Revoked Stamp4eufam and A.K.S. & Ors v Minister for Justice & Ors

[nedmanai]

I said i'd start this thread here as it will potentially help many cases out there.

I held a Stamp4Eufam in 2015 valid to 2020. Half of this stamp was revoked in 2021 when I informed the department that my ex has left the state in 2017. I was eventually granted a Stamp1 under the chenchouliah case following many letters and documents . They revoked my Stamp starting from when my ex left and no longer exercising her treaty rights in the state.

Now the A.K.S. & Ors v Minister for Justice case, (To my understanding) gives those whom Stamp 4eufam revoked the right to consider the non reckonable period of time previously cancelled (2017 to 2020 in my case) to become reckonable. this is due to the directive's present tense wording.. meaning the department can only revoke the stamp starting from when the issue arises and not from when they believe you're no longer a beneficial from a past date.

Any experiences? details? I know couple of people applying earlier. They were contacted by their solicitors who dealt with their previous retention/chenchouliah cases in the past.

PS: I have enough reckonable residency to apply without using this. I would have applied a year earlier if i have realized this ruling was out. A friend of mine was talking about his solicitor explaining this to him.

[iceice855]

I have read the judgment in AKS and UM and this seems to be my understanding but my lawyers are still there battling my review process regarding the revocation of my previous EU Fam. My EU fam was revoked in its entirety even though I was no longer on EU Fam and now my Citizenship application is over two years now, I did e Vetting In November and still don't know what's going on. Recently the review department sent a letter requesting for more documents, I don't know why this is still a case if the AKS and UM judgment have almost kind of invalidate the revocation in the first place.

[iceice855]

I have read the judgment in AKS and UM and this seems to be my understanding but my lawyers are still there battling my review process regarding the revocation of my previous EU Fam. My EU fam was revoked in its entirety even though I was no longer on EU Fam and now my Citizenship application is over two years now, I did e Vetting In November and still don't know what's going on. Recently the review department sent a letter requesting for more documents, I don't know why this is still a case if the AKS and UM judgment have almost kind of invalidate the revocation in the first place.

[nedmanai]

Thank you for your response @iceice855.
were you given a Stamp based on Chenchouliah /other cases or was it a whole different application out of the Directive rules?
The law case is clear but it usually takes few months to a year to come up with a clear process to be implemented within the department.
I know two people currently gathering their documents to apply for citizenship based on this ruling and advised by their solicitors..

[nedmanai]

Thank you for your response @iceice855.
were you given a Stamp based on Chenchouliah /other cases or was it a whole different application out of the Directive rules?
The law case is clear but it usually takes few months to a year to come up with a clear process to be implemented within the department.
I know two people currently gathering their documents to apply for citizenship based on this ruling and advised by their solicitors..

[iceice855]

I got stamp4eufam in 2016, by 2021 I informed the department of breakdown in my relationship. I have a son from another woman whom I then applied for his Irish passport based on my residency in Ireland, his passport was issued in March 2022, I then switched from eufam to parents of Irish Citizen. But I had already submitted my citizenship application in January 2021, so as we speak I'm currently on a different stamp4 not based on Treaty Rights. But for some reason department revoked my 5 years EU fam on the basis that my EU citizen partner was not exercising Treaty Rights when they issued my residency in 2016 which is nonsense. The case is currently under review but I did my Vetting with citizenship last November and I'm trying to understand how the AKS or UM cases are applied in these instances.

[nedmanai]

They did not reject your application for Naturalization and moved to the next stage! They're probably waiting on the review's outcome. Technically speaking, I'd say they're aware of the AKS case and the unlawfulness of the revocation but it still a grey area where they don't have a procedure yet. Same happened to those who fell under Chenchooliah, until they figured out a procedure.

In my case, they revoked half of my stamp based on my ex's departure year and Month. I have since been issued another stamp not based on EUTR. Applied for my naturalization and included one of the revoked years (The one cut in half) despite having enough reckonable residency. Let's see.

[iceice855]

If there is a judgement of the court, that will be the current position of law. My son Irish citizenship is tied to my reckonable residence, the UM and AKS judgement were very clear in cased where revocation could have a retrospective effect on others who have benefited from the reckonable residence period. I don't think they need a procedure for this, they should simply follow the law and stop the revocation all together. The UM case, though was for refugee status being revoked, it state that revocation should start from the the revocation was initiated. In my case I was no longer under any EU Treaty Rights permit anymore and there was absolutely no need for revocation in these instances

[iceice855]

Final decision came in and revocation has been step aside, my 5 yrs residency has been confirmed. Now unto citizenship. Just want to update here.

