to your local community and getting familiar with local customs should all be part of an immigrant's efforts even without any statutory incentives. I've helped at soup Spam, been a PTA committee member from the first day my first child started school and done other charity work. A lot of charity work can be done even from the comfort of your home! And we're talking just 12 hours a year! I'm sorry, I don't have sympathy for any immigrant who feels that this is too much to ask.

merely being a member of parents-teacher association may not be enough, whta you have actually contributed matters.

If they are not trying to contribute and are just there for the 12 hour certificate I'll personally be happy for them to fail in their application.

BTW, every parent is automatically a member of the PTA by definition. Some work on the committee, some contibute in other ways like helping at events and there are some who do nothing at all.

I'm sad that the government has to make it "compulsory" but I'm delighted they are doing this.

I do appreciate your last post though. You make some very good and well argued points. It should be required reading for all those involved in the process of preparing and pushing the bill through.