[nedmanai]

Final decision came in and revocation has been step aside, my 5 yrs residency has been confirmed. Now unto citizenship. Just want to update here.

Thanks a million for the update man! Happy days! I hope you hear soon from the Citizenship dep /
I'd say get on to them since your case exceeded the 19 months due to the department's delays.

[finalversion_2k]

Final decision came in and revocation has been step aside, my 5 yrs residency has been confirmed. Now unto citizenship. Just want to update here.

your case looks almost similar as mine. I was on Stamp4EUfam valid till 2020. 2019 relationshit with EU end and I applied for retention of rights. then also in 2020 december I applied citizenship.

then my ROR was refused and was told my stamp revoked, then solicitor submit appeal. this was also refused with no solid grounds. then my solicitor put review on deciscion. since 2021 I'm waiting for retention review application.

Now this year my solictor sent 2 week warning letter to citizenship department and they mentioned my application is in process with EU treaty. Then solicitor sent letter to EU treaty department but no response from them. now solicitor asking to bring EU treaty to the court. I'll really appreciate suggestion and opinions on below.



@iceice855 : your revocation is step aside by court or department send letter?

does this worth to pay solicitor 800 euros more and bring EU treaty to the court? as I'm tired of solicitors already paaid around 6k to 7k for retention and citizenship and appeals bla bla.. (Note: I don't have visa issues, I work in IT and since 2021 I'm on critical skills.)

Assume if bring to the court how much time court will takes AND if not bring to court then what should be the best course.

[iceice855]

@ finalversion_2k , in my case it was the department that sent a letter that the revokation was step aside through review. I was no longer with eutr anymore as i have stamp4 from my irish born child. I was challenging the decision as it was going to affect my citizenship application. By current law the department cannot longer revoke your residence that you already accumulated from years back. So just tell your lawyer to continue pressuring the eutr department to make a decision on your revokation case. They will come to same conclusion as mine.

[finalversion_2k]

I was no longer with eutr anymore as i have stamp4 from my irish born child.

@iceice855 Yah I'm also on critical skill stamp 4 and EUTR chapter closed long time ago since 2021.

I was challenging the decision as it was going to affect my citizenship application.

when you say challenging, does that mean challlenging in court??

[finalversion_2k]

@ finalversion_2k , in my case it was the department that sent a letter that the revokation was step aside through review.

And how much time review took for you,(number of years) ?

will really appreciate reply for above, this will make me able to decide, should I bring them to court or not. thanks.

[iceice855]

@finalveesion_2k my review process took one year, you can chose to ignore them and submit your application for citizenship and see how it goes , i would prefer you follow it to a conclusion with a proof to say your revocation has beed set aside just like mine. Maybe you could write to eutr by yourself to demand for responce, money is not easy like that that to be spending on an immigration matter. Just tell your lawyer that you are aware of the um and aks cases and that he should write them to request a decision asap. There's nothing ti worry about here as your residency can not be revoke ab initio. They can revoke what you have but not what you had.

[Jeeta]

Hello friends, I got my Stamp 4EUFAM in 2011, my wife left Ireland in 2015 and my 5 year residence expired in 2016. I was very worried and scared that if I go to immigration I would be deported and I didnt had any money left to go to a solicitor as I lost my job as well because of no visa. And on top I was not aware of any new laws came into existance which protects family members of EU citizen after marriage break down.
And now I have recieved stamp 1 this year in January. Can anybody help if I would be eligible for citizenship or not? Thanks

[meself2]

Hello friends, I got my Stamp 4EUFAM in 2011, my wife left Ireland in 2015 and my 5 year residence expired in 2016. I was very worried and scared that if I go to immigration I would be deported and I didnt had any money left to go to a solicitor as I lost my job as well because of no visa. And on top I was not aware of any new laws came into existance which protects family members of EU citizen after marriage break down.
And now I have recieved stamp 1 this year in January. Can anybody help if I would be eligible for citizenship or not? Thanks

It's 5 years out of last 9 that you need to rack up for citizenship, so your old residence doesn't count. Get 5 years of residence anew.

[Jeeta]

Thanks meself2.
As I mentioned in my previous post that I have stamp1 under Chenchooliah for a year. So after or during this time would I be granted stamp 1 again or stamp 4? And Stamp 1 which I have now has a condition that I cannot bring any of my family members to Ireland so when I get my next stamp (1 or 4), would that stamp have this condition again?

[jfranco]

Hi guys,

I have a question.
I held a Stamp 4EUFam for about an year, but then that relationship ended. I ended up having to return my IRP and the immigration officer stamped a "cancelled without prejudice" over my stamp on my passport. Then I left Ireland and returned to my home country.

The department sent a letter to my house in my home country saying that they were not fully satisfied with justifications and were also satisfied that my residence at that time was granted through fraud and deception (which I never challenged).

Shortly after that (one month, max), I was granted a Critical Skills Employment Permit and returned to Ireland. I was granted a Stamp 1, which I renewed, and then was granted a Stamp 4 based on critical skills, which I already renewed.

In December I will complete 5 years of residency since I returned to Ireland on a Stamp 1.


Can I ask your advice on how should I approach my application to citizenship? Should I completely ignore what happened before and say that I arrived in Ireland when I got my Employment Permit or should I tell the whole story?

The online form has these two questions:

Have you ever committed any offences against the laws of Ireland or any overseas country?
Have you ever defrauded any person, company or State agency for financial or other gain?


I assume that saying yes to them is very much a instant refusal to my application.. not sure of what to do.

I have been nothing but a good citizen, with stable jobs and (I know this doesn't matter) earning excellent salaries. I am super anxious about this application, this is the true.

Any advice?

Thank you so much!

[iceice855]

To @jfranco the time you spent on stamp 4 eufam before you return to your home country is still valid for rekonable residrnce according to recent court jugdemnet. You do not answer yes to any question that had to do with conviction, to be convicted yiu have to be before a jugde in the court of law. Just because the department sent you a letter to state fraud does not make you a convict, if not you would not be issued the visa to return back to ireland. Go ahead and submit your application for natutalization with some explanation regards to your immigration history in the country and i think you should be fine with it.

[frmenino88]

Hello. Similar situation here. Please, need an advice. I am Brazilian woman who married EU citizen in October 2022 (1 year and 7 months). I got my Stamp4 EUFAM last August(10 months) granted for 5 years. The things are not going well. We are not together anymore and he has moved to live in another house.
My questions are:
1.What will happen if we don´t divorce till my Stamp expire, will I can renew it without him?
2.What will happen If he files for divorce?
3.What will happen if he inform the immigration that the relationships is broken down, we are separated and we don´t live together anymore?
Can he make anything to revoke my resident permission before it´s expired itself?
I don´t have any of his documents and we did not have bank accounts together.
Other thing, we got married in Denmark, can he divorce me from there faster than in Ireland as here we need to be separated for 2 years fist before we can divorce?

Thank you in advance for any help.

[finalversion_2k]

@finalveesion_2k my review process took one year, you can chose to ignore them and submit your application for citizenship and see how it goes , i would prefer you follow it to a conclusion with a proof to say your revocation has beed set aside just like mine. Maybe you could write to eutr by yourself to demand for responce, money is not easy like that that to be spending on an immigration matter. Just tell your lawyer that you are aware of the um and aks cases and that he should write them to request a decision asap. There's nothing ti worry about here as your residency can not be revoke ab initio. They can revoke what you have but not what you had.

@iceice855 any good news on your citizenship application?

My solicior sent them couple of emails for decision but they didn't resopnd. and now solicitor send them warning letter of 21 days to respond ELSE court proceeding will start. what are your thoughts on this? do you think they will respond OR this will drag to court? and if so how much time court will take then?

[iceice855]

@finalversion_2k my citizenship was approved on april 29 and i attended the citizenship ceremony on 20th june in Dublin. Anyone out there who had their residency revoked from the past can still use those years towards citizenship application. I have told a friend of mine this and he was able to apply for hid two kids irish passports based on his previuos revoked residency.

[finalversion_2k]

@finalversion_2k my citizenship was approved on april 29 and i attended the citizenship ceremony on 20th june in Dublin. Anyone out there who had their residency revoked from the past can still use those years towards citizenship application. I have told a friend of mine this and he was able to apply for hid two kids irish passports based on his previuos revoked residency.

congratulation @iceice855 so happy to hear that. finallyyyy light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm just waiting for EU treaty to respond and gve any decscion. hopefully 21 days warning letter will help.

[nedmanai]

I applied 4 months ago. My application is accepted and currently in the vetting procedures.
I did not contact the EUTR nor explained it. I think they're aware at this stage. But i'd suppose attaching an explanation won't harm either. You'd know if you need a good explanation, just make sure to mention the AKS judgement at the